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Old 05-01-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
prock
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
It's baffling that teams can sit down and watch Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett on film and take the two formers over the latter. Ponder played like crap his entire career. He's gotten by completely on his reputation as a top recruit. His supporting cast at Florida State was probably better than what the other QBs in this draft were working with, and he failed consistently.

Maybe he's Josh Freeman...even if he is, Mallett is still better. Ponder seemed like one of those guys you draft in the 3rd or 4th round who might turn into something more than a good backup. JD Booty (good call), Erik Ainge, Kevin O'Connell, etc.

I had him #7
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton
10. Devlin
If you are relying only on film, then you shouldn't have Locker at #1. I love Locker, but the main criteria you are using against Ponder doesn't fit with you having Locker #1. My rankings were like this:

1. Newton
2. Mallet
3. Locker
4. Ponder
5. Gabbert
6. Kaepernick
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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I like the pick and i was sort of expecting maybe he'd end up in Seattle. To me Ponder is a pretty safe pick. I think he's underrated athletically as evidenced by the best 20 yard shuttle of all the QBs at the combine and he has a great head on his shoulders. For me i would have had him 3rd behind Locker and Gabbert.

If i had a criticism of what they did there in Minnesota it seemed like they just werent aggresive enough in going after a QB in the draft (unless it was Ponder all along). They could have jumped to #7 as the draft unfolded and assured themselves of the top two on my board but i thought they chose to let the draft come to them, we'll see how it turns out.
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Old 05-01-2011, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nepg View Post
ROFL at the Heisman comment.

*20 minutes later - finally recovered from laughing enough to type again*

Ponder looked really bad at times throughout his career. There's no getting around it. He was a solid college QB, but nothing special. Average everything and injury prone. He's the 7th-best QB in this draft and for good reason.

And he was the #14 QB recruit in a class that included Bradford, Juice Williams, Stafford, Mustain, Freeman, Devlin, McElroy, Riley, and Potts. Considering that company, I'd say he's a fairly highly regarded recruit.
Like I said, you have no clue about him.
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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If i had a criticism of what they did there in Minnesota it seemed like they just werent aggresive enough in going after a QB in the draft (unless it was Ponder all along).
They really didn't have the ammo to move up out of 12. This team as lots of holes to fill, and already with no 3rd rd pick. And giving up next years draft pick or picks just to move up a couple spots doesn't seem worth it.

Was Ponder a reach at 12? Yeah more then likely. Was Gabbert and Locker a reach at 12? Yep still a reach. How many teams badly in need of a QB that picked ahead of 12 passed on Gabbert and Locker?

Also Spielman and Frazier stated that they did try to trade out of this pick. And also at the same time hearing from sources now that Washington and Miami were looking hard at Ponder and there is no way he was making it out of the 1st round.

Wait and see, its all we can do.
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Old 05-01-2011, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Out of all the QB's drafted in the 1st Round Ponder was put in the best position. Hand ball off to AP, Throw ball to Harvin, Rice, Shaincoe. It does not get any better for him. I am very pleased to see him go to Minny, because that is where I was projecting him during the season. Once injuries started to come about I thought he would fall off the radar, boy was I wrong. The Senior Bowl did wonders for him.
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Thief +15 swagger
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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Like I said... they have a board arranged for one team. Their own. Doesn't make it wrong or panic at all if they took they guy they rated the highest according to their needs. Why is it labeled "panic" instead of "smart"? Why do they have to risk their guy getting taken? Say Ponder goes... then are they smart for missing on him because the value wasn't right according to some imaginary board of the masses? That's ridiculous! They got their guy. A guy who had a lot more to offer compared to what was left. That's not panic. That's safe and smart.
Why is Troy Williams labeled panic instead of smart? Why is Ryan Cook a reach? Why is Tarvaris Jackson? The Vikings are good evaluators of talent and when they draft BPA, they have great success. Adrian Peterson, Chad Greenway, Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, E.J. Henderson, Kevin Williams, Bryant McKinnie, Ray Edwards... those are value picks of talented players that, more or less, fell into their laps because other teams reached for questionable players.

