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Old 03-05-2014, 12:54 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
Beatty-Asamoah-Boothe-Snee-Pugh

"grooming" Martin for when snee's gone. Or he starts over Snee.

late round project converted DT to center in the 5th round to be "groomed" for Boothe.

because Giants
This is painfully accurate.

I'm sad now.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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Would that really be that bad? Not really.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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Only thing we should be grooming are pets. Even QBs are plug and played now. Whoever we draft better start from day 1 especially on the OL. Snee even said he'd take a backup to be a mentor on that Sirius interview so that's a very good attitude he has.

If Martin is drafted, I hope he starts day 1. I'd let Boothe go. He was brought in as a backup who was versatile. I don't want him starting.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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a lot of people are talking about guards and potentially tackles for us, but the reality is, unless we're going with Cordle or keeping Baas/Boothe (ugh), we need a center. Badly
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I agree, you're right. I am going into this that we have 3 guys on offense that are key guys.

Eli, Pugh, and Cruz. Everyone else is a question mark and can be upgraded. On the OL specifically, you have Pugh as the guy you're building around. Every other position can be upgraded.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Yeah that's a concern of mine. We need a Center in the worst way, and all FA Centers seem either mediocre (outside of Mack) and/or will cost more then their worth, and the draft is pretty meh for centers.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Would that really be that bad? Not really.
It wouldn't be bad, but the defensive side in me is starting to want a defensive player in the 1st again.

This always happens to me. I always want to go defense in round 1.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Yeah that's a concern of mine. We need a Center in the worst way, and all FA Centers seem either mediocre (outside of Mack) and/or will cost more then their worth, and the draft is pretty meh for centers.
I think there are a couple guys we could grab at center. the kid from USC is pretty good, and there's a lot of hype surrounding Weston, the kid from like Colorado state or something.

Swanson's stock seemed to have dropped of late, but he wouldn't be an awful option, either, in the 3rd or so.

I'm fully in love with Gabe Jackson, the OG from miss. state, but I highly doubt he falls to our 2nd rounder
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 03-05-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Zach martin and then Jackson? That would be great if that happened.

Beatty-Jackson-Martin-Snee-Pugh

Martin-Jackson-Boothe-Snee-Pugh

Beatty-Mosley-Martin-Jackson-Pugh



Eh, that's not bad. Like you said I doubt that happens.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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You think Martin can play C? I thought he was a OT/G prospect? He's apparently a better version of Pugh. So if anything you'd move Pugh inside and put Martin on the outside.

Or bench Beatty, which I don't see happening bc of his contract.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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I also feel like massive changes in OL is going to hurt more then it helps, especially early in the season.
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Old 03-05-2014, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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You think Martin can play C? I thought he was a OT/G prospect? He's apparently a better version of Pugh. So if anything you'd move Pugh inside and put Martin on the outside.

Or bench Beatty, which I don't see happening bc of his contract.
He is supposed to be versatile and a better prospect than Pugh. There was talk that Pugh can play anywhere on the OL. RT, LT, any guard and even center. You don't move Pugh inside. Everyone keeps talking about that. The guy had a great rookie year and compared to the other OTs drafted he graded out very well.

I would not move him unless we load up on offensive linemen. I'd move Martin before Pugh. Pugh proved he can play at a high level. Let Martin be the swing guy who moves. He can play either LT, RG, LG or center.
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Old 03-05-2014, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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I would like to see us sign these players for the Oline

G Jon Asamoah (Chiefs) 26
Quality, young experienced guard

C Evan Dietrich-Smith (Packers) 28
good centre who will help the transition to McAdoo's new (Giants-Packers hybrid) offensive system.
This signing likely mean we cut Baas (possibly with post June 1 designation)

T J'Marcus Webb (Vikings) 26
solid young tackle with some experience who provides depth at both tackle spots and insurance for Beatty

G/T Eben Britton (Bears) 26
solid young guy with some experience that can play inside or out.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Sounds like the former Packers TE that we go after in FA is actually Quarles and not Finley.
I like this move, not flashy but brings in a solid young TE with familiarity with McAdoo.

