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Old 03-25-2014, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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I don't anticipate his deal preventing us from going after a WR if hes BPA on the board.
It shouldn't prevent anything. MM could very well be a wasted signing. So the team better get more offensive fire power.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:13 AM    (permalink
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It shouldn't prevent anything. MM could very well be a wasted signing. So the team better get more offensive fire power.
Yup. I'm ok with the signing bc it's a low risk high reward signing. But we still need reinforcements out wide.

I know our team loves Ebron, but honestly I rather draft Mike Evans in that spot.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Yup. I'm ok with the signing bc it's a low risk high reward signing. But we still need reinforcements out wide.

I know our team loves Ebron, but honestly I rather draft Mike Evans in that spot.
Well Lewan, my first choice, might be an option we may not pursue. I like Martin as my first, and then Ebron. I just don't see the thing in Mike Evans. Guy has been playing football for only 2 years.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Well Lewan, my first choice, might be an option we may not pursue. I like Martin as my first, and then Ebron. I just don't see the thing in Mike Evans. Guy has been playing football for only 2 years.
Who cares how long he's played? That just tells me there's more room for growth. Jimmy Graham played for 2 years and look at him now. If Evans is this good already, his potential is through the roof. Especially in what should be a simplified offense.

If we still ran Gilbride's offense I would be concerned, but if McAdoo is truly simplifying the scheme then it should be no problem at all.

I just don't see it with Ebron.

I like Martin too. However I'd want him at 18, not at 12. I'd be ok with him if it meant trading back and collecting another 2nd round pick.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Who cares how long he's played? That just tells me there's more room for growth. Jimmy Graham played for 2 years and look at him now. If Evans is this good already, his potential is through the roof. Especially in what should be a simplified offense.

If we still ran Gilbride's offense I would be concerned, but if McAdoo is truly simplifying the scheme then it should be no problem at all.

I just don't see it with Ebron.

I like Martin too. However I'd want him at 18, not at 12. I'd be ok with him if it meant trading back and collecting another 2nd round pick.
Because he is raw a developmental pick. I don't see him as a guy who can run the route tree. I think Evans is a one trick pony and that trick is keep running go routes.

I would like Evans only if Martin, Ebron, and Gilbert are gone. I don't care when Martin is drafted. If they believe he can be a solid player for a decade then draft him. Not only is he a solid prospect he offers versatility we like.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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Because he is raw a developmental pick. I don't see him as a guy who can run the route tree. I think Evans is a one trick pony and that trick is keep running go routes.

I would like Evans only if Martin, Ebron, and Gilbert are gone. I don't care when Martin is drafted. If they believe he can be a solid player for a decade then draft him. Not only is he a solid prospect he offers versatility we like.
What do you see in Ebron? Can you give me your scouting report?

Bc honestly I just don't see a guy that screams top 12 pick in Ebron. He's not that big, and he's fast but he's not blazing fast. And he's an awful blocker. What's so special about the guy?

His wingspan isn't great either.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Damn 43 more days till the draft!
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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What do you see in Ebron? Can you give me your scouting report?

Bc honestly I just don't see a guy that screams top 12 pick in Ebron. He's not that big, and he's fast but he's not blazing fast. And he's an awful blocker. What's so special about the guy?

His wingspan isn't great either.
I see him as a poor mans Vernon Davis. Runs good routes, explosive, and has play making ability. He can drop the ball, but that can be coached. Good feet, and able to separate from defenders. He plays on special teams as well which will be a huge plus that Coughlin would like. Dangerous after the catch. Moves like a WR and because of that can be a big time weapon.

Still has room to grow into his body and get stronger. Needs better technique when blocking. Lacks focus at times which results in drops.

That's pretty much what I have seen when seeing him a bunch of times.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I see him as a poor mans Vernon Davis. Runs good routes, explosive, and has play making ability. He can drop the ball, but that can be coached. Good feet, and able to separate from defenders. He plays on special teams as well which will be a huge plus that Coughlin would like. Dangerous after the catch. Moves like a WR and because of that can be a big time weapon.

Still has room to grow into his body and get stronger. Needs better technique when blocking. Lacks focus at times which results in drops.

That's pretty much what I have seen when seeing him a bunch of times.
See that basically screams Jermichael Finley to me. And I'm not a big Finley fan. Even his body type is mediocre, he does not have a large wingspan and you can cover him with a SS at the next level or a big CB. He's not the body type mismatch I like at TE.

