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Old 01-08-2014, 08:09 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Munchak is going to come to here to serve under Loggains immediately after being his boss. I am very intrigued by Loggains but I don't know if it's because he's a fresh face or because I just want to see fewer option routes. I guess they kind of go hand in hand though.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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Can someone please give Perry Fewell a head coaching job?
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Can someone please give Perry Fewell a head coaching job?
He only had one interview and that's because the the Redskins interviewed every coordinator in the NFL. He's getting signed back.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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I hate Perry more than I hated Gilbride. I learned to eventually accept Gilbride (he was bad but he wasn't as bad as we make him out to be).

Perry on the other hand...seeing his blitzes makes me sick.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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The frustrating thing about option routes is, looking at it as a fan who understands coverages I totally get why you want to run option routes. If you have a brain, it's incredibly advantageous to the offense if you run it properly. It's almost impossible to stop.

Because every coverage has an answer. If you read it right, you'll get open. It deemphasizes athleticism and uses scheme to create advantages. Option route offenses will destroy zone defense if run properly. And you can use the inherit flaws of man coverage against itself with rub routes and man coverage beaters as well.

The problem is, our WRs are just stupid. That's why it's been a failure here for the most part. If you look at the gold standard of the option route, its the New England Patriots.

The Patriots basically run a similar variation of our offense. But notice something about them? They have a very low success rate with drafted WRs. Why? Bc the system is just too damn complicated. But look at who has success in their system? It's not necessarily the guys who are athletic, it's the polished route runners who are smart and can dissect a defense.

And that's how they can consistently be a top offense in the league with little talent on the edges. Bc they scheme guys open but they're also smart enough to use guys who may be less athletic but smart enough to run the right routes.

Take this year for example. Brady was forced to play with rookies on the outside who don't get the system. And what happens? He has the worst year he's had in awhile.

That's what we have been doing with Eli with these option routes for most of his career. We're putting square pegs in round holes on the outside and we expect it to work.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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The best thing that I'm getting from all this is that Gilbride acknowledged how bad the o line was. MEANING the giants should be aware of it as well MEANING it's going to be our top priority in the offseason. Doesn't matter what play is being called if we can't preform on the field and block for said play.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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Perry's not as bad as we make him out to be also but definitely not good and yes the blitzes are to the D as the option routes were to the O. Sickening.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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It helped Brady had Gronk and Hernandez. The revolving door at our TE spot sucks.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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Yeah to be fair though Brady didn't have Gronk for most of this year either. The system works. I do believe in Gilbride's system. We just don't draft properly for it.

I think a new system that's simpler would lead to a significant improvement for our offense simply because it would eliminate a lot of disconnect btw Reese's drafts and the coaching staff's schemes.

I feel like on both sides of the ball Reese drafts for one scheme and the coaches play them in another scheme.

We draft man coverage CBs and run mainly Cover 2. We de-emphasize the LB position but run a Cover 2 that's heavily reliant on linebacker play. We draft big DTs who clog running lanes but run a Cover 2 that thrives with a pass rushing 3 tech in the middle of the DL.

The whole misuse of our talent plays a major role in our inconsistency as well.

4 weeks ago we would pencil Jernigan in as a surefire Jerry Reese middle round miss. Do we still feel that way? Who knows how many other guys couldve gave us something if they just got a chance?

It's just frustrating.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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I hate Perry more than I hated Gilbride. I learned to eventually accept Gilbride (he was bad but he wasn't as bad as we make him out to be).

Perry on the other hand...seeing his blitzes makes me sick.

That's debatable. Gilbride did a lot of good things, but that sight adjustment issue is very bad. Your franchise QB since 2004 leads the NFL in Ints in this system. Now, is our QB that bad? I don't think so, but in this system, which is a BOOM or BUST system, bad things always fall into the QB's stat column.

That was the biggest issue. Red zone issues, and how everything is always 5 or 7 step passing concepts. Finally after we were 0-4 or 0-5 we saw adjustments via 3 step drops. It took that long for them to realize we are buggered and can't run our usually offense.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 3m
There you have it from Victor Cruz. Giants season fell apart, at least early on, cuz Cruz wanted $ and Nicks protecting himself for $.

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 8m
Cruz on OTAs: "100 percent I will be ready to go."

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 8m
"...to get him on the field." Added that Jernigan did "prove himself" down stretch this season.

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 8m
Victor, can you fit with Jerrel Jernigan? "I don't know. I don't know. It would just have to be some personnel stuff we would have to do..."

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 9m
FYI: I said months ago, when Giants were in camp and Cruz/Nicks absent that consistency would wreck this teams sync.

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 12m
Is it me, or did Victor Cruz take a shot at the media? @TomRock_Newsday @ConorTOrr

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 14m
Victor Cruz on Sully: "We just need a refreshing face, someone that we are all comfortable with."

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 24m
Victor Cruz's Super Bowl pick: Denver over Seattle.

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 28m
Cruz said he has started doing some light weight exercises. Not expecting to miss any offseason workout time

Ebenezer Samuel & #8207;@ebenezersamuel 29m
Cruz plans to shoot Sullivan a text later.

Conor Orr & #8207;@ConorTOrr 31m
Cruz said he's following Nicks, OC situations closely, but doesn't expect #giants to ask for his input. Doesn't think they need to.

Tom Rock & #8207;@TomRock_Newsday 35m
At Xbox1 event, Victor Cruz says he hopes Mike Sullivan gets OC job.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Munchak is going to come to here to serve under Loggains immediately after being his boss. I am very intrigued by Loggains but I don't know if it's because he's a fresh face or because I just want to see fewer option routes. I guess they kind of go hand in hand though.
Munchak has already said that he is unlikely to get a head coaching job

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“I know the chance of me being a head coach again in the NFL aren’t that great,” Munchak said. “Most guys get one shot at it.”
Munchak is likely to get a job as a (highly coveted) head coach.

