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Old 05-06-2014, 09:17 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Back on the rumours that the Giants are open to trading Ryan Nassib. I was thinking about the idea of packaging Nassib to move up earlier.

In this this year's draft Nassib has probably 2nd round value as a QB
(this his value as a QB in this draft, not the pick we could get in a trade)

Using the trade value chart and mid second round value packeged with our first round pick at #12 puts us at 1600 points which is around pick #6

I could see three teams in that range being willing to make this kind of trade, Oakland, Tampa Bay and Minnesota.

All three teams need a QB and at least Minnesota and Oakland badly want to trade down.

Moreover I think Nassib is a good fit for the kind of offenses that Greg Olsen, Jeff Tedford and Norv Turner run.

All three teams have older veterans as starters in Matt Schaub, Josh McCown or Matt Cassel. This gives them a low key option to get a good young QB to groom without the pressure/expectation from fans that comes with an early draft pick, particularly at QB.

Trading up will let us draft Greg Robinson, Jake Matthews or Mike Evans

They still get to have a quality talent at 12.

Looking at it, I could really see this happening.

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Old 05-07-2014, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't pay a 2nd rounder for Nassib. I'd give you a 6th or 7th rounder for him.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Why in this year's draft does he have a 2nd round value? This draft is much deeper at QB and at other positions than his draft was. We'd have to start at 5th round pick. He hasn't done anything to improve his value.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Why in this year's draft does he have a 2nd round value? This draft is much deeper at QB and at other positions than his draft was. We'd have to start at 5th round pick. He hasn't done anything to improve his value.
Reese had Nassib as a second round value last year.

Since then he has had a season of development within an NFL team. In this case with a successfull franchise and working with Coughlin and Eli so he is well placed to learn all the tricks needed to be successful in the NFL.

This year's QBs are terrible. I would say Nassib is on par with Derek Carr as a prospect and better than Garropolo etc.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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I don't see what Reese's grade on him has to do with anything. If we dealt Nassib we'd get nothing better than a 4th at minimum.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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I'd doubt we get even that. Like a car, when driven off the lot, it loses value. Now if that QB has PT and produces had a high level that drives up the players value. Like Nick Foles has boosted his value big time.

Nassib hasn't done anything thus you are losing value on him, until he plays and produces.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I'd doubt we get even that. Like a car, when driven off the lot, it loses value. Now if that QB has PT and produces had a high level that drives up the players value. Like Nick Foles has boosted his value big time.

Nassib hasn't done anything thus you are losing value on him, until he plays and produces.
perhaps in some cases, but then again there are worse jobs than to be Eli's backup.

I could still see something with Minnesota for example if there was the need, that is around third round value.

Anyway, it was hypothetical thinking exploring the general concept. I still think it is a viable idea.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I'd doubt we get even that. Like a car, when driven off the lot, it loses value. Now if that QB has PT and produces had a high level that drives up the players value. Like Nick Foles has boosted his value big time.

Nassib hasn't done anything thus you are losing value on him, until he plays and produces.
I do agree but I didn't want to be mean. We all know how I feel about Nassib here.
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Old 05-08-2014, 04:16 AM    (permalink
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I'm high on Nassib and I don't think a team will offer anything more than a 4th for him. I think his value comes in packaging him with a draft pick to move up. It makes far more sense to keep him and develop him.
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Old 05-08-2014, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Reese had Nassib as a second round value last year.

Since then he has had a season of development within an NFL team. In this case with a successfull franchise and working with Coughlin and Eli so he is well placed to learn all the tricks needed to be successful in the NFL.

This year's QBs are terrible. I would say Nassib is on par with Derek Carr as a prospect and better than Garropolo etc.
That is your opinion, which does not seem to gel with the opinion of the people who will actually be making the choices.

And no one will care what Reese's value was last year. It's only how other people value him. And no one valued him enough to use a pick on him until when we did in round 4. Four other QBs went ahead of him last year. Where do you think Geno Smith and Ej Manuel would rate this year? The 6th and 7th overall QB?

Nassib has no value. He has to establish some.
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Old 05-09-2014, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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The first round of the draft is interesting with Odell Beckham

I have been looking over the off-season and have some thoughts on what we may expect in the draft.

John Mara has talked about fixing our broken offense, McAdoo wants a top 4 offense and Reese expects our first three rounds of picks to contribute right away.

In free agency we have plugged a lot of gaps with good depth at most positions, with the exception of offensive skill positions. In general I think we are ok with the players we have and will look for development/upside players in day three of the draft.

With the positional depth and talent, here is what I expect in the rest of the draft.

Looking at the depth (particularly compared with other positions), I think the intent is to focus on offensive skill positions in the first three rounds of this draft.

At RB we have Jennings but he is 29 and the depth behind is limited. I know we have Wilson but neck injuries can be dicey and relying on his availability is risky. Also Wilson is not a good blocker and McAdoo has clearly stated that is a priority for his RBs. I think we will add a RB somewhere on day 2, the likely candidates being Carlos Hyde, Jeremy Hill and Bishop Sankey.