When they reach to fulfill a need, they can convince themselves that a player like Troy Williamson will be the next Randy Moss. He had a decent junior season, but he was a track guy playing football. He was a speed guy that was little more than a third or fourth round developmental project. And it blew up in their face. They've seen what a great QB can do (Favre) and have a desperate need to replace it. It has the appearance of a reach since everyone and their mother didn't think he was a first round QB. If Minnesota has ranked him in their Top 10, then good for them. They got their guy. But that better be their guy. You don't want to miss on first round QBs, especially with QBs that are widely viewed as second, third or fourth caliber QB prospects.
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Old 05-01-2011, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Why is Troy Williams labeled panic instead of smart? Why is Ryan Cook a reach? Why is Tarvaris Jackson? The Vikings are good evaluators of talent and when they draft BPA, they have great success. Adrian Peterson, Chad Greenway, Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, E.J. Henderson, Kevin Williams, Bryant McKinnie, Ray Edwards... those are value picks of talented players that, more or less, fell into their laps because other teams reached for questionable players.

When they reach to fulfill a need, they can convince themselves that a player like Troy Williamson will be the next Randy Moss. He had a decent junior season, but he was a track guy playing football. He was a speed guy that was little more than a third or fourth round developmental project. And it blew up in their face. They've seen what a great QB can do (Favre) and have a desperate need to replace it. It has the appearance of a reach since everyone and their mother didn't think he was a first round QB. If Minnesota has ranked him in their Top 10, then good for them. They got their guy. But that better be their guy. You don't want to miss on first round QBs, especially with QBs that are widely viewed as second, third or fourth caliber QB prospects.
Williamson was considered a 1st rounder. Certainly wasn't a panic pick. Are you making up the idea that they thought he was the next Randy Moss? Or is there something that substantiates your claim? Not every bad pick was a panic pick, not every good pick was a "BPA according to their board" pick. Way too much generalization in your approach to build up your point.

They obviously went for need over BPA, but it's not a bad idea in Minnesota's case when you consider all the other factors.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
Why is Troy Williams labeled panic instead of smart? Why is Ryan Cook a reach? Why is Tarvaris Jackson? The Vikings are good evaluators of talent and when they draft BPA, they have great success. Adrian Peterson, Chad Greenway, Percy Harvin, Sidney Rice, E.J. Henderson, Kevin Williams, Bryant McKinnie, Ray Edwards... those are value picks of talented players that, more or less, fell into their laps because other teams reached for questionable players.

When they reach to fulfill a need, they can convince themselves that a player like Troy Williamson will be the next Randy Moss. He had a decent junior season, but he was a track guy playing football. He was a speed guy that was little more than a third or fourth round developmental project. And it blew up in their face. They've seen what a great QB can do (Favre) and have a desperate need to replace it. It has the appearance of a reach since everyone and their mother didn't think he was a first round QB. If Minnesota has ranked him in their Top 10, then good for them. They got their guy. But that better be their guy. You don't want to miss on first round QBs, especially with QBs that are widely viewed as second, third or fourth caliber QB prospects.
If you think Kevin Williams was a value, BPA player who "fell" into the Vikings laps, you're an absolute moron and your opinion should be completely disregarded. You clearly:

A. Are making up false claims to prove a point and
B. Have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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we all saw the crowd shots of the Vikings fans on draft night

i think they will be pleasantly surprised with this player

he's pro ready, smart, from a great program, mature and fits the WCO like a glove.

other than durability and perhaps arm strength (overrated in a WCO) what's not to like?

people said it was a reach well the Vikings are not a total rebuild. they are a QB away from being a contender. Ponder could be that QB. I'd bet he starts week 1.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I like all the offensive skill players around him in Minnesota. Getting Rudolph was smart as well. They do need o-line help, Ponder is a good athlete and can move well so that should help him some. He has plenty of arm to make all the throws required of him.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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It's baffling that teams can sit down and watch Gabbert, Ponder, and Mallett on film and take the two formers over the latter. Ponder played like crap his entire career. He's gotten by completely on his reputation as a top recruit. His supporting cast at Florida State was probably better than what the other QBs in this draft were working with, and he failed consistently.