Munchack and Loggains are close, Munchak actually took Loggains with him to his HC interview with the Lions.

The other factor here is that if Munchak wants to be head coach here, he can audition to be Coughlin's eventual replacement.

As I discussed in the earlier post, Bruce Matthews could also be in the mix
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 12m
"Whether it was Rueben, Hakeem, this isn’t pointing finger at anyone, but play we got from outside wasn’t what we’re accustomed to having."

Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday 13m
Cruz agreed with Gilbride's assessment of outside WR play ...
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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The best thing that I'm getting from all this is that Gilbride acknowledged how bad the o line was. MEANING the giants should be aware of it as well MEANING it's going to be our top priority in the offseason. Doesn't matter what play is being called if we can't preform on the field and block for said play.
Just note Scotty, top priority doesn't necessarily mean big name free agents or premium draft picks
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Cruz isn't really saying much we don't know. I disagree on the same system fresh face thing. He got PAID off this system though so I guess I'd say the same if I were him.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Cruz will be fine in any system though. Most systems have their slot running options anyway. It may not be as complex as our options but they still run options out of the slot.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Cruz isn't really saying much we don't know. I disagree but the same system fresh face. He got PAID off this system though so I guess I'd say the same if I were him.
That's what I said on BBI. If I am him, I'd say the same thing. This system made me productive, then famous, now rich. So everything is perfect for me. Why would a new system be needed? Maybe Cruz doesn't do well in another system. Maybe he does average and is no where near as productive or a home run hitter in another system.

So I am not surprised he said a new system is NOT needed. If I were him, and put myself in his shoes, I'd say the same thing.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Cruz will be fine in any system though. Most systems have their slot running options anyway. It may not be as complex as our options but they still run options out of the slot.
I'm not saying his numbers would drop but I understand why he thinks the system just needs a refresher. If it weren't for Gilbride then he may never have gotten paid all that money.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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By the way I always type terribly when at work so pardon that. I try to type as quick as possible and hardly ever double check anything.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Meh, what else can Cruz say? "Nah bro, thought the system was terribad and I want to move on from it."

I have always felt like Reese has drafted personnel that was different than our schemes, but honestly I always liked that he did. Who wants to waste picks on a Cover 2 corner when that guy would be screwed if we switched over to a man scheme. I really hope Reese gets to hire the HC he wants before we do something dumb like can him.

There have been SO many guys that have come in and I'd see glimpses of them but we just refused to play them. That's the thing that has always bothered me with Coughlin. While we see other teams letting rookies play and watching them dominate we pretty much red shirt every rookie or let them ride the bench. I think Scotty and I were one of the few supporters of JJ when he was picked but up until Cruz's injury we looked dead wrong about him.

It's a shame. Especially in a down year. Play all the young guys you can. Or in the years when our defense sucked. Why are we running the same line up out their? Try letting some young guys play. Or this year when our line sucked. We still wanted to run guys like Diehl out on the field.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Cruz will be fine in any system though. Most systems have their slot running options anyway. It may not be as complex as our options but they still run options out of the slot.
Fine is one thing. Highly productive, pro bowl level is another level. That's the productivity in question. That's what I would love to see. I don't think he would be that productive personally. This system churned out highly productive slot guys. Smith and Cruz, but interesting now that JJ became productive now too with consistent playing time without Cruz. Could it all of a sudden sank in? Sure, but now you saw the positive part of the system.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Difference between Cruz and Smith is top end speed and quickness in my opinion. Cruz has it, Smith didn't. I think Cruz would be great is another system, where as Smith was perfect for exactly what we ran.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Meh, what else can Cruz say? "Nah bro, thought the system was terribad and I want to move on from it."

I have always felt like Reese has drafted personnel that was different than our schemes, but honestly I always liked that he did. Who wants to waste picks on a Cover 2 corner when that guy would be screwed if we switched over to a man scheme. I really hope Reese gets to hire the HC he wants before we do something dumb like can him.

There have been SO many guys that have come in and I'd see glimpses of them but we just refused to play them. That's the thing that has always bothered me with Coughlin. While we see other teams letting rookies play and watching them dominate we pretty much red shirt every rookie or let them ride the bench. I think Scotty and I were one of the few supporters of JJ when he was picked but up until Cruz's injury we looked dead wrong about him.

It's a shame. Especially in a down year. Play all the young guys you can. Or in the years when our defense sucked. Why are we running the same line up out their? Try letting some young guys play. Or this year when our line sucked. We still wanted to run guys like Diehl out on the field.
I used to think Coughlin's methods were good bc slow development would reduce the number of busts, but that line of thinking was wrong.

I just don't get it. I'm sure Reese is frustrated about it too.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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With limited practice time now it's going to take even longer to develop younger players. You might as well just throw them into the fire almost immediately and hope they have enough talent to learn on the fly and still be productive.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Difference between Cruz and Smith is top end speed and quickness in my opinion. Cruz has it, Smith didn't. I think Cruz would be great is another system, where as Smith was perfect for exactly what we ran.
There were a lot of differences. Smith just settled for the 1st down. He would catch the ball and immediately go down. Cruz is always looking to score. Cruz had a lot of drops and usually that comes from looking downfield to run before you catch the ball. So the mentality of both players were different.

Speed and quickness, like you mentioned, was a difference as well. But I feel Smith was content with moving the chains and just going out of bounds or falling down after getting the 1st down. Cruz would never do that. In the cowboys game, he wouldn't go out of bounds and got stripped.

Both guys were total opposites in their play, in the same system, that yielded highly productive years. This coming for a franchise not known for pro bowl WRs. Yet in Gilbride's tenure we created 2 players.
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