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Old 03-18-2014, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Comparing Cruz to Dez is a joke, Sean Lee to Antrel Rolle?

Tyron Smith is a top 5 left tackle already with a first ballet HOF ceiling, and don't forget about Travis Frederick. Dude could become a rare elite center.
wat.

I'm one of cruz's biggest critics but we're comparing "marquee" talents and they're both absolutely marquee talents. And let's not get on the Dez thing here. We keep hearing how he's a HOF'er but his inconsistency. Dez is a better WR than Cruz, but let's not get carried away here.

And yes, Rolle was a top 10 safety last year. You're delving pretty hard into homer territory here...especially with crowning Smith a HOF'er and calling Frederick (whom I like) a rare elite center after one year, in which he had some pretty big struggles in.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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I thought cutting Ware got them just under the cap.
They were already under it, and they save 17.5 million next year with no dead money at all.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
wat.

I'm one of cruz's biggest critics but we're comparing "marquee" talents and they're both absolutely marquee talents. And let's not get on the Dez thing here. We keep hearing how he's a HOF'er but his inconsistency. Dez is a better WR than Cruz, but let's not get carried away here.

And yes, Rolle was a top 10 safety last year. You're delving pretty hard into homer territory here...especially with crowning Smith a HOF'er and calling Frederick (whom I like) a rare elite center after one year, in which he had some pretty big struggles in.
I said HOF ceiling, and frederick could be a rare elite center. Re-read my post.

Either way, he's a top 5 LT right now, so that's marquee.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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I said HOF ceiling, and frederick could be a rare elite center. Re-read my post.

Either way, he's a top 5 LT right now, so that's marquee.
I know what you said, but they're both massive what-ifs.

I'll give you Smith being top 5.

But then we could go with our what-ifs and saying what if JPP regains to form, becoming a top DE in the league and Hankins progressing as he did in the season to replace Linval and be a dominant run stuffer.

And can we now say Pugh is going to be an elite OL? Because of his potential and run blocking?
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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They were already under it, and they save 17.5 million next year with no dead money at all.
I mean this year.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I mean this year.
They're 7.4 million under right now and can make a lot more room with a few cuts and restructures if they want.

And to the above post, Pugh compared to Smith? Really?
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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They're 7.4 million under right now and can make a lot more room with a few cuts and restructures if they want.

And to the above post, Pugh compared to Smith? Really?
Pugh was being compared to Frederick as in guys with 1 year and projecting them to be elite.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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They're 7.4 million under right now and can make a lot more room with a few cuts and restructures if they want.

And to the above post, Pugh compared to Smith? Really?
And how much is needed for rookies? 7.4 is very little when Allen is wanting close to 10 mill a year. You'd need to clear another 7.5 likely.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:54 PM    (permalink
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And how much is needed for rookies? 7.4 is very little when Allen is wanting close to 10 mill a year. You'd need to clear another 7.5 likely.
They get 5.5 from Miles Austin on June 1. That's the draft class money.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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They get 5.5 from Miles Austin on June 1. That's the draft class money.
Then I suppose you could sign one of them but likely not both.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I actually like what we have done with retooling the roster

We have been quite active in free agency, it is really the way we have built the roster with lots of competition at positions.

The emphasis has definately changed, for example in the past we would have resigned Tuck or chased the top pass rushers, instead we have loaded up in the secondary.

we will have a solid draft, but largely these guys are going to contribute more next year.

Looking at the signings, I think there will be changes in how we do things in all three phases.

We won't really know how it all comes together until preseason.

It is quite obvious there is a lot of things going on in the coaching staff and they are shaking things up.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Yes but at least Tuck would do something when it mattered. Ware would stand there and get handled by Will Beaty.

DRC is basically irrelevant against the Cowboys, Dez has like 600 yards and 5 TD's on him in his career anyway.

I don't think either team is a playoff team at the moment, but the Cowboys easily have better marquee players at the moment.

Not to mention, the Giants haven't been drafting well either. This draft is stacked, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Jennings is a great signing I will acknowledge that, dude runs hard.
Dez disappeared in many games last year, not saying DRC played good games against him (most DB's would have trouble with him) and would cause that to happen, but nonetheless Dez isn't a reliable option. He can kill a team, or he could kill his own.