Maybe he's Josh Freeman...even if he is, Mallett is still better. Ponder seemed like one of those guys you draft in the 3rd or 4th round who might turn into something more than a good backup. JD Booty (good call), Erik Ainge, Kevin O'Connell, etc.

I had him #7
1. Locker
2. Mallett
3. Newton
4. Gabbert
5. Kaepernick
6. Stanzi
7. Ponder
8. Yates
9. Dalton
10. Devlin
This completely shows you don't know what your talking about.

Ponder was never a top recruit, he was a 3 star guy on Rivals and not expected to be a big time starter.

He was hit and miss his sophomore year, lights out his Junior year and inconsistent his senior year. But he LIT UP some very good defenses, like UNC's in 2009 and UF's this past year.

His group of WR's are very average, its the biggest weakness on FSU's team. His Junior year he had some experienced guys (who were in and out with injuries) who actually ran correct routes and he was outstanding. This past season we had young and inconsistent WR's and its why Ponder struggled at times.

While I agree if you watch Mallet's film he is more impressive, the times he struggles are the times that happen alot more in the NFL. When there's a pass rush.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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I'll agree that Mallet is probably the better pure quarterback out of all of those guys but he obviously had some serious character concerns. Also, Ponder wasn't a top recruit, he was a 3 star player and Florida State only gave him a scholarship at the last minute when Tebow chose to go to Florida instead.
And where do people make this stuff up, Tebow was committed to UF for a while and FSU was never really in the picture. That is not why Ponder was offered.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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And where do people make this stuff up, Tebow was committed to UF for a while and FSU was never really in the picture. That is not why Ponder was offered.
Only other school Tebow considered was Bama if I recall correctly.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it is ridiculous to say, good situation for Ponder, not the best, but very good. Would I be surprised if he ends up a major injury risk/implodes? No, but he has the tools to be successful.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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And where do people make this stuff up, Tebow was committed to UF for a while and FSU was never really in the picture. That is not why Ponder was offered.
I'm not making it up, I read it in an article like 2 days ago. Way to be a dick though.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm not making it up, I read it in an article like 2 days ago. Way to be a dick though.
I read the same(or at least a similar) article. I was looking to see if I could find it, but had no luck.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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If you think Kevin Williams was a value, BPA player who "fell" into the Vikings laps, you're an absolute moron and your opinion should be completely disregarded. You clearly:

A. Are making up false claims to prove a point and
B. Have no idea what you're talking about.
I guess you missed the part regarding "more or less" you stupid ******* ******. Maybe you should read and quit being thick in front of me. 6'5'' 305 pound DTs with DE athleticism and 4.8 speed, coming off a monster season are third rounders. You right. That was an awful pick. In case you forgot, he was widely regarded as a Top 10 pick, but you're right. I have no idea what I'm talking about. Terrible value. Everyone thought it was a reach. Get the **** out of here.


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Williamson was considered a 1st rounder. Certainly wasn't a panic pick. Are you making up the idea that they thought he was the next Randy Moss? Or is there something that substantiates your claim?
Yes. I made it up. They drafted Troy Williamson to be a bust. Not because they just lost Randy Moss and wanted a fast, vertical stretch WR. I don't have a link, but I watched the draft and know that to be the reason why they drafted him.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Now that some of the dust has settled, I'm convinced that Christian Ponder will have the brightest career out of the QBs selected in this year's draft. People can say the Vikings reached, but their board was put together for their own team. Not for the other 31.

Ponder will succeed because:

1) Intelligence. Graduated in 2.5 years with a 3.7 GPA and already has a Master's degree. Goes to show the kind of committment and work ethic he has off the field. It's also a good sign to show that a high ceiling on his learning capacity, which is crucial for the QB position.

2) Strong arm. Ponder's arm is plenty strong to make all the NFL throws. If you don't know it, watch him.

