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Old 03-24-2014, 10:38 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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I enjoy the change, and I'm looking forward to the rebuild, but what I'm trying to say is there were a couple of young guys we already had in house that I was hoping would still develop, but some of these signings indicate that won't be the case and I'm disappointed in that.

Like Hosely, Moseley, the white safety I'm forgetting his name, Hermans.

Just wish a couple of those guys would develop but it doesn't look like it.
well, yes. There's potential Mosley could still be in the plan. Hermans we gave a shot and he didn't do well.

I'm kinda with you on Hosely, but that's really it. yeah, we've drafted poorly of late, but we gotta move on and cut the losses
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Hosley is always hurt. AR is always hurt. Mosley played LG and could develop and Herman just had hip surgery, lol. See a trend? Raw injury prone players we keep drafting.
You can't predict injury though. That's just bad luck. Look, I'm sure if you go down the list of teams they all have similar stories to us in this situation. Players get hurt. There's a reason why the average NFL career is 3.5 years. It's a tough sport and guys get hurt.

I'm still holding out hope for Moseley and AR.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Well Eli sucking depends on other factors:

OL, WR, TE and RB. Are we talented in enough for our offense and Eli to be productive?

It's interesting how you bring up Eli sucking yet non of the factors that contribute to his sucking are mentioned. This is just a general observation but on different sites people say Eli played poorly, but that falls in the no crap category. You have a NO OL, NO TE corps, a useless X, WRs that make mistakes, and no RB, and the QB will be impacted. He is going to press. That causes the QB to make idiotic decisions, and screw up too. It's interesting how people point to Eli.
He's the QB he gets the most credit and the most blame, it is what is it. There were lots of factors on why everything was so bad offensivewly last year and Eli was a part of it. He can definitely rebound though and I have faith that he will.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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You can't predict injury though. That's just bad luck. Look, I'm sure if you go down the list of teams they all have similar stories to us in this situation. Players get hurt. There's a reason why the average NFL career is 3.5 years. It's a tough sport and guys get hurt.

I'm still holding out hope for Moseley and AR.
Well we have a lot of it. And when Reese was Director of College Scouting he drafted players who were injured in college and thus dropped. I still remember. Webster with that drop foot and Tuck were like that. Jacobs was raw and a transfer from Auburn to that small school.

We have a lot of injuries then. And as for no 3 year rebuild, well tell our Ross to stop with the developmental 2-3 year players. That's why we are in this jam. We drafted 2-3 players hoping that once our good OL all got old and retired, our developmental guys would be ready and ease in to start.

However, age, degradation of talent, and injuries kicked in. Our OL fell apart, and our 2-3 year developmental guys had to start right away. We also had surprise, surprise injuries to developmental guys like Koets who played center and whiffed on Petrus, who Ross and Reese said would be like Rich Seubert. Thanks Ross! Where is this long career of Petrus?
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Well Eli sucking depends on other factors:

OL, WR, TE and RB. Are we talented in enough for our offense and Eli to be productive?

It's interesting how you bring up Eli sucking yet non of the factors that contribute to his sucking are mentioned. This is just a general observation but on different sites people say Eli played poorly, but that falls in the no crap category. You have a NO OL, NO TE corps, a useless X, WRs that make mistakes, and no RB, and the QB will be impacted. He is going to press. That causes the QB to make idiotic decisions, and screw up too. It's interesting how people point to Eli.
You pay a qb 100 mil he's gotta make the players around him better. Eli doesn't do that.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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You pay a qb 100 mil he's gotta make the players around him better. Eli doesn't do that.
He does. But everyone has a breaking point. Eli couldn't overcome last season. He's not in the Tom Brady class of making everyone better but he is capable and has done it in the past.

Our OL just reached a point of no return and he couldn't overcome it. That and the WRs.

But yeah, I don't want to hear excuses this year.
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:51 PM    (permalink
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He does. But everyone has a breaking point. Eli couldn't overcome last season. He's not in the Tom Brady class of making everyone better but he is capable and has done it in the past.

Our OL just reached a point of no return and he couldn't overcome it. That and the WRs.

But yeah, I don't want to hear excuses this year.
No one can overcome, NO OL, NO RB, NO TE corps, Useless X, and other WRs who are hanging their QB out to dry. You're going to have a QB with a screwed up internal clock, trying to rush throws, and that's going to impact decision making.

Sometimes I wonder about our fan base.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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No one can overcome, NO OL, NO RB, NO TE corps, Useless X, and other WRs who are hanging their QB out to dry. You're going to have a QB with a screwed up internal clock, trying to rush throws, and that's going to impact decision making.

Sometimes I wonder about our fan base.
We live in a results oriented world. At the end of the day, no one gives a **** why you didn't do something well, all that matters is you didn't do it.

You can give anyone excuses if you apologize enough for them. It's time to stop making excuses for Eli. He has to play better, plain and simple. I don't care what everyone else did, if you isolate Eli he made some terrible decisions and had an awful year himself, independent of his surroundings.

And that's the truth no one wants to face. But it's the truth. Eli has to play better. It wasn't all his fault, but he absolutely had his own faults as well last year.