You really want to talk about drafting?
Giants over the past 5 drafts relevant players:
-Nicks
(not with team anymore but essential to our superbowl run and regarded as easily a top 20 WR in the league for some time)
-Beatty
(starter, albeit inconsistent, but had one great year for us with many average)
-Andre Brown
(not with the team now, but had two good seasons of good production)
-JPP
(had one 1/2 great seasons of owning, and two 1/2 other seasons were riddled with injuries or being a rookie and developing)
-Linval Joseph
(good player for us, slightly overrated by most I feel)
- Amukamara
(became a laughing stock early in his rookie season and then turned up for the playoffs by shutting guys like jordy nelson down. Our #1 corner)
- Jernigan
(was good last season, but not consistent. He wasn't given much of a chance until now)
- Jacquain Williams
(played very well in spurts, injured a lot but capable of being a starter)
- David Wilson
(potential and shown sparks of all pro capability, been in and out of the doghouse and had an injury. If he regains form and is given a fair shake at playing time, Im hopeful he could be our starter)
- Randle
(likely replacing Nicks, not as consistent but this offense may be better suited for him)
- Pugh
(solid starter but still getting better)
- Hankins
(played well with limited time and will likely start next season)


* Moore
Not a player that can be written in with the others, but I predict he will be given a 3-4 rushbacker role and go to town on it.

Dallas over the past 5 drafts relevant players:
-John Phillips
Had good production but not on the team now
-Dez
All pro talent, all joe mentalities when it comes to maturity
-Lee
Leader and not all pro, but reliable starter and then some
-Tyron Smith
All pro talent, not HOF
-Carter
very good player, injured twice?
-Murray
very good player injured every season it seems
-Harris
good in limited role
-Claiborne
not living up to expectations, but is far from a bust I feel.
-Frederick
good starter
-Terrance Williams
probably going to take over as #2, good starter but benefitted a great deal from attention given to witten and dez.

Looking at this, yes the past year or two for the Cowboys has been better off of production but your rookies have been afforded opportunities to play. There is not such a wide difference even then.


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Comparing Cruz to Dez is a joke, Sean Lee to Antrel Rolle?

Tyron Smith is a top 5 left tackle already with a first ballet HOF ceiling, and don't forget about Travis Frederick. Dude could become a rare elite center.

In terms of guys like Prince, you could say that about Carr or Claiborne if Claiborne could stay healthy and they find a pass rush. IMO corners are relatively irrelevant. Even in Seattle, the pass rush is at least 70% why they're that good.

If the Super Bowl was 7 on 7 the Broncos would've picked them apart. It's all pass rush.
Lol please look at Cruz and Dez's production, then go look at target to catch ratio. Dez may have more touchdowns in a 4 year projection of cruz, but your perception is very skewed. One more thing, Cruz has a ring.

Corners are irrelevant? in every system? yeah, cool story bro. Passrush helps anywhere, but they correlate to one another.

You have proof of this? I would argue that the schemes of both teams in a 7 on 7 would still benefit the Hawks.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Te...boys&Year=2014

How do they get 5.5 from Miles Austin June 1st?
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Well we went balls out to upgrade the defense. This draft, I hope, will be a lot of offense.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:02 PM    (permalink
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http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Te...boys&Year=2014

How do they get 5.5 from Miles Austin June 1st?
He is a post June 1 cut, so they get the money off the cap then. You've never heard of that?
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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Dez disappeared in many games last year, not saying DRC played good games against him (most DB's would have trouble with him) and would cause that to happen, but nonetheless Dez isn't a reliable option. He can kill a team, or he could kill his own.
You clearly know very little about Dez and the Cowboys and you are just using pathetic headline grabbing stereotypes from ESPN from years ago. He didn't hurt the Cowboys at all this year. Besides, every QB/WR has a mix-up 2 or 3 times a season. When did Dez disappear? The only person to blame for that is Garrett and his pathetic gameplanning. Watch the all-22 of Cowboys games, Dez is wide open so many times and he isn't even looked at. His stats would be off the charts, which they will be with Linehan forcing him the ball.

And yes, compare Cruz to him is a joke. We'll see what Cruz does this year without Nicks to take attention.

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Old 03-19-2014, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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You clearly know very little about Dez and the Cowboys and you are just using pathetic headline grabbing stereotypes from ESPN from years ago. He didn't hurt the Cowboys at all this year. Besides, every QB/WR has a mix-up 2 or 3 times a season. When did Dez disappear? The only person to blame for that is Garrett and his pathetic gameplanning. Watch the all-22 of Cowboys games, Dez is wide open so many times and he isn't even looked at. His stats would be off the charts, which they will be with Linehan forcing him the ball.

