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Old 07-30-2014, 10:38 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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He's done. :(
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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He's done. :(
Oh yeah. Hated the pick at the time then saw him and liked it a little better but never thought this was going to happen. NEVER take a RB in the 1st!!!!
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Well, looking back: I had it like this:

1. Stephen Hill (whoops!)
2. Cordy Glenn
3. Rueben Randle
4. David Wilson

as my list of guys when it was our turn to pick. So I probably would've taken Hill and screwed up as well. I loved Turbin in that draft too :(
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Yea I loved Hill as well. I guess we would have messed up that year no matter what.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:53 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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That might be our worst draft of the past 7 years.

1. Wilson - bust
2. Randle - book is out, let's pray he turns it around in the new offense
3. Hoseley - dud
4. Robinson - book is out, not looking good
5. Brandon Moseley - book is out, looking eh
6. Didn't we trade this pick for some ********?
7. McCants - sucked for us, goes to the Raiders and winds up being a serviceable RT

There's a good chance that we'll wind up having NO players from that draft that panned out. Imagine how terrible that would be.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Yea it's not good. Awful awful awful draft. Randle is the only player who can save it somewhat.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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I still have hope for Robinson too. I know that's crazy, and I really have no reason to believe in him, but I believeeeeeeeee.

I like Donnell too.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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I believe but I like Donnell better. He seems to have some Ballard in him which would be good enough for the offense this year.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Guys I just realized.... no one expects anything from us this year!

That means Super Bowl!
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Don't jinx it!

I think Donnell is more athletic than Ballard. But they use their bodies to create space the same way.
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I like that we are looking at more versatile options to use the FB much like the Packers with Kuhn, particularly in single back sets on passing downs.

what you are talking about reminds me a lot of what we did with Shockey under Fassel, which admittedly worked well.
Are our TEs athletic enough? with Fassel we had Shockey, Shiancoe, Rivers and Dinkins - very different skills to what we have now. Even the Packers have more athletic TEs than our current bunch.

Do we have the TEs to do the job?
Not sure, We have been hearing good things from Donnel and Fells I believe. If they can do it or just be decent, I'd put them in the FB spot at times. The ability to change to many different formations is a big time asset.
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I wonder how long Reese and Ross get before they get heat. How many first round picks have been hurt for us?

Wilson, Kiwi, Ross, Prince, Nicks, JPP, Kenny P, off the top of my head. Pugh so far has stayed healthy. But damn that's a lot of 1st rounders that have been hurt. I am curious to see how much medical or projecting injuries goes into our scouting.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone can project an injury to players who were healthy throughout college.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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I don't think anyone can project an injury to players who were healthy throughout college.
Well, in general then. How much, I wonder, does medical or projected medical factor in when evaluating a prospect?

And when we do draft them, does our strength and conditioning guys ever get graded to others in the NFL or standard? If everyone is getting a hammy or certain type of injury, does another program or workout design eliminate or reduce this?
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Well, looking back: I had it like this:

1. Stephen Hill (whoops!)
2. Cordy Glenn
3. Rueben Randle
4. David Wilson

as my list of guys when it was our turn to pick. So I probably would've taken Hill and screwed up as well. I loved Turbin in that draft too :(
Looking back is interesting

Considering who was available, I wanted Cordy Glenn

the other first round guys I wanted all went early and there were a lot of guys who were decent, none really stood out for me.

Randle wasn't really on my radar and I wasn't a fan of taking a RB early.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Well, in general then. How much, I wonder, does medical or projected medical factor in when evaluating a prospect?

And when we do draft them, does our strength and conditioning guys ever get graded to others in the NFL or standard? If everyone is getting a hammy or certain type of injury, does another program or workout design eliminate or reduce this?
It does play into it sure, but I think it is the more long term medical issues. It all comes back to risk vs reward

Injuries are part of football and some nicks and bumps are inevitable. Some things like hamstrings are things that happen and take time.
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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So, not to get people overly optimistic but my brother is a sports PT and said that it is very possible Wilson is done forever, but if the burner is minor it is something that won't keep him off the field for long. He's optimistic, so I'll keep being optimistic.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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So, not to get people overly optimistic but my brother is a sports PT and said that it is very possible Wilson is done forever, but if the burner is minor it is something that won't keep him off the field for long. He's optimistic, so I'll keep being optimistic.
He's done bro. The Giants are already leaking news through the media that they highly doubt he'll ever play again. I pretty much felt this way last season when the news came out so it's not surprising. It's sad, the dude would've been special if his body didn't fail him.

