Official 2012 Draft Discussion Thread

[bigbuc]

I wouldn't be upset if Keuchly is te pick...

[Caddy]

I'm getting excited guys. DRAFT IS SOON!

[impactplayerx47]

I wouldn't be upset if we took Keuchly at #5 but only if Trent Richardson, and Morris Claiborne are off the board.

If Cleveland takes Richardson at 4, and Minn passes on Mo, it's an easy choice. If Minn take Mo, and Cleveland takes Blackmon or Kalil then I would def go with Richardson at 4. I think Richardson can change the face of our franchise and really take a lot of pressurue off of Josh which can greatly benefit his development (adding in Vj won't hurt any either).

I don't see Poe being the option in any scenario. I think he's a talented guy who flahses some upside, but I just don't think he's a true upgrade at the position. Hopefully Price is healthy, big Frank Okam, Roy Miller, and even Michael Bennet should see some time next to McCoy, and with the young fellas comin' off the ends the D-line should be okay in round 1.

Nehoo If both Richardson and Clai are gone, I would love to see a trade down and us to take Keuchly in the 10-20 range. If no trade partner presents itself, I think Keuchly can make a big difference and allow us to shift Foster back to his natural position. Think he is a heady guy who can lead the defensive and take care of "the small things" we have struggled to do the last few years. Another prospect I wouldn't be against taking with a trade down (10-20 range again) is Mark Barron. I think S is a major position of need, even if Ronde plays FS this season, I'm not sure that i wanna bank on Cody Grimm coming back and fortifying the SS position. Bring in Barron to compete for the job and strengthen a former weak spot.

My big fear with trading back and taking Keuchly is the fear that a good corner won't be around in the 2nd. If Gilmore (highly unlikely) were somehow around in 2, I'd be all over drafting Luke in 1, but in the dream scenario we'd trade back in 1, take Luke, and then trade back into 1 to draft either Dre Kirkpatrick, or Stephon Gilmore.

WE SHALL see guys...but I'm also gettin pretty excited!

[bucfan12]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing:

Trading the pick and moving down to the 10-15 range, pick up a 2nd and 4th round pick, and take DT Donatari Poe from Memphis. That would defiinately be a nice pick up for the run game, then add Mychal Kendricks in the 2nd round and go from there.

[bigbuc]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing:

Trading the pick and moving down to the 10-15 range, pick up a 2nd and 4th round pick, and take DT Donatari Poe from Memphis. That would defiinately be a nice pick up for the run game, then add Mychal Kendricks in the 2nd round and go from there.

I don't want anything to do with Poe. If the worst case happens Minny takes Mo Browns take Richardson and we move down to 10...


Kuechly
Barron
Hightower
Gilmore

In that order

[Caddy]

I'll probably set up an IRC chat room on draft day/days for anyone who is interested. I'll post more on Thursday.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

We're probably going to beat the bush on this Keuchly discussion, but Keuchly set tackle records. My concern with him: He makes to many tackles down-field and does struggle to get off blocks. Our DT situation hasn't been improved and that has hurt our LBs over the past few years. I wouldn't be surprised if a trade-down occurs and Poe, DT from Memphins, is the choice., a BIG Bodies NT to plug in next to McCoy.

I like Kendricks. I think he's a better LB, more physcial and very stout in the run defense. He's also very solid in pass coverage and very well rounded enough to play the MIKE and WILL. He's similar to Jon Beason.

Keuchly? I don't think he's this freakish athlete like Urlacher. When I watch him, he just doesn't say, WOW. I wish he was a Buc. I also just think he'll be solid and his ceiling has been hit. To take him at 5 , let alone, top 10, is just ridiculous. He's no where near the level of a Patrick Willis. That we can keep dreaming.