He has to play better. No excuses. Stop making excuses for him.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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And for the record, I'm very confident that Eli will bounce back and have a good year. But enough. Stop making excuses for the guy. I don't want to hear that **** anymore. If he plays like **** next year I don't want to hear the excuses. Get it done.

I'm confident he will.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:31 PM    (permalink
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We live in a results oriented world. At the end of the day, no one gives a **** why you didn't do something well, all that matters is you didn't do it.

You can give anyone excuses if you apologize enough for them. It's time to stop making excuses for Eli. He has to play better, plain and simple. I don't care what everyone else did, if you isolate Eli he made some terrible decisions and had an awful year himself, independent of his surroundings.

And that's the truth no one wants to face. But it's the truth. Eli has to play better. It wasn't all his fault, but he absolutely had his own faults as well last year.

He has to play better. No excuses. Stop making excuses for him.

Then football is too complicated for them. They need to watch an easier sport to grasp. It's time we surround Eli with better talent and a scheme that won't hang him out to dry. Even with the successes Eli has had he leads all active QBs since 2004 in Ints.

Like I said though. If football is too complicated for fans, it's fine. This sport isn't for everyone.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:36 PM    (permalink
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Do I have faith in him to improve? Let's see how we address LT, Center, and RG. I have questions regarding those positions. What about Rb, TE and WR? Cruz is coming back from injury as well as Mario. RR flashes but needs to be consistent. We have no TE. JJ is a question mark.

Now to have faith in ELI to improve? I am not sure. Let's see how we address those spots. If he is getting his brains beat in, then it will be tough. I still need to see Ben M. and his system. It's an exciting off season, but I need to see A LOT of things before I say I have faith in anyone, TC, BM, and ELi.
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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5th round comp pick we got.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Football isn't complicated. He has to be held accountable if he plays like ****. Plain and simple.

I say it all the time, every bad qb in the league has the same exact excuses. Bad OL, bad WRs, coaching etc. It's just an excuse. Eli gets a pass for last year bc of how bad the situation was, but there were many steps taken to improve the team. OL additions, a scheme change, RB picked up etc.

If he plays like **** next year it's on him. I won't make excuses for him.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Football isn't complicated. He has to be held accountable if he plays like ****. Plain and simple.

I say it all the time, every bad qb in the league has the same exact excuses. Bad OL, bad WRs, coaching etc. It's just an excuse. Eli gets a pass for last year bc of how bad the situation was, but there were many steps taken to improve the team. OL additions, a scheme change, RB picked up etc.

If he plays like **** next year it's on him. I won't make excuses for him.
Yeah it is. Perfect team sport where if you don't do your job it screws everything up. There is a reason why it's so detailed, in depth, and the systematic way of doing things adds to the complexity.

No, not every QB has the issues like this. And that's what fans need to wake up and understand. You can't do much when the conditions I detailed above are present. You can't say Eli, when all those things are wrong, play very well. That's not going to happen. You couldn't be more wrong. Just like you said scouts make their money in the first round. It's mid to late rounds. You're thinking at times is so warped. That's why I am here. I will make it my job to coach you up.

: P

You're like a raw developmental draft pick who needs coaching. If everything isn't a mess and Eli screws up, then i will be the first one to say get rid of him. I don't want a high priced QB who can't cut it. NO fan should! I don't buy into the usual BS fans talk about. So and so should retire a Giant. I could care less about that. Sure it's nice if they do, but that's not a right.

We will see how things go this upcoming year. If you want accountability put Reese and Ross on the clock, specifically Ross. What exactly has he done since he got here to get promoted?! He hasn't had 1 good draft class yet!!

Also, if Eli stinks BBD, everyone gets fired. The coaches are on a 1 year deal basically. If he stinks everyone goes. Eli, TC and the whole staff. That's the beauty or tragic nature of this. If Eli plays poorly, we don't re-sign him. TC doesn't get an extension and neither does the whole staff. We have a clean state! Only person who stays is Reese.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Lol dude calls plays for his sons pop warner team and thinks he knows everything about the pros.

Football isn't that complicated. I know it wasn't all Eli's fault, most fans do but when you carry his kind of pay grade you gotta make the players around you better. These aren't bum WRs we're giving him. Plax and toomer were well established WRs, Smith was a 2nd, Nicks a 1st, Barden a 3rd, Manningham a 3rd, Randle a 2nd. I want to see more out of Eli in that regard.

Now the OL has been a strength for us up until the last 2 seasons. Eli hasn't always had a ****** line. Eli has however been turnover prone. Which he needs to fix.

His boneheaded plays... You can't blame anyone but Eli for those brain farts. So stop.

Again, I'm not saying it's all his fault but when he counts for 20+ mil against the cap he needs to make the players around him better. It's time to start holding him responsible for his actions.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:42 PM    (permalink
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Lol dude calls plays for his sons pop warner team and thinks he knows everything about the pros.

Football isn't that complicated. I know it wasn't all Eli's fault, most fans do but when you carry his kind of pay grade you gotta make the players around you better. These aren't bum WRs we're giving him. Plax and toomer were well established WRs, Smith was a 2nd, Nicks a 1st, Barden a 3rd, Manningham a 3rd, Randle a 2nd. I want to see more out of Eli in that regard.