I just don't view that as a top 12 pick. I'm not sold on him at all. We can get a comparable talent later on. I rather go OL or an elite WR prospect like Evans in round 1 than get Ebron.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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See that basically screams Jermichael Finley to me. And I'm not a big Finley fan. Even his body type is mediocre, he does not have a large wingspan and you can cover him with a SS at the next level or a big CB. He's not the body type mismatch I like at TE.

I just don't view that as a top 12 pick. I'm not sold on him at all. We can get a comparable talent later on. I rather go OL or an elite WR prospect like Evans in round 1 than get Ebron.
Hey looks, that's fine. Welcome to the draft process. This is what Garrett Sr. and I talked about when i was at his house. I have one opinion, you have another, and you go around the room. If more people like Evans, you draft him. if more people like Ebron, you draft him.

You create your draft board and once you get people in the same row, then you go around the room and talk about it. That's the beauty of the draft process. You can have Tom Brady as a 3rd round pick, and everyone else sees him as a later round pick. You may be 100% correct, but it doesn't matter because people go with other players.

I think Ebron should be the guy if OL isn't there. You like Evans, now we go around the room, and see what the other scouts say, Ross, and TC. If people all say Ebron, you draft him. If it's split, you talk to Reese and Mara, and go with who they say if you can't reach a decision.

I think ebron will be a big time weapon for us. If the system is what I am thinking I think he will be very productive.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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Hey looks, that's fine. Welcome to the draft process. This is what Garrett Sr. and I talked about when i was at his house. I have one opinion, you have another, and you go around the room. If more people like Evans, you draft him. if more people like Ebron, you draft him.

You create your draft board and once you get people in the same row, then you go around the room and talk about it. That's the beauty of the draft process. You can have Tom Brady as a 3rd round pick, and everyone else sees him as a later round pick. You may be 100% correct, but it doesn't matter because people go with other players.

I think Ebron should be the guy if OL isn't there. You like Evans, now we go around the room, and see what the other scouts say, Ross, and TC. If people all say Ebron, you draft him. If it's split, you talk to Reese and Mara, and go with who they say if you can't reach a decision.

I think ebron will be a big time weapon for us. If the system is what I am thinking I think he will be very productive.
I'm not arguing with you, I'm just discussing it. I agree, it's ok to have different opinions.

I also have bias. I'm not a big TE guy. I just don't care for them as much. Maybe that's been conditioned in me bc we're so used to the old system that I value WRs more, and that could absolutely effect my judgement without me knowing.

I just don't see it with him, but hey, you never know.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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If we'll use him in this new offense, I'd prefer the elite TE. I think it just creates more mismatches and can open it up elsewhere for more pedestrian WRs. Where I'm not sure it would work as well the other way around.

Plus we are currently at absolute 0 at TE. We have current talent at WR.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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If we'll use him in this new offense, I'd prefer the elite TE. I think it just creates more mismatches and can open it up elsewhere for more pedestrian WRs. Where I'm not sure it would work as well the other way around.
I think WRs are just as valuable as TE in this new offense. GB was notorious for spreading you out with a group of elite WRs and identifying mismatches.

It's not about the position necessarily, I just don't view the player as an elite TE prospect.

That's my problem. If he was Jimmy Graham I'd be all over it. But I don't see it.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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That's my problem. If he was Jimmy Graham I'd be all over it. But I don't see it.
I don't know a ton about him but don't at least a few scouts think he could potentially be Jimmy Graham caliber?
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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I'm not arguing with you, I'm just discussing it. I agree, it's ok to have different opinions.

I also have bias. I'm not a big TE guy. I just don't care for them as much. Maybe that's been conditioned in me bc we're so used to the old system that I value WRs more, and that could absolutely effect my judgement without me knowing.

I just don't see it with him, but hey, you never know.
Oh no, I understand that. I don't take it as that. I am just saying, this is what happens within all teams. It's what makes the process so hard. Ebron would be a great weapon. You like Evans. Either way we get a weapon, but now we are talking which one will be productive. We are forecasting another humans success. That makes it difficult.

Well I am bias too. I coached the position. It's my favorite position going back to Bavaro and Shockey, It's a great mix of WR meets OL. I love it.

That conditioning is what most giants fans need to get rid of. I am hoping the model 6'4-6'7 255-275 lb two way TE can go out the window. I want a pass catching TE and enter the era of a TE weapon. I want a weapon that can move around and be a mismatch nightmare. I think Giants fans have been conditioned. First question or comment I read is, How is his blocking? He is a bad blocker. Fine, we can coach that up, or good use him as a pass catching TE. Remember? A TE who can make plays. Giants fans forgot about that. We are so used to block, block, block, run a route, block, block block. Screw that dinosaur model of doing things. This new system excites me because we could sport a TE who can actually be dangerous.