The Giants don't traditionally spend high resources at the position (just look at Martellus Bennett)
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:17 PM    (permalink
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I would like us to sign LB Vincent Rey (CIN). He is the stud LB we need
No comments?

Don't sleep on this guy, he stepped in for a few games at MLB last season and was one of their best LBs (on a team loaded at LB).

Cincinnatti gave him the rights of first refusal tender at $1.431m (which we gave to Paysinger), which means they are unwilling to commit the second round tender value of $2.187m and there is no compensation if he signs elsewhere.

Rey is 6-2, 240 with a 4.58 40 time. He is from Far Rockaway NY

Rey played in 324 snaps last year with 4 sacks, 1 QB hit, 31 tackles (excl sacks), 5 asst, 2 int.

he had the 9th best ILB rating on Pro Football Focus with a grade of 7.2 (2.0 Rush, 4.0 Cov, 0.9 Run, 0.3 Pen).
What I really like is that opposing QBs had a rating of 51.0 in his coverage (2nd best for ILBs).

If we could sign this guy, he is a good option at SLB and is a genuine three down LB
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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He is supposed to be versatile and a better prospect than Pugh. There was talk that Pugh can play anywhere on the OL. RT, LT, any guard and even center. You don't move Pugh inside. Everyone keeps talking about that. The guy had a great rookie year and compared to the other OTs drafted he graded out very well.

I would not move him unless we load up on offensive linemen. I'd move Martin before Pugh. Pugh proved he can play at a high level. Let Martin be the swing guy who moves. He can play either LT, RG, LG or center.
Pugh graded out negative as a pass blocker.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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Pugh graded out negative as a pass blocker.
Overall yes, but if you view his development, he progressed throughout the season and was on an upward track, grading out the highest out of all the rookie OTs to end the season.
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Old 03-06-2014, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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No comments?

Don't sleep on this guy, he stepped in for a few games at MLB last season and was one of their best LBs (on a team loaded at LB).

Cincinnatti gave him the rights of first refusal tender at $1.431m (which we gave to Paysinger), which means they are unwilling to commit the second round tender value of $2.187m and there is no compensation if he signs elsewhere.

Rey is 6-2, 240 with a 4.58 40 time. He is from Far Rockaway NY

Rey played in 324 snaps last year with 4 sacks, 1 QB hit, 31 tackles (excl sacks), 5 asst, 2 int.

he had the 9th best ILB rating on Pro Football Focus with a grade of 7.2 (2.0 Rush, 4.0 Cov, 0.9 Run, 0.3 Pen).
What I really like is that opposing QBs had a rating of 51.0 in his coverage (2nd best for ILBs).

If we could sign this guy, he is a good option at SLB and is a genuine three down LB
I'd be lying to you if I said I've evaluated him and know much about him. But this definitely intrigues me, and I'd be very interested in learning more about him.

I want to see if I can catch anything on youtube from him.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Overall yes, but if you view his development, he progressed throughout the season and was on an upward track, grading out the highest out of all the rookie OTs to end the season.
And you homers act like he rewrote the record books. The other OTs progressed as well. Lane Johnson finished as one of the better run blockers of all RTs and only let up 3 sacks in the back half of the season. Fluker was asked to play LT. Joekel had his season cut real short but jax felt good enough to trade Monroe and move him to the left side before that. Fisher had the worst season but he even finished strong with a positive grade. Let's not act like Pugh completely blew away the other tackles and did something that was never done before.

Beatty struggled at LT horribly and yet coughin still kept Pugh at rt. That speaks volumes.

Our line depends on a few things. Do we feel Beatty can have a bounce back year? And will baas/snee be back?

If We lost all confidence in Beatty he needs to move to Rt. His contract won't allow his release and he'll do less damage there. Pugh then needs moved to G/C and we need to target a FA LT.

If we gamble on Beatty then we draft a T high in the draft and target a Saffold type player in FA.

Potential lines for next year.