And yes, compare Cruz to him is a joke. We'll see what Cruz does this year without Nicks to take attention.
I've watched many cowboys games, and a lot times Dez ran routes that did not help Romo on throws (i.e. not flattening a post so that the safety doesn't jump it). You see Cruz make those adjustments. Unfortunately, the Giants weren't able to put Cruz in positions where he wouldn't be a focus of the defense very often after Nicks went down and was absolutely transparent the rest of the year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...ets/year/20123
160 targets, 93 catches Dez
123 targets, 73 catches Cruz

Each is used differently for their respective teams, but to say that the comparison is a joke is very asinine. Cruz's importance to our offense is as paramount as Dez is if not moreso. You don't think Cruz or any other WR had missed opportunities? Dude, give me a break. Cruz made plays that pushed us to a Superbowl and won, we don't sniff the playoffs if it wasn't for him. Capitalizing when it mattered most.

Nicks was a great receiver two years ago, not now, not with that attitude. We didn't have him last year, actually we benched him in order to get a functional body in there that was neither injured or mentally vacant. He was a sad shell of a receiver. Cruz was then afforded to be specifically game planned against yet put up some productive games and 2 yards from an 1000 yard season playing in just 14 games (due to nothing to play for). I recall

So you can go on saying that Cruz isn't Dez's equal in importance of team, in production from how he is utilized in their respective systems, and I will continue to laugh as the Cowboys fail every december

Edit:
As far as the team killing, yeah the media overblows it but is it not apparent that Dez has to be specifically handled in certain ways? Curfew? He's definitely enthusiastic about football and has abilities to be a top 3 WR, but does he make smart plays? Is he more than just talent? No, he's not Witten. He's not the reliable receiver you look to perform the same everytime. He can go off with 140 yards and 2 touchdowns just as often as he can go 1 catch for 44 yards and many targets left for dead, miscommunications, and unadjusted routes.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Dez is a very good talent but a head case. I wouldn't want him on my team. Get rid of his immaturity and his ranting and raving on the sideline and then I'd take him.

Still with someone like Dez and Witten that Dallas team has been useless a very long time. I'd take Cruz in what he does . We still need to add more talent to our offense.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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You guys are underrating Dez. He's a monster. And his antics are blown way out of proportion.

Dez is a top 5 WR in the league easily. Maybe top 3.

Having that said, I just don't fear Dallas. As long as Jerry is in charge and Garrett is HC, I just don't fear them.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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You guys are underrating Dez. He's a monster. And his antics are blown way out of proportion.

Dez is a top 5 WR in the league easily. Maybe top 3.

Having that said, I just don't fear Dallas. As long as Jerry is in charge and Garrett is HC, I just don't fear them.
I think my portrayal is pretty accurate. He is a beast, but he is also capable of hurting his team by not being a more technical and savvy player. His physical talent is Top 3, but I wouldn't depend on him.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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You guys are underrating Dez. He's a monster. And his antics are blown way out of proportion.

Dez is a top 5 WR in the league easily. Maybe top 3.

Having that said, I just don't fear Dallas. As long as Jerry is in charge and Garrett is HC, I just don't fear them.


Dallas has been a waste for so long why would anyone fear them? Jason W. will soon retire and they have no one on defense and then no weapons on offense.

As long as Jerry is there that team won't do **** anymore. Dez has talent but I doubt that duo does much especially if their defense is void of anyone. Romos window will close and be wasted.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I think my portrayal is pretty accurate. He is a beast, but he is also capable of hurting his team by not being a more technical and savvy player. His physical talent is Top 3, but I wouldn't depend on him.
This is the last time i'm going to post in this thread, but you're dead wrong about Dez. BBD hit it on the head, his issues are overblown.

As long as he's on the field, who cares if ESPN is saying "he's a distraction," which he isn't. The bottom line is Dez is a prisoner of the pussified, politically correct world we live in. Every fan of any team in any sport should want someone like Dez Bryant on their team. He's in the 10% of players who actually care about the game and want to win. Dez Bryant would play football for free if he had to.

Dez hasn't hurt the cowboys since mid-2012, and even then, what did he do? Run a wrong route once every other game? Big deal. People just want to nit pick at something, and him being a Cowboy just adds to the fire. If Dez was a Giant, Eagle, or Redskin i'd still like him as a player because you have to respect him. He would never, ever, do some crap like hakeem nicks and half-ass an entire season. Dez would play on one leg and just be happy your allowing him to play.

By the way, everyone knows receiver is the hardest position to adjust to in the NFL, and Dez only plays 2 seasons and 3 games in college. Big *** deal that he ran a wrong route during his second year in the league. Really bro?