Big Wrs worry me. Guys like Mike Williams, Dwayne Jarrett, and Reggie Williams. Those type of guys always worry me. I would rather have speed like a Watkins. Granted he will be gone, but I don't like the tall WR. That could be an old way of thinking. Maybe he doesn't need Evans to execute his system.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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I don't know a ton about him but don't at least a few scouts think he could potentially be Jimmy Graham caliber?
They do. I've read that several times. But I'm struggling with the comparison.

Graham is a lot taller and longer. Graham's wingspan is much much larger than Ebron.

Ebron is Jermichael Finley to me. But his wingspan allows defenses to cover him with a safety. To me, the great TEs are too fast for the LB and too big for the safety.

Ebron is too fast for LBs but he's small enough that a SS can cover him. That isn't an elite TE prospect to me.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Maybe through use of formations and player movement, within the formations like Ace-Y Trips and so on, we can manipulate match ups to favor us. That's what I am excited about. I'd love to see a SS on a 6'4 guy who make insane 1 handed catches. Bring that sky safety down. Go single high against us.

I would love to see Ace-Double Tight with useless AR and Ebron with RR and Cruz as X and Z. Have Jennings or Wilson come out and check release. So many options I am excited for. No more drop back 5 or 7 steps religiously and wait for them to run their adjustment.
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Old 03-25-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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They do. I've read that several times. But I'm struggling with the comparison.

Graham is a lot taller and longer. Graham's wingspan is much much larger than Ebron.

Ebron is Jermichael Finley to me. But his wingspan allows defenses to cover him with a safety. To me, the great TEs are too fast for the LB and too big for the safety.

Ebron is too fast for LBs but he's small enough that a SS can cover him. That isn't an elite TE prospect to me.
Yeah I guess 3" makes a world of difference.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I think Ebron is more Gates than anything. I don't think he's as strong, which is the problem with projecting him to a level that high. I've come to terms with the pick because I honestly don't see us going with anyone else, although I would like Barr or Lewan more.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Maybe through use of formations and player movement, within the formations like Ace-Y Trips and so on, we can manipulate match ups to favor us. That's what I am excited about. I'd love to see a SS on a 6'4 guy who make insane 1 handed catches. Bring that sky safety down. Go single high against us.

I would love to see Ace-Double Tight with useless AR and Ebron with RR and Cruz as X and Z. Have Jennings or Wilson come out and check release. So many options I am excited for. No more drop back 5 or 7 steps religiously and wait for them to run their adjustment.
6 4" isn't that big anymore. We have 6 1" CBs coming out regularly now, we have 6 3" 220 SS coming out, having a 6 4" TE isn't a mismatch. You can put a DB on him.

Gronk being 6 7" with a gigantic wingspan, Jimmy Graham having an insane wingspan, those are the new mismatch. You can't put DBs on those guys.

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Yeah I guess 3" makes a world of difference.
Tehe.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I like Martin at that pick. Solid prospect and the ability to play both guard and tackle if need be. Seems like a good fit for us because he is supposedly a better prospect than Pugh. Martin very well could play LT if Beatty can't do it or even RG. We can still go guard in round 2 with Gabe Jackson or the UCLA guy.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Ebron with a not so good showing at the Pro Day dropping a decent number of balls. Good bye, dont want you at 12 one bit.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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XFS is going to be a round 1 pick most likely. There's going to be a really good G prospect available in the 2nd for us. That's why I desperately want to move back and collect an extra 2nd rounder. Move back and take OL, get another OLmen in round 2, and grab a skill position player with the extra 2nd round pick.

I have no problem loading up on OL if it means getting another 2nd rounder.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Ebron with a not so good showing at the Pro Day dropping a decent number of balls. Good bye, dont want you at 12 one bit.
Add this to the list of reasons why I don't want him. I just don't see it with Ebron.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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6 4" isn't that big anymore. We have 6 1" CBs coming out regularly now, we have 6 3" 220 SS coming out, having a 6 4" TE isn't a mismatch. You can put a DB on him.

Gronk being 6 7" with a gigantic wingspan, Jimmy Graham having an insane wingspan, those are the new mismatch. You can't put DBs on those guys.



Tehe.
That's why you're scheming and utilize this player to win mismatches. Teams aren't going to put a CB on Ebron. He still would have 3 inches on them. And if you want to put a sky safety on Ebron, then do it, by all means.

Now you will go single high against our personnel. That safety better have good agility and hips to change direction on arrow, square ins, and digs. I want to be able to run levels, crossers, and mesh with guys like RR, Cruz, and JJ. Let's see who can keep up with their man.
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