< Xio's 7th Annual NFLDC Fantasy Baseball League > - Page 40

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

No you didn't. Uggla is a better player now, and is, at worst, equal value to Lawrie as a keeper.

If you're keeping CJ Wilson, you've got some ugly keepers.

Uggla is on the hottest streak of his career. Stop overrating him. Even though he has nice power numbers, career wise he's proven to be a liabilitiy with his poor batting avg. Even in OBP... even though his hot streak, his OBP is only .297. GF soured on him a long time ago. Not until now has he been tradable. I don't blame him for selling while he's hot.

Lawrie is a stud prospect who will qualify at 2B and 3B. His keeper potential is better than Uggla. ...and it's not really that close, seeing as he's already showing realization on that potential in his short time that he's been up.

Wilson as a bad keeper option? This coming from the guy that loves to gobble up Rangers players. Why wouldn't you consider keeping their ace? Just shhhh. Worry about your own team and not try to belittle others' roster moves.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

No you didn't. Uggla is a better player now, and is, at worst, equal value to Lawrie as a keeper.

If you're keeping CJ Wilson, you've got some ugly keepers.

Lawrie was a top 10 prospect on any midseason list and considering his positional value and age is way more of a better keeper than Uggla. Uggla brings very good power numbers but little much. I had Uggla through his power surge part of the hit streak anyway albeit missing 2 or 3 of the 15 HR's. Like I said Lawrie has been even better than Uggla over that time period though.

As for Wilson he's one of the most underrated pitchers in the game today playing in a high run scoring stadium. He's not a true #1 but his last two years have shown us he's a good #2 on most staffs in baseball and that translates to fantasy. My SP is not very good so combine that plus Wilson's good numbers in ERA, WHIP, k/9, k% and the chance he moves into a better park next year absolutely makes him a keeper. Closers are a dime a dozen so Walden was a good piece for D but did nothing for my team now or in the future. I'll get the new Walden on my team next year.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Uggla is on the hottest streak of his career. Stop overrating him. Even though he has nice power numbers, career wise he's proven to be a liabilitiy with his poor batting avg. Even in OBP... even though his hot streak, his OBP is only .297. GF soured on him a long time ago. Not until now has he been tradable. I don't blame him for selling while he's hot.

Lawrie is a stud prospect who will qualify at 2B and 3B. His keeper potential is better than Uggla. ...and it's not really that close, seeing as he's already showing realization on that potential in his short time that he's been up.

Wilson as a bad keeper option? This coming from the guy that loves to gobble up Rangers players. Why wouldn't you consider keeping their ace? Just shhhh. Worry about your own team and not try to belittle others' roster moves.

"Shhh....stop pointing out how I consistantly rip people off in trades."

GF gave you a top 50 player now for a guy with potential. You could fill an encyclopedia with players that had great potential and never amounted to anything.

Uggla has an OBP of .369, .354, and .360 in the last three years, reaching 30+ homeruns in all three of those years. You're trying way too hard to make his case, and it's obvious why.

I vetoed the trade, and I would guess that if more people were actually paying attention, they would too. GF lost on all accounts.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 04:33 PM

You're incredibly wrong on this BF.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 04:41 PM

I bet Lawrie has a better year than Uggla next year.

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

"Shhh....stop pointing out how I consistantly rip people off in trades."

GF gave you a top 50 player now for a guy with potential. You could fill an encyclopedia with players that had great potential and never amounted to anything.

Uggla has an OBP of .369, .354, and .360 in the last three years, reaching 30+ homeruns in all three of those years. You're trying way too hard to make his case, and it's obvious why.

I vetoed the trade, and I would guess that if more people were actually paying attention, they would too. GF lost on all accounts.

Hmm... traded for Tommy Hunter... on the DL after several ERA/WHIP killing games. Traded for Huston Street.... on the DL after several ERA/WHIP killing games. Traded for Grady Sizemore... he never got off the ground before getting back on the DL for the rest of the season. Traded you David Ortiz for Chris Young... stupid pitcher ended his season the day after I traded for him... Stop overexaggerating my trades. In trading, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it works out for both parties. ...and acting like my trades would've been vetoed if we had an active league is a ridiculous statement.

I have risen in the standings because of the trades I made, but that is also a part of game. One strategy for winning is making trades. I admit wheeling and dealing takes a certain gamesmanship too, but that's not a fantasy no no. I think part of being a good owner is changing things up... being a mover and a shaker. Also a part of the fun. You can't fault a guy for seeking out trade partners and working out trades. If you feel like there are guys incapable of making good decisions then those guys should be out of the league. With the veto option in place, there's no crying about trades that get passed. I don't appreciate the idea that I constantly rip guys off. If that really was the case, then people would not trade with me.

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 06:24 PM

I did not veto the trade, but I agree with BF on every point he made.

GF overvalues prospects to the extreme if he believe Lawrie's value will surpass Uggla's value in the next 2-3 seasons.

That's all I will say. I'm not getting into another debate over who got the best of who in a trade.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 06:32 PM

Can we all please remember how terrible Uggla has been this year? Even with that incredible streak his numbers are garbage. You guys are making Uggla out to be someone he's not. Heck when I drafted him last year year ago it was late in the draft. You're telling me his value is higher now than last year?

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Can we all please remember how terrible Uggla has been this year? Even with that incredible streak his numbers are garbage. You guys are making Uggla out to be someone he's not. Heck when I drafted him last year year ago it was late in the draft. You're telling me his value is higher now than last year?