Beatty-Saffold-baas-snee-Pugh -draft top tackle
Veldheer-Pugh-baas-snee-Beatty -boothe as backup

Next, does baas and snee take pay cuts. I think they do but this time we'll be better prepared for when they are injured.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Who is acting like Pugh is the next Walter Jones? He's a solid player who's gonna be a starter on this lineup, I think that's the majority opinion on him. I don't think anyone expects him to be the best OT from that class, but I could care less if he is or isn't. I just want him to be a viable starter, and he's shown he can be that. Good enough for me.

I'm open to moving him around, but I won't lose sleep over keeping him at RT. I think he can play LT too. Coughlin has indicated that it's a potential possibility for him next year if he puts on enough weight.
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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the whole RT- LT thing is so overblown and outdated at this point.

Why move Pugh if he was developing well at RT? Who says Beatty would do better at RT? It's a stupid notion that's been disproven over the past few years.

so the lack of a switch doesn't speak volumes even a little bit.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Here is my take on our Oline situation.

I think we are looking to get younger and healthier in general and build a bunch of guys we can build together for a while.

I think we are looking to add some physicality, but also want athletic guys and I expect we will include more zone blocking in our schemes.

Beatty will be back due to his contract and we are hoping he rebounds. We aren't going to rely on and will have some kind of contingency. Beatty is playing for his future though despite his new contract. Plan B at left tackle is Pugh

Chris Snee will take a pay cut and may be a backup for the three interior positions as well as a mentor.

David Baas will have to take a similar position if he is to be back. I think plan B is resigning Boothe cheaply.

Justin Pugh can play any of our positions. He has been solid at RT but we can certainly move him if required. He isn't the kind of mauler we had with McKenzie, but he got the job done. Pugh is the starting point at RT at this stage.

With James Brewer and Brandon Mosley we have a couple of youngsters who have flashed at times, but haven't taken the next step. We also have a bunch of young talent we like.

I think we will bring Jim Cordle back cheaply

I think we are looking at two to three veteran free agents on the Oline, one of which is a Guard.

Reese has said we are looking at young guards in free agency. That likely means Jon Asamoah (Chiefs), Geoff Schwartz (Chiefs) and Zane Beadles (Broncos) or Rodger Saffold (Rams) are the top options. We could also be looking at cheaper guys like Eben Britton (Bears). Both Saffold and Britton could play tackle.

If we can get a center like Evan Dietrich Smith (Packers) we will, but that may come down to money. I think plan B is Baas, Snee or Pugh.

We want a contingency at OT, this could come with a cheaper guy like J'Marcus Webb (Vikings)

The big gap I see on the roster currently is at LG, I suspect we are looking at this in the draft, probably on day 2 with someone like David Yankey, Antonio Richardson or Joel Bitonio initially competing with Mosley and Brewer. Bitonio and Richardson are tackles, but could slide inside to LG.
I think Gabe Jackson, Cyril Richardson or Xavier Su'a-Filo are more RGs.

With the draft, I think we are definately looking at a day 2 guard.
The rest of the draft will depend on how things unfold, a first round tackle is certainly possible if one of the top three (Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews or Taylor Lewan) is available. We could plug them in at RT or backup Beatty for a year.

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Old 03-06-2014, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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We saw how bad 2 top 5 LT played at RT the beginning of last year. I know Matthews played the right side before, so he may be our best option, I'm really hoping he can slide. If we get Lewan, I think you need to leave him on the left side and move Beatty. We know Beatty can handle RT.
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Old 03-06-2014, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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I expect we will move to more of a zone blocking scheme base but mix it up with some of the power blocking.

This is along the general lines of what the Packers have done.

here is an interesting article

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packe...227471491.html
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Old 03-06-2014, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damix View Post
We saw how bad 2 top 5 LT played at RT the beginning of last year. I know Matthews played the right side before, so he may be our best option, I'm really hoping he can slide. If we get Lewan, I think you need to leave him on the left side and move Beatty. We know Beatty can handle RT.
I don't see any issue with Lewan at RT if we wanted to go that way. He is very experienced. Last year a few of the top prospects were a little raw.

The difference between left and right tackle is becoming less distinct. RTs need to pass block more without help.
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