The other position I expect to see is another receiving weapon, either a TE or WR (best player available). I am not sold that Reese sees TE as a priority.
As far as another WR, we did draft Beckham, but I think we could still add one. Randle and Jernigan are inconsistent and won't be relied upon. I think we could try and get a ton of depth like we have at CB and OL with competition for playing time. Reese doesn't tend to draft receivers after the third round. Given the WR depth this year, there is likely to be a quality talent available when we pick in the third round. Likely options at WR include Jarvis Landy and Allen Robinson, more physical kind of guys who run good routes and can be an asset in the green zone.

I expect day three will be developmental/upside players at DL, LB, OL, S and TE (if we dont draft a TE on day 2)

If this happened and we went WR and RB our depth chart would be something like


That's my thinking anyway based on comments, depth chart and this draft class.

Guess we will find out soon
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I'm not crazy about the pick but I don't hate it. To be honest I don't know a ton about Beckham. However both players I would have preferred were taken already. And I thought 12 was too early for Martin. The whole time I was like "Are we really going to take Donald?!?".

It seemed like a McAdoo pick to me. He appears to have a ton of influence. And we have some decent depth at WR now.

O-line might not be as important. Packers always had prolific offenses with no name O-linemen. In this offense Eli should be getting rid of the ball a lot quicker than in our old one.
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Old 05-09-2014, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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I wanted Martin. After thinking about it I do like the pick. Explosive WR! I always said we needed speed or home run ability. Outside of Cruz this team doesn't have that home run hitter. Wilson is a question mark. And also Cruz is going to have to learn a new system and coming back from injury.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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And hopefully this new system will allow for rookie WRs to contribute more quickly.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Randle is the only big target we have. That's a little worrisome.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Randle is the only big target we have. That's a little worrisome.
This is a YAC offense. I don't think we'll be seeing as many sideline jump ball throws.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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New system. The whole big target thing is over stated. Plax was our big WR.

Everyone else wasn't "big". We had Mario, Smith, Toomer (bigger), and Cruz.
RR is bigger.

Reese, on giants.com, addressed that saying the Seahawks WRs aren't big either but they won. I think our new system will be more WCO and favor YAC. In fact, I think we see more X or Z hot, bubble screens and quick concept passing.

Throw the ball 1 or 2 yards, and have Cruz, JJ, and Odell run like the wind. No more drop 7 steps, and sit in the pocket for an hour to wait for the WR to make the right adjustment. In the end ball goes one way, and WR goes another. I am tired of that.

Your route is your route. Throw the ball and have the guys play fast because the thought process is simplified.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I like it then. It's going to take a little time for me to switch my thinking over since we were so used to Gilbride.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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And where the hell is BBD? He couldn't sneak on for 2 minutes for his thoughts.
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I like it then. It's going to take a little time for me to switch my thinking over since we were so used to Gilbride.
Silently, I been noticing that with Giants fans. They been stuck in the mentality of the old system, which is understandable. I was thinking if a kid was born in year 2000. He may not remember Shockey. So all the TEs that person would be used to are average TE. So would be against Ebron not because of talent, but because we never had a good TE.

Also, fans need to clear their cache regarding old system tendencies. That's the observation I am seeing among Giants fans in general on BBI.

In fact, I see more 3-4 WR sets like in the GB system.

So: Odell, Cruz, RR, and JJ
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Old 05-09-2014, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Def should have a ton more YAC this year.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:24 AM    (permalink
Mel Pipeher
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Besides a playmaker, we needed a WR to stretch the field and take the top off. I was hoping to get that guy in the 2nd or 3rd with guys like Moncrief or Richardson but in the end I'm happy with Beckham. They say he's a very polished route runner as well and he can help in the return game. He seems like a great kid from the interviews I watched.
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Old 05-09-2014, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Hmm....

So if Reese wants guys who contribute right away withthe first three picks then where would that take us? My assumption is that we would have to look at the positions with shallow depth right.
C, TE, and S with the immediate need coming from TE and C

Looks like Sefarian-Jenkins or Amaro could be the picks, Nicklaus seems less plug and play. But at 12 they seem like a bit of a reach.

As for WR in the 3rd round....I would actually be very happy with Jarvis Landry or Lattimer, however another WR doesn't fit the requirement of being able to contribute right away, the Depth chart is full. I would love Martavius Bryant in the fourth though.
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Old 05-09-2014, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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@TomRock_Newsday: Pugh on new offense: "It’s a lot different than the offense we ran last year where you are huddling up and it’s run the ball, run the ball."
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Old 05-09-2014, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Justin Pugh Says New Offense Will Be Up Tempo: Offensive lineman Justin Pugh told Newsday on Friday that the new offensive system under new offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo will be up tempo.

The philosophy that (McAdoo) is installing in the offense is something that we did at Syracuse, the fast-paced, no-huddle, attack the defense I love it. It’s a lot different than the offense that we ran last year where you are huddling up and it’s run the ball, run the ball. Watching Green Bay, we’ll probably do some of the similar stuff that they did. So I’m excited to get out there and try it out against our defense.
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