You confuse "real baseball" value with fantasy baseball value. Uggla is still in the Top Ten among 2nd baseman in value this season. He ranks 108 overall.

He contributes very well in 3 of 5 offensive categories (R, HR, RBI) for a 2B, and his OBP this season is an aberration (look at the numbers BF posted earlier).

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

You confuse "real baseball" value with fantasy baseball value. Uggla is still in the Top Ten among 2nd baseman in value this season. He ranks 108 overall.

He contributes very well in 3 of 5 offensive categories (R, HR, RBI) for a 2B, and his OBP this season is an aberration (look at the numbers BF posted earlier).

He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better. I wasn't going anywhere this year and I got the younger player who's a hitting maching that also has 2B eligibility. I knew I was helping D out for the year but it's not like this was some highway robbery. A top 10 prospect for Dan Uggla is great value.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 06:43 PM

I'm not faulting you D. I envy you.

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better. I wasn't going anywhere this year and I got the younger player who's a hitting maching that also has 2B eligibility. I knew I was helping D out for the year but it's not like this was some highway robbery. A top 10 prospect for Dan Uggla is great value.

Agree to disagree. I do hope you find yourself in the top 6 of next year's standings or your conviction in these conversations will look silly.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

He's also going to be 32 next year and is starting to decline. Yes, his OBP as of right now is a aberration but even then it's still going to be mediocre at best by year end. Besides HR's next year Lawrie will have very similar numbers to Uggla if not better.

And what if he's not, and is Andy LaRoche instead? You had 100 dollars in your hand, and traded it to someone who had a briefcase that maybe had 100 dollars, or maybe was empty.

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 06:52 PM

I love a good analogy.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 06:55 PM

So going by that you should never have any young prospects or players on your team. Got it. Lawrie is as close to a guaranteed hitting prospect as there is. It's not like I traded him for a 20 year old in A ball.

Giantsfan1080 · 08-15-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

Agree to disagree. I do hope you find yourself in the top 6 of next year's standings or your conviction in these conversations will look silly.

Well I still need to put together a better pitching staff but I should be top 6 in most offensive stats. If Crawford didn't totally **** the bed this year I'd be a lot better off also.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 07:00 PM

No, you should never trade a really good fantasy player for a prospect, unless that prospect is Strasburg or maybe David Price.

Also, why do you think Lawrie is what you say he is? He's not a Jay Bruce type prospect. He's not even a Cameron Maybin type prospect.

I used to have the same rationale, and then I watched Xio win by picking up unsexy vets that nobody else wanted. The biggest reason I'm winning this year is because I drafted Berkman higher than anyone else would, I traded for David Ortiz when D thought his season was over (HA!) and I picked up Michael Cuddyer and Coco Crisp when somebody else didn't want them.

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

And what if he's not, and is Andy LaRoche instead? You had 100 dollars in your hand, and traded it to someone who had a briefcase that maybe had 100 dollars, or maybe was empty.

You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

No, you should never trade a really good fantasy player for a prospect, unless that prospect is Strasburg or maybe David Price.

Also, why do you think Lawrie is what you say he is? He's not a Jay Bruce type prospect. He's not even a Cameron Maybin type prospect.

I used to have the same rationale, and then I watched Xio win by picking up unsexy vets that nobody else wanted. The biggest reason I'm winning this year is because I drafted Berkman higher than anyone else would, I traded for David Ortiz when D thought his season was over (HA!) and I picked up Michael Cuddyer and Coco Crisp when somebody else didn't want them.

Actually, I very much knew the value of Ortiz, but he only qualifies at UTIL and I didn't like the flexibility that that took away. Also, at the time I had Travis Hafner who was having a decent beginning to the season and he only qualified at UTIL as well.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?

I LOVE following and developing prospects, you're right. It's why I created the whole "minor league" roster system.

That doesn't mean you trade established quality players for them.

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

I love a good analogy.

...when it fits your point of view. ;)

I'll ask you and BF... what would you offer me for Uggla?

Come children...let's not run and hide now...

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

You don't sound like a guy who was interested in starting up an AL only league where developing minors was the biggest draw.

Can you stop acting like prospects have no place/no value in fantasy baseball?

TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUES.

Prospects have value in a league half as deep (AL Only). And yet I am going to win that league for the second straight year by a wide margin without giving two shits about prospects. I basically ignore them completely.

BF has it totally right. If you want to toil in the bottom third of the standings forever, then by all means, hoard prospects. But if you want to win, then go for guys that produce now.

I'm going to laugh so hard when you guys are leaving productive veterans off your keeper list in favor of unproven prospects. A 2-month glimmer of potential is not enough to justify casting aside a reliable veteran.

bearsfan_51 · 08-15-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

...when it fits your point of view. ;)

I'll ask you and BF... what would you offer me for Uggla?

Come children...let's not run and hide now...

D, you know that you agree with me. Stop trying so hard.

Personally it's hard to answer because I have Robinson Cano.

Xiomera · 08-15-2011, 07:10 PM

Wait a minute! What am I doing giving away all of my secrets to success!?

GASP!

[/sarcasm]

D-Unit · 08-15-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I'm not faulting you D. I envy you.

That is an awesome quote! :)

I find trading is a matter of asking and working things out. Most of the time, nothing works out, but if you don't ask, you don't know. I never feel cocky enough to ever think that I don't need a trade because my team is doing good enough. It makes me feel unsettled, so I keep my wheels churning. You do it enough, good things can happen.