Now the OL has been a strength for us up until the last 2 seasons. Eli hasn't always had a ****** line. Eli has however been turnover prone. Which he needs to fix.

His boneheaded plays... You can't blame anyone but Eli for those brain farts.

Again, I'm not saying it's all his fault but when he counts for 20+ mil against the cap he needs to make the players around him better. It's time to start holding him responsible for his actions.

Who calls plays for his sons pop Warner team? LOL.

Why would a top flight franchise try to surround their QB with bum WRs? They did a good job of providing talent and when everything came together we won.

His brain farts are the worst thing I ever seen. The fool can't slide with the ball in hand, Eagles game, without fumbling. He tries too hard throwing left handed, Panthers game, in the endzone to Boss, and gets picked off. He does mind blowing stupid things.

He is turnover prone. It also sucks that the scheme we have had doesn't help. Even the play calling is stupid. Against the Seahawks ELi had 3 Ints under his belt, and those idiots decided to call a hail mary. If I am Eli I am not doing that. The guy has 3 turnovers, and they want him to just throw the ball up?! Are you kidding me? Stupid stuff all around.

He can only play as well as the the OL in front of him. If they stink, and our offensive personnel isn't upgraded you can expect more idiotic stuff.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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I enjoy the change, and I'm looking forward to the rebuild, but what I'm trying to say is there were a couple of young guys we already had in house that I was hoping would still develop, but some of these signings indicate that won't be the case and I'm disappointed in that.

Like Hosely, Moseley, the white safety I'm forgetting his name, Hermans.

Just wish a couple of those guys would develop but it doesn't look like it.
Who knows though, maybe having some competition and their jobs be really on the line gets the stars to finally align and for Hosley to become that insanely sexy NB that we all thought he was. Like I could totally see that happening now with Thurmond being a very good inside guy having brought in to replace him.

Likewise Mosley and our other OL long shots. If they can't make the team with the new depth then so be it, they needed to be replaced and stop gaps found and we already have the stop gaps. That's why I don't care so much where we go in the draft. Pass catcher, OL or pass rusher would be great, but if there's a stud DB or LB that happens to hit us well we can work with that to.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Why would a top flight franchise try to surround their QB with bum WRs? They did a good job of providing talent and when everything came together we won.

He can only play as well as the the OL in front of him. If they stink, and our offensive personnel isn't upgraded you can expect more idiotic stuff.
You missed the point.
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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You missed the point.
No, I got it. You want Eli or think he should elevate the talent of the established WR provided throughout the years. You feel that he hasn't done a good job to meet your standards.

My point was that it's the franchises job to get talent. Moreover, players came and players went, but Eli stayed constant in this offense. This past year was Eli's first losing season since he started full time. That's pretty amazing when you think about it. I think he has done a good job in raising the level of play. Like BBD said, you can only do so much with last years conditions.

Like I said to BBD, if Eli stinks next year, he gets TC fired and all the coaches leave. The impact of that could mean he doesn't get re-signed for a lot of money which, his agent Tom Condon, will go for.

That's why I said this off season is the probably the most exciting off season and most important one in a very long time. If we screw this up, it will last a while. If we can draft well, and the system proves to be solid, we could very well be a good team.
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Old 03-25-2014, 04:40 AM    (permalink
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That's why I said this off season is the probably the most exciting off season and most important one in a very long time. If we screw this up, it will last a while. If we can draft well, and the system proves to be solid, we could very well be a good team.
I agree with that.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:07 AM    (permalink
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I agree with that.
I completely agree.

This is a very interesting offseason for the Giants.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Lol dude calls plays for his sons pop warner team and thinks he knows everything about the pros.
Now MM, was that directed at me? If so that's not accurate in the least bit.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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All I'm saying is, Eli has to perform better. I think we all agree on that. I fully expect him to, I think we are taking the appropriate measures to help him out and I expect him to play better than last year.

In the event that he doesn't, despite the scheme being changed (if it really is changed) and the reinforcements are actually productive, then we need to reevaluate Eli moving forward. That's all I'm saying.

And I think we all agree on that as well.

I expect a big year from him though.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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"MMMD 6: Mario Manningham facing a difficult road
Wide receiver Mario Manningham is once again a New York Giant, signing a one-year deal with Big Blue after spending two seasons in San Francisco, both of which ended on injured reserve.

Manningham’s 2012 injury was a multi-ligament injury, as both his ACL and PCL were torn. This makes recovery much more difficult than a typical ACL tear. Manningham returned to limited action in Week 10 last season, but was unable to finish the campaign, as he aggravated his knee. In my experience, it is a bad prognosis that Manningham’s knee flared up. Typically, this can be a sign of recurrent problems after major knee ligament injury.

It is likely that the Giants fear the same. Manningham did pass a physical, but was only offered a one-year deal likely in large part due to his knee issues. I wish him well in his difficult recovery from combined ACL/PCL surgery."

That's why MM's contract was so cheap.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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I don't anticipate his deal preventing us from going after a WR if hes BPA on the board.
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