3) Elusive on his feet. He's not a runner like Newton, Tebow, Vick... but he's comfortable making plays on his feet and escaping pressure. In a lot of ways he reminds me of how Romo used to be. Romo runs a lot less now days, but he used to be a magician back there. So while he uses his feet well, he doesn't take off and scramble on his first instinct. Big plus.

3) Ponder comes from a pro style system. His footwork out from underneath center is smooth and automatic. He doesn't have to think about his footwork. It's just natural, unlike his peers coming from spread option systems who don't have the repetitiion advantage.

4) No accuracy question marks. While Locker and Newton have been highly criticized of this, nobody says that about Ponder.

5) He's a gunslinger. He's got that Brett Favre, never die attitude. He looks to extend plays and make things happen out of nothing. While that can be good many times, it has lead to some of his INTs... but the Vikings will love him for it.

6) Alpha male. This is important to me. Ponder sparkles those good looks that all those confident lead dogs have. People like him and gravitate him. People want to follow him. He's an easy guy to place confidence in. When he leads, you want to listen. That's the type he is. Not just because of his looks, but the complete package. Looks, smarts, athletic... fricken... our society loves those kinds of people. That's just the way it is.

7) Strong supporting cast. Now here is the real kicker that puts everything over the top. Ponder is going to a place where he can succeed right away. Handing the ball off to Adrian Peterson and targets like Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Berrian and Camarillo... not to mention a solid TE in Shianco... Ponder is landing in the best situation of all the other QBs in this draft.

So before you start knocking the pick (all you Locker lovers who praised Tennessee), realize you might be knocking the best QB to come out of this draft!!! They didn't reach. They got a damn STEAL!
Right, because there are no better QB steals than the ones that drive off Pro Bowl Receivers!! Maybe he is a little too alpha and Harvin was intimidated by his full head of hair.

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/n...arvin-want-out

Two sources tell Yahoo Sports that the "straw that broke the Vikings' back" with Percy Harvin was Harvin "bemoaning" the fact that Christian Ponder is a poor starting quarterback.
Harvin believed Ponder was "not good enough."
Harvin's complaints about GM Rick Spielman's handpicked franchise quarterback expedited his way out of town, despite Ponder's consistent ability to get him the football. Before his 2012 year-ending injury, Harvin was on pace for 111 receptions, and his game reached new heights the season before after Ponder replaced Donovan McNabb. Seattle must not be worried about Harvin throwing Russell Wilson under the bus.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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Since we're in retro mode here.....I was surprised when I looked back over the Combine tests for quarterbacks over the past five years, how much they were dominated by the 2011 class. Even without Terrelle Pryor. Jake Locker is the only QB who is still top 10 in all 5 events over that period. Gabbert, Newton, Griffin III, are top 10 in 3 of the 5 still. Luck in two, and I think Ponder, Kaepernick, and Wilson, in one each. If you include Wonderlic as the sixth test, Ponder, Gabbert, and Luck, would add one more top 10 mark each. If Pryor was included in that class, it would have dominated most events going as far back as you want to go. Luck, Wilson, Griffin, and E J Manuel were also eligible to come out in 2011.

The class also set all time records for rookie and sophomore starts in the NFL at the position. Remember how everyone was saying it was a terrible draft class? LOL at them.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Percy Harvin disagrees.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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Surprisingly enough, Ponder is a bit older than Harvin. But quarterbacks take longer to mature, and I guess Percy doesn't want to be washed up by the time that happens. Not that Wilson is any better, or any older.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Surprisingly enough, Ponder is a bit older than Harvin. But quarterbacks take longer to mature, and I guess Percy doesn't want to be washed up by the time that happens. Not that Wilson is any better, or any older.
I would rather have Wilson than Ponder on my team, I don't know about you.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:23 PM    (permalink
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Surprisingly enough, Ponder is a bit older than Harvin. But quarterbacks take longer to mature, and I guess Percy doesn't want to be washed up by the time that happens. Not that Wilson is any better, or any older.

Wilson is better than Ponder.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is significantly better than Ponder.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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We'll see if Wilson can keep it up. Last year everyone expected Cam Newton to dominate and the Panthers to be a Super Bowl contender.
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