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Old 04-07-2014, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Then why would you dismiss any position? Especially if that potential exists?
We dont need a DT that badly. We can fill that spot later in the draft. For BBD, we can use it as a developmental DT in the 4th round. I am sure he can warm up to that very well.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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How do you not see a need when all we have is Jenkins, Hankins, Kuhn, and Patterson? Not exactly that good or deep there and I like Hankins upside potential.
How many DTs do you want? You can always draft one later and bring in undrafted FAs to fill the spot. I need to see more of Hankins. I hope he can fill in for LinJo.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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How many DTs do you want? You can always draft one later and bring in undrafted FAs to fill the spot. I need to see more of Hankins. I hope he can fill in for LinJo.
If we draft a DT high up then you cut Kuhn. The overall talent level at DT is subpar.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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If we draft a DT high up then you cut Kuhn. The overall talent level at DT is subpar.
The coaching staff is high on Kuhn, who if you remember was kept instead of S. Rodgers. They like Kuhn a lot because of little wear and tear and they think they can develop him.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Kuhn sucks. Hasn't shown a thing yet. Not very big either.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Kuhn sucks. Hasn't shown a thing yet. Not very big either.
I agree, but they seem to like him. So that's why I don't see him getting cut. If this franchise has one thing it's patience with their picks. So I think we may go DT later on or bring in undrafted FAs.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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saying they kept Kuhn over Rogers isn't saying much at all. I freaking love Rogers but he could barely move by the time he was a Giant, really.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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saying they kept Kuhn over Rogers isn't saying much at all. I freaking love Rogers but he could barely move by the time he was a Giant, really.
He was coming off the blot clot. He was actually okay better and more proven than freaking Kuhn, who played football all of a few years. My point is they liked Kuhn. They saw him as a guy who can develop. We like that sort of thing with our front office. Hence, we take flyers on players. One being Marvin Austin, who showed skills, but got kicked off the team. I still remember Reese calling him a first rounder. Austin would have been our 3 T, but he stunk. Do we go DT in the first round? Honestly, I highly doubt that.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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And Donald plays a different position than all the DTs we have. Except Patterson really. None of the them are that stud 3 technique that Donald projects to.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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He was coming off the blot clot. He was actually okay better and more proven than freaking Kuhn, who played football all of a few years. My point is they liked Kuhn. They saw him as a guy who can develop. We like that sort of thing with our front office. Hence, we take flyers on players. One being Marvin Austin, who showed skills, but got kicked off the team. I still remember Reese calling him a first rounder. Austin would have been our 3 T, but he stunk. Do we go DT in the first round? Honestly, I highly doubt that.
I feel austin and Kuhn are way different stories. We still just need talent at DT pretty badly. Especially since I'm pretty sure Jenkins was rumored to be moving to LE. Although with Ayers, I'm not sure if that's gonna happen. Still, Kuhn and/or Patterson aren't going to keep us from drafting Donald, at all.

And we've missed on DT's before high, so does that really mean we should just stop trying to draft them high? Because we've messed up before?


It's all really moot since we know the Giants stick to their board. It's all a matter of thinking how we think our board is going to be shaped
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Still, Kuhn and/or Patterson aren't going to keep us from drafting Donald, at all.
So very true. Let's not take Evans because we have Jernigan on the team while we are at it.
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Old 04-07-2014, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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And Donald plays a different position than all the DTs we have. Except Patterson really. None of the them are that stud 3 technique that Donald projects to.
Fewell always had bigger 3Ts. There was a report out a while back saying that Donald wasn't your Fewell 3T.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I feel austin and Kuhn are way different stories. We still just need talent at DT pretty badly. Especially since I'm pretty sure Jenkins was rumored to be moving to LE. Although with Ayers, I'm not sure if that's gonna happen. Still, Kuhn and/or Patterson aren't going to keep us from drafting Donald, at all.

And we've missed on DT's before high, so does that really mean we should just stop trying to draft them high? Because we've messed up before?


It's all really moot since we know the Giants stick to their board. It's all a matter of thinking how we think our board is going to be shaped
No, but it's not a need. We have other positions to fill that meet value better. Plus I am not impressed with Donald at all. Midget of a 3T who relies on speed. He is a smaller Tommie Harris. Harris had lower leg injuries and became useless. Donald is smaller than that. I don't like him with the 12th pick at all.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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No, but it's not a need. We have other positions to fill that meet value better. Plus I am not impressed with Donald at all. Midget of a 3T who relies on speed. He is a smaller Tommie Harris. Harris had lower leg injuries and became useless. Donald is smaller than that. I don't like him with the 12th pick at all.
I'd take the first 5 years the Bears got out of Harris.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Harris is also bigger. If Donald was around 6'3 295-300 I'd think about it. I still wouldn't want a DT that early, but it would be more of okay wait and see.

But not for Donald. Like I said way too many good offensive players there for the driving force of this team. Plus, I have a feeling the Cowboys trade up for Donald.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Harris is also bigger. If Donald was around 6'3 295-300 I'd think about it. I still wouldn't want a DT that early, but it would be more of okay wait and see.

But not for Donald. Like I said way too many good offensive players there for the driving force of this team. Plus, I have a feeling the Cowboys trade up for Donald.
I like that is he 6'1" 285. I'm sure he can get up to 295 by his second year. Plus he's stronger than most at that size.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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but with these offensive positions, this draft is so deep, we can get a similar quality player later on. the DL depth of this class is pretty much garbage
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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My reaction to you warming up to a DT, defensive player. LOL. Well no kidding. Like a fish warming up to water.
My dislike for 1st round DTs is well documented. However, Donald does have the qualities that I like in a DT. He's high motor. Incredibly high motor. One of the biggest motors I've seen, reminds me of JPP's motor in college. He's athletic, he's a student of the game and not lazy. He doesn't rely on superior athleticism to win in college, he uses technique.