With all do respect, to anyone who shares your opinion about Dez, well they're just uneducated fools who want to hate on a Cowboy. Dude is a baller.

And anyone, even the most homerific Giant fan, saying they want Cruz over him is lying. Could you imagine Eli doing his rainman ******** just throwing the ball up deep to Dez 4-5 times a game? They would be amazing.

If you couldn't deal with his "ranting and raving" on the sideline, well then you're just a loser. If you allow that to actually effect your team, and you can't overlook some crap like that in order to win, that's pathetic and you deserve to lose. They are professional adults, not 7 years old. I always laugh at grown men saying it's a distraction. What a laugh.

On the other note from BBD, I completely agree about not fearing the Cowboys. While Jerry Jones has a lot less influence than outsiders think, Jason Garrett is a pathetic clown who thinks it's 1995 and the only way the Cowboys would ever go deep in the playoffs with him will be despite of him.

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Old 03-19-2014, 05:40 PM    (permalink
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This is the last time i'm going to post in this thread, but you're dead wrong about Dez. BBD hit it on the head, his issues are overblown.

As long as he's on the field, who cares if ESPN is saying "he's a distraction," which he isn't. The bottom line is Dez is a prisoner of the pussified, politically correct world we live in. Every fan of any team in any sport should want someone like Dez Bryant on their team. He's in the 10% of players who actually care about the game and want to win. Dez Bryant would play football for free if he had to.

Wouldnt go that far but I am not questioning his motivation. I've read and heard his "tantrums" which are moreso related to him just trying to motivate people. Not what I'm getting at.

Dez hasn't hurt the cowboys since mid-2012, and even then, what did he do? Run a wrong route once every other game? Big deal. People just want to nit pick at something, and him being a Cowboy just adds to the fire. If Dez was a Giant, Eagle, or Redskin i'd still like him as a player because you have to respect him. He would never, ever, do some crap like hakeem nicks and half-ass an entire season. Dez would play on one leg and just be happy your allowing him to play.

I do like him as a player, and would like him on my team no doubt. This all started with you saying Cruz being compared to Dez is laughable. Dez has his strong points, but his weak points make him less reliable than Cruz in my opinion by a big deal.

By the way, everyone knows receiver is the hardest position to adjust to in the NFL, and Dez only plays 2 seasons and 3 games in college. Big *** deal that he ran a wrong route during his second year in the league. Really bro?

And Cruz only has 3 seasons to Dez's 4 in the NFL. It is a big deal, that's exactly the argument I am making, and exactly why Cruz's ring is relevant. He was reliable when it mattered most. Dez makes a lot of plays, can change the game, but not to the level that Cruz did in the 2011 season by any measure. Thats why you claiming its laughable is in itself...laughable

With all do respect, to anyone who shares your opinion about Dez, well they're just uneducated fools who want to hate on a Cowboy. Dude is a baller.

So to anyone who shares your opinion on Cruz and any receiver on another team, well they're just uneducated fools who want to masturbate to their favorite players.

And anyone, even the most homerific Giant fan, saying they want Cruz over him is lying. Could you imagine Eli doing his rainman ******** just throwing the ball up deep to Dez 4-5 times a game? They would be amazing.

I want Cruz over Dez in our system with our QB. I don't think Cruz could go to another system and have the same level of production, and that Dez wouldn't fluctuate as much in production going to other systems. You look at Cruz's 2011 season and try to tell me that Dez could've been better for us

If you couldn't deal with his "ranting and raving" on the sideline, well then you're just a loser. If you allow that to actually effect your team, and you can't overlook some crap like that in order to win, that's pathetic and you deserve to lose. They are professional adults, not 7 years old. I always laugh at grown men saying it's a distraction. What a laugh.

Never said anything about that, you just ass-u-me-d such. Im referring to immaturity and having to be nurtured when he is a man. A curfew clearly indicates not even his own team trusts him to be smart and autonomous.

On the other note from BBD, I completely agree about not fearing the Cowboys. While Jerry Jones has a lot less influence than outsiders think, Jason Garrett is a pathetic clown who thinks it's 1995 and the only way the Cowboys would ever go deep in the playoffs with him will be despite of him.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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I don't see the need for long posts in other team threads defending your players.

Dez is a good player, I don't think he is a good fit under Coughlin. but that is more about character and work ethic than ability. Some of the stuff Byrant has done is worse than we had with Nicks last year and we all saw how well that went.

Different players suit different systems.
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