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Old 03-21-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
Maybe Next Year Millen2
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If Prince is gone, Detroit very well could take a OT because of Backus age/final year of contract not his play and the knee problems of Gosder. Backus has played well the last 2 years except for one giant mistake and all non Lions fans really only see the big mistake Week 1 and not how well he played the rest of the year or how well he played in 2009. But I think Detroit only takes a OT at 13 if they can't trade down which is the next best option after Prince falling. If they trade down its wide open what they will take from CB,OLB,OT,interior Oline(Pouncey) or even a DE if BPA.

A Rookie stud OT like Okung or Trent Williams or 2nd year Oher(who had some problems at LT last year) could make the same mistake against Peppers as the veteran Backus did. May have been worse with a rookie OT since that would have been the rookies first game. But you have to start somewhere and taking Tyron Smith or another OT would probably be the best pick for the long term success of the Lions. 2011 probably not as I think Backus would still be the LT and Gosder/rookie OT would battle for the RT position with probably the rookie stud tackle winning the job. Then in 2012, Smith or whoever would move over to LT. I'd rather have the veteran protecting Staffords blind side than a rookie right given how fragile he is.

And I don't fault Mayhew one bit for passing on Oher and Okung/Trent Williams. Pettigrew had 700 yards last year and is very valuable and Suh is a beast. This is the correct year to take a tackle based on value unless Prince falls.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Not even close, Miller is a much better prospect than Maybin and a top 5 talent.

What evidence do you have? Because if you watch tape, you realize Miller is purely a speed guy who has no pass rushing moves, how's he gonna do in the NFL? About as good as Maybin is doing? Is Miller a top 5 talent in this draft or any draft? In most drafts, he'd be top 15, but in this one, it's about need, not talent.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Trade down is another great option for the Bears if they feel the OL need is that big and do not want to risk an uncertain free agency period.

Someone I have been mocking to the Bears in the 2nd round is OG Clint Boling. He is not flashy or as physically impressive as Ijalana, but he is a tough mean lunch pale blocker that I could see Mike Tice falling in love with.

Not as much upside as Ijalana, but I think Boling starts Day 1 at LG for the Bears.
If we could get a 2nd and 3rd id do it 10 times out of 10. I like the depth of this draft for our needs.

I like Boling too. He could be a reach there and won't be a pro bowler but he's a good all around player and can be a 10 year starter.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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What evidence do you have? Because if you watch tape, you realize Miller is purely a speed guy who has no pass rushing moves, how's he gonna do in the NFL? About as good as Maybin is doing? Is Miller a top 5 talent in this draft or any draft? In most drafts, he'd be top 15, but in this one, it's about need, not talent.
Dunno about that. He's already pretty good at getting his hands inside, using leverage, and then extending to disengage from linemen. His outside and inside rips are already pretty devastating as well. Add one counter move off of that and combine it with his speed and explosion, and you're looking at a pretty devastating football player in a couple of seasons.

Speaking of watching the tape, he absolutely jumps off of the film. He knifes through traffic and chases plays down from the backside in the run game. Is he going to be overwhelmed at the point of attack as a rookie? **** yes, and I said in another thread that any coach that tries to use him as anything other than a situational pass rusher in his first year is a ******* idiot to begin with.

You compare him to Aaron Maybin, but Maybin didn't look half as good on tape as Miller does. Not only that, but he's extremely lazy and has put in zero work to make himself better.

Now, do I think that they should take Miller? Only if Cam Newton is gone. Because Newton and Chan Gailey together is going to be absolutely ******* awesome.

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Old 03-21-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Maybe Next Year Millen2 View Post
If Prince is gone, Detroit very well could take a OT because of Backus age/final year of contract not his play and the knee problems of Gosder. Backus has played well the last 2 years except for one giant mistake and all non Lions fans really only see the big mistake Week 1 and not how well he played the rest of the year or how well he played in 2009. But I think Detroit only takes a OT at 13 if they can't trade down which is the next best option after Prince falling. If they trade down its wide open what they will take from CB,OLB,OT,interior Oline(Pouncey) or even a DE if BPA.

A Rookie stud OT like Okung or Trent Williams or 2nd year Oher(who had some problems at LT last year) could make the same mistake against Peppers as the veteran Backus did. May have been worse with a rookie OT since that would have been the rookies first game. But you have to start somewhere and taking Tyron Smith or another OT would probably be the best pick for the long term success of the Lions. 2011 probably not as I think Backus would still be the LT and Gosder/rookie OT would battle for the RT position with probably the rookie stud tackle winning the job. Then in 2012, Smith or whoever would move over to LT. I'd rather have the veteran protecting Staffords blind side than a rookie right given how fragile he is.