All of those skills translate well to the pros. The majority of DTs bust bc they were so superior to their counterparts in college that they didn't have to work on technique or effort to "win". They were just bigger and badder than almost all the interior OLmen they played against. Either that or they were borderline too big and got fat and lazy in the pros. But it's either difficulty learning technique, or getting fat and lazy that leads to so much failure with DTs.

That doesn't seem to be a problem for Donald. He's a technician, he LOVES football, he wont' be one of those I got paid and won't try guys, and he has a non stop motor. Very intelligent player.

My concerns are that I don't view him as a guy who can become the focal point of protection schemes, he's gonna need someone on the edge to slide protection so he can slant into gaps to be an effective player in the NFL.

However, it's pretty much understood that the Giants will also put high value on having a stable of DEs who will slide protection so having a guy like Donald to compliment that would be ideal for us.

Now scheme wise, he's just a 3rd down rusher in Fewell's scheme bc Fewell stacks his DTs on 1st and 2nd down. So now the question becomes, do you value interior pressure on 3rd down enough to validate it as a top 12 selection?

For me, I do value it that much. After qb, pressure on the opposition's qb is easily the most important ability to have as a football team and having the ability to generate interior pressure on 3rd down, the "money down" is something I would spend a 1st round pick on.

I studied Donald quite a bit and after establishing his value to our team, I think that value is sufficient to be selected in the 1st round.
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Old 04-07-2014, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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There are so few players in the league who can generate pressure up the middle from the tackle position. If he can do that, which most think he can, he's worth the pick. I know that's pretty simplistic but that kind of QB pressure is rare at the moment.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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plus he fits in perfectly next to big hank. they compliment each other so well.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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The question isn't if he can generate pressure on the interior the way I see it. The question is, can he do it all 3 downs?

Right now I think he's a 3rd down interior rusher who needs to develop to become a 3 down player. I don't know how effective he can be on 1st and 2nd down.

That's why Geno fell to the 4th. That's why Jordan Hill fell to the 3rd last year.

Donald needs to put on 10 lbs before he can be considered a 3 down DT. And in this defensive system, he can't be bc he can't stack. He's a 3 tech through and through.

But I like his potential in the future, and I think he'll be worth the selection. At the very worst if he's just a 3rd down rusher I still think there's enough value in that to make him worth the selection.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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My dislike for 1st round DTs is well documented. However, Donald does have the qualities that I like in a DT. He's high motor. Incredibly high motor. One of the biggest motors I've seen, reminds me of JPP's motor in college. He's athletic, he's a student of the game and not lazy. He doesn't rely on superior athleticism to win in college, he uses technique.

All of those skills translate well to the pros. The majority of DTs bust bc they were so superior to their counterparts in college that they didn't have to work on technique or effort to "win". They were just bigger and badder than almost all the interior OLmen they played against. Either that or they were borderline too big and got fat and lazy in the pros. But it's either difficulty learning technique, or getting fat and lazy that leads to so much failure with DTs.

That doesn't seem to be a problem for Donald. He's a technician, he LOVES football, he wont' be one of those I got paid and won't try guys, and he has a non stop motor. Very intelligent player.

My concerns are that I don't view him as a guy who can become the focal point of protection schemes, he's gonna need someone on the edge to slide protection so he can slant into gaps to be an effective player in the NFL.

However, it's pretty much understood that the Giants will also put high value on having a stable of DEs who will slide protection so having a guy like Donald to compliment that would be ideal for us.

Now scheme wise, he's just a 3rd down rusher in Fewell's scheme bc Fewell stacks his DTs on 1st and 2nd down. So now the question becomes, do you value interior pressure on 3rd down enough to validate it as a top 12 selection?

For me, I do value it that much. After qb, pressure on the opposition's qb is easily the most important ability to have as a football team and having the ability to generate interior pressure on 3rd down, the "money down" is something I would spend a 1st round pick on.

I studied Donald quite a bit and after establishing his value to our team, I think that value is sufficient to be selected in the 1st round.

I never knew you disliked 1st round DTs. That's a surprising comment actually. I figured you warm up easily to any position defense, hehe.

I do agree you can't focus on around him. Plus DTs like that are build on their legs and speed. The running joke with our team has always been the guys with lower leg injuries riding the bike during practice. We used to have SO many guys on it the media called it Tour de france guys. lol. If we do draft him we better hope he never gets an injury that messes with his legs. With short arms, and light weight, once OL lock themselves on him, it's over. However, he relies on his low center of gravity and lower legs to explode off the ball.

His whole game low center of gravity which is the cause of his explosive first step. His lower stature worries me a lot. I wish he was 6'3 or 6'4. That helps a lot on 3 step drops and short concept plays. Why? Remember what Mic'd up with brady said about our DL? It's like throwing in a forest! Their arms are.. ::shakes head:: and looks at Wes Welker. Well being short and short arms aren't going to cut it. You can't teach height and speed. Donald has speed but he is short. Which means on short concept plays the QB has B gap to throw over him.

I don't value him enough to draft him. If we draft him, he needs to be playing A LOT to validate that pick at 12. No way can he be player like that especially like I said if teams can get rid of it quickly to negate our pass rush.

We need to learn how to blitz and actually get home on passing downs.


I don't see him as a fit for our defense. I can see the Cowboys drafting him though.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully if we pass, the Bears jump on him before the Cowboys.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully if we pass, the Bears jump on him before the Cowboys.
More likely Tampa trading back for him.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Tampa is going to take Evans or Watkins.
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