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Well, in general then. How much, I wonder, does medical or projected medical factor in when evaluating a prospect?

And when we do draft them, does our strength and conditioning guys ever get graded to others in the NFL or standard? If everyone is getting a hammy or certain type of injury, does another program or workout design eliminate or reduce this?
I've been saying this forever, I think we need to fire our strength and conditioning staff. Just now Coughlin has incorporated more stretching into their regimen to reduce hammy injuries. Why did it take 10 years when we've been talking about more stretching for at least 4 years on this forum alone?

The Giants have had more injuries the past 3 years than any other team. And guys who have been healthy their whole careers come to the Giants and start developing nagging injuries (Chris Canty & Michael Boley being a prime example). That's not a coincidence. We're doing something wrong.

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Looking back is interesting

Considering who was available, I wanted Cordy Glenn

the other first round guys I wanted all went early and there were a lot of guys who were decent, none really stood out for me.

Randle wasn't really on my radar and I wasn't a fan of taking a RB early.
I was a big Randle fan. I had a 1st round grade on him. So I was glad we got him in the 2nd. I think this could potentially be a big year for him, but I have to see it first. Can't have anymore miscommunication. The new system should eliminate that but you don't know until you know.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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.



I've been saying this forever, I think we need to fire our strength and conditioning staff. Just now Coughlin has incorporated more stretching into their regimen to reduce hammy injuries. Why did it take 10 years when we've been talking about more stretching for at least 4 years on this forum alone?

The Giants have had more injuries the past 3 years than any other team. And guys who have been healthy their whole careers come to the Giants and start developing nagging injuries (Chris Canty & Michael Boley being a prime example). That's not a coincidence. We're doing something wrong.
.

Yeah someone has to go.. So many 1st rounders have been broken. Factor in busts, and not getting return on our investment, ie Jones, and we have stunk in drafting.

That's so many 1st rounders for us that got hurt. If.. and that's an IF, Wilson can't play, that's a huge swing and miss that we didn't get a return on our investment. Wilson and Chad Jones fall in that category.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Randle will be a monster this year with no thinking. He clearly couldn't take to the old system.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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I don't think you can blame the front office for Wilson and Jones getting hurt. That's just awful luck.

But everything else, yeah, you can lay some blame on them for sure.

And if all of these offensive weapons magically start thriving in a new offensive system, then you can also lay a lot of criticism on our coaching staff as well, bc think about how much better our offense could've been all these years if the change was made earlier.

That's obviously a projection on my part and it may turn out to be false, but I'm just saying.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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No WR could take the old system. I think how many WR busts in the last 10 years would have succeeded in this new system?

How about Ramses Barden? Running slants and using his height to his adv. without having to worry about adjustments.. How about Derek Hagan? How about Moss? If JJ can do some things then why not Sinorice Moss?

So many Wrs I wonder if they would have succeeded in this system, rather then the system that required a Phd.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I don't think you can blame the front office for Wilson and Jones getting hurt. That's just awful luck.

But everything else, yeah, you can lay some blame on them for sure.

And if all of these offensive weapons magically start thriving in a new offensive system, then you can also lay a lot of criticism on our coaching staff as well, bc think about how much better our offense could've been all these years if the change was made earlier.

That's obviously a projection on my part and it may turn out to be false, but I'm just saying.
No, but you still from a business point, have ZERO return on your investment. Luck, or no luck, we still swung and missed with a 1st rounder and a 3rd. Again, factor in injuries, busts, and this and you get a mess these past years.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
No WR could take the old system. I think how many WR busts in the last 10 years would have succeeded in this new system?

How about Ramses Barden? Running slants and using his height to his adv. without having to worry about adjustments.. How about Derek Hagan? How about Moss? If JJ can do some things then why not Sinorice Moss?

So many Wrs I wonder if they would have succeeded in this system, rather then the system that required a Phd.
But then you had Nicks, Cruz, Smith, Hixon and others that got it right away. It's such a weird thing looking back.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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If I didn't have a policy of not drafting any Giants players (unless desperate), I would grab a couple of guys later in the draft this year as sleepers.

Randle, Robinson/Donald are solid options. Jennings too.
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