And I don't fault Mayhew one bit for passing on Oher and Okung/Trent Williams. Pettigrew had 700 yards last year and is very valuable and Suh is a beast. This is the correct year to take a tackle based on value unless Prince falls.
Exactly. That's the thing that bugs me about the "we don't NEED that" philosophy (or just drafting for need in general) - you don't know what your needs will be from year to year. Hell, something that is a perceived "weak" position on your team can turn into a strength by year's end. Just as quickly, a position that you think is set can be decimated in the span of a week.

Just look at the Packers this year. Going into the season, CB was deemed to be the biggest weakness on their roster. By season's end, it was the strongest position on their team. Conversely, the Minnesota defensive line was the supposed strength of that team and carried the defensive load. By season's end, they looked old and tired and were largely ineffective all year.

If the value is there, especially for a premium big man, you take it.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I didn't see a comment at all from Titletown, and now seeing who you got, I can understand why.
No thanks to Akeem Ayers, although with USC Matthews, Cal Desmond Bishop, and Oregon State Nick Barnett, that's an All-Pac 10 set of LBers right there.

Speaking of Ayers, where is Clint Sintum these days?

I do like seeing Locker to Seattle...... really hope that pick happens

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I'm not buying the Phil Taylor in Round 1 hype.

I think you could make the argument that he's a first round talent, but once teams finish up their investigations the off-the-field issues will eventually push him in the second round.
Not all teams come to the same conclusions about those off-field investigations.
All it takes is one team to want him bad enough.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a big fan of Pouncey over Jordan. If Jordan is there, I really don't see how he isn't the pick even if he doesn't fit our traditional profile. As much as I like Wilkerson, if we have a chance to go Jordan/Reed or Jordan/any other impact pass rusher I'll be happy. We've gotten by with plugging offensive linemen in for a while now, don't see any reason why that has to change. We can even use the second round picks to address the interior a bit with a guy like Boling or Carpenter who fit our profile really well.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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If we could get a 2nd and 3rd id do it 10 times out of 10. I like the depth of this draft for our needs.

I like Boling too. He could be a reach there and won't be a pro bowler but he's a good all around player and can be a 10 year starter.
I think Clint Boling is higher on NFL team boards then he is on the internet boards.

He is a solid player that will never do anything but start games and work hard for the team. He reminds me of a less physical Logan Mankins.

Boling is what the Bears need someone who you can start and forget about like Kreutz for the 1st 10 years he was a Bear.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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They did the same thing with Tebow last year and they didn't take him. Remember that?

Also, you are right about Nix being honest, BUT, as far as being set at OLB, Nix has brought in quite a few OLB prospects that lead you to believe the Bills are taking an OLB high in this draft despite what he said.

So far he's brought in Kerrigan, Bowers, Houston, and Miller.

So the Bills are in fact looking at pass-rushing OLBs, heck Nix said the biggest need for the Bills front 7 is a pass rusher. And I don't believe that bringing in all of those OLBs is a smokescreen since that would just be a waste of visits...
No team last year was taking Tebow in the top ten, much less Buffalo, and outside of Jim Kelly, who is an independant voice, no one in the organization was gushing over Tebow near like they are with Newton. They may have taken him in the second or third, but we will never know.
Every organization is doing there due diligence, and bringing in the top prospects, teams have drafted players they did not bring in for personal visits, that means very little.
Show me where Nix said the biggest need for the Bills front 7 is a pass rusher.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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umm harris is okay. yes we could use a corner but we're not nearly as most think. Being a canes fan, I like harris a lot but he doesn't really offer anything that we don't have at the corner position. Word is they're looking for bigger CB's anyway. The ravens organization has expressed a lot of interest in improving the pass rush and has shown interest in the likes of Justin Houston, Ryan Kerrigan and Brooks Reed. OT has been mentioned but I personally don't see the value there. If Jimmy Smith was there they'd have to entertain that. But if I had to bet, I say they go with the highest rated front seven player on their board.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. Even though I'm not a Miami fan I still like Harris, but how much does he improve our weakness (big corner that can match up in man coverage) in the secondary? Is Harris a guy that you're hearing the Ravens are high on or are you just giving the Ravens a corner because of the common perception of the secondary?

I think Houston would be a much better pick, the pass-rush was as bad as the secondary last season (and has been pretty under-whelming for the last few seasons). He's also a good fit for us, like you mentioned.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Bowers has the talent to be a double-digit sack artist at the next level and that is exactly what the doctor ordered for Cleveland.
That's a nice way to word it since a lot is riding on how he checks out medically.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Completely agree with this. The Bills are taking Newton and are all but screaming it from the mountaintops. They did the same thing last year with Spiller, but nobody was listening.
I agree make it happen Scott!

And then we will gladly take Green/Fairley
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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I agree make it happen Scott!

And then we will gladly take Green/Fairley
Considering the Bengals made clear they have no intentions of bringing either Ocho or TO back, Green seems like a beyond obvious pick.

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Old 03-21-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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ughhhh I am so sick of these damn OT picks for KC.it's NOT A NEED!!!our OL was much improved last year so taking an OT is ppointless.only a C would make sense
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I'll have no problem if we select "Son of Iron-head", but I do hope NO takes Paea with our first round pick.
Finally coming onto the Paea bandwagon? It's ok, I'll scoot over and let you in.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I can almost guarantee that the Jets won't take Paea with the 30th overall pick. He's strong but he's not a 3-4 NT prospect nor is he really a 3-4 DL prospect in general...If anything he's a better version of Trevor Laws and is best suited as a 4-3 UT.

I really really hope that Wilkerson or Heyward get to 30 on draft...if not then it's probably Ballard time.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Considering the Bengals made clear they have no intentions of bringing either Ocho or TO back, Green seems like a beyond obvious pick.
Unless Dareus or Gabbert falls to us I have to agree.
This is a pretty bad year to need a QB.
I would really prefer building the OL to fit what Jay wants to do on offense.
Then I am fine taking a mid-rounder and seeing how it goes this season with him and a FA Vet. If the coaches like what that kid brings good if not, Andrew Luck sweepstakes here we come.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Considering the Bengals made clear they have no intentions of bringing either Ocho or TO back, Green seems like a beyond obvious pick.
i get it but they also understand its unlikely they will be bringing back their qb as well. and when it comes to a top 5 pick for a team without a qb or a wr, 9 times out of 10 that teams going to take the qb. with that said, its perfectly reasonable to think gabbert and newton could be gone at 1 and 3.
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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i get it but they also understand its unlikely they will be bringing back their qb as well. and when it comes to a top 5 pick for a team without a qb or a wr, 9 times out of 10 that teams going to take the qb. with that said, its perfectly reasonable to think gabbert and newton could be gone at 1 and 3.
We still wouldn't take Newton.
Everything I have heard says Newton isn't the best fit for the WCO Jay Gruden wants to start implementing in Cincy.
Most people finally got over Mallett to Cincy when Gruden was hired.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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We still wouldn't take Newton.
Everything I have heard says Newton isn't the best fit for the WCO Jay Gruden wants to start implementing in Cincy.
Most people finally got over Mallett to Cincy when Gruden was hired.
The Bengals won't draft a QB because of system....they won't draft one because Mike Brown still thinks Carson Palmer will be there for the next five years.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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The Bengals won't draft a QB because of system....they won't draft one because Mike Brown still thinks Carson Palmer will be there for the next five years.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/3/21...ont-be-back-in

Marvin says he knows Palmer wont be back. Doesn't mean he will be traded, but it means we will need a QB.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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No thanks to Akeem Ayers, although with USC Matthews, Cal Desmond Bishop, and Oregon State Nick Barnett, that's an All-Pac 10 set of LBers right there.
You also end up with an all Pac-10 LB corps by picking Arizona's Brooks Reed. Also keep in mind that it's much more likely that Brandon Chillar is with the team next year than Nick Barnett, but Chillar went to UCLA so it's all good.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Without the option of a trade down, I'm perfectly fine with that Bears pick.

I agree that our main problem is depth, however. A 2nd and a 3rd would be ideal.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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Default Jordan is a slip fit for the Bolts

But I don't think he will be there, the Pats would not pass on this guy. I would take Carimi or Castonzo and be happy with the "safe" pick.
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Old 03-21-2011, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by T-RICH49 View Post
ughhhh I am so sick of these damn OT picks for KC.it's NOT A NEED!!!our OL was much improved last year so taking an OT is ppointless.only a C would make sense
Scott is apparently trying to break the record for consecutive years mocking an OT to a team and being wrong.

We told him last year and he didn't listen. We're telling him this year and he's still not listening.

We had the number 1 rushing offense in the NFL last year and our passing offense was MUCH better. If we get a WR opposite Bowe, the OL will look great because Cassel won't have to hold on to the ball forever waiting for someone to get open.
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