Kendricks > Keuchly.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. Mayock and everybody else is wrong about him. He couldn't possibly get any better. How many 20 year old football players actually get better over time? <sarcasm>

How many LBs don't struggle to get off of blocks? Ray Lewis isn't a block shedding dynamo, Urlacher has been covered up his entire careeer, Willis isn't great at it by any means. No decent rangy MLB is good at getting off blocks of another 320 lb man. There are guys, in the 3-4, that excel at standing up blockers, they are also not the guys that usually make the tackle. When we tinkered with the 3-4 in college, my old coach called that player the "Buck" and his job was to go wherever the FB went and meet either him or the OG in the hole and stand his ground while the "Mike" made the play. The Bucs have not had a "Buck" LB since the days of John Brantley, Eugene Marve, and Ervin Randle.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing:

Trading the pick and moving down to the 10-15 range, pick up a 2nd and 4th round pick, and take DT Donatari Poe from Memphis. That would defiinately be a nice pick up for the run game, then add Mychal Kendricks in the 2nd round and go from there.

Hmmm, now I don't get you at all. You love Richardson and say, "Don't look at his measurables. look at his production and game tape in a top conference." Then you like Poe who you can't see much production against a weak conference and his game tape isn't all that impressive either but his combine performance was awesome.

So which is it? Tape or measurables? One has plenty of one and not impressive in the other, and the other guy is the opposite.

At least you didn't say, Michael Brockers... who has neither and is my early choice to be this season's Kentwan Balmer.

[bucfan12]

Brasho,

It seems like you just rip apart anyone who doesn't share your opinions.

What I say about Keuchly: Solid Prospect, but taking him early will just bring flash-backs of AJ Hawk going that early. I'm pretty sure people though the world of him.

I see really not much of a difference between Keuchly and Laurenitis. I see a solid player, tackler, but doesn't jump out on the film nor in games. He's not a game changer nor elite prospect.

Kendricks is better, but I'm in no way saying Kendricks is worthy of a top 15 pick either. He's more explosive, very good at shedding blocks, sound tackler, fast, and good in coverage. To me, I see him better than Keuchly. To take Keuchly in the top 10, he has to be a Willis mold type LB, and he's not even in the conversation. I think he's going to be over-drafted.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by brasho

Hmmm, now I don't get you at all. You love Richardson and say, "Don't look at his measurables. look at his production and game tape in a top conference." Then you like Poe who you can't see much production against a weak conference and his game tape isn't all that impressive either but his combine performance was awesome.

So which is it? Tape or measurables? One has plenty of one and not impressive in the other, and the other guy is the opposite.

At least you didn't say, Michael Brockers... who has neither and is my early choice to be this season's Kentwan Balmer.

Reason I said Poe: Look at our horrendous Run-Defense. He never had the sack stats, but he did the dirty work to eat up blocks in the run game. I'm saying it's an idea.

And honestly: I used Richardson in the conference he played as just another factor. Richardson is a beast and honestly, you might be the only 1 I've seen or talked to who said there's not much difference between him and Doug Martin or the rest of the class.

The production and impact will speak for itself.

[bigbuc]

Would you guys like to see us draft Vontaze Burfict in the 6/7 round? Maybe could become a 2 down run stuffer.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Would you guys like to see us draft Vontaze Burfict in the 6/7 round? Maybe could become a 2 down run stuffer.

6/7 rounders rarely work out as it is, so using one on Taze (assuming we don't grab a LB earlier) wouldn't be the worst idea.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

Would you guys like to see us draft Vontaze Burfict in the 6/7 round? Maybe could become a 2 down run stuffer.

Not at all. Schiano already showed he prefers players with a good character and that will gel with our team chemistry.

Burfict wasn't even invited to any team's facilities for a workout this off-season. I don't think he's going to get drafted, and quite frankly, he wasn't even that good. He missed to many gaps, assignments, was too inconsistant. I don't even see him panning out in the NFL.

[kBuc5]

The closer we get to the draft the more I think we will target a CB, LB and S
in the first three rounds. As much as everyone wants a RB I don't think we take one early, Dominick hasn't valued the RB position in past drafts. Schiano is a defensive minded coach. We have Blount on the roster and could easily pick up a RB after the draft to go along with a 5th or later round RB.

[kBuc5]

1st round targets Claiborne, Barron, Kuelchy
2nd round targets Kendricks, H. Smith
3rd round targets Boykin, Minnefield, B. Taylor, B. Wagner, T. Carder

I can see these guys being the targets in that order, you can mash it up but think we take a ILB, CB and SS with our first three picks barring Richardson being available at 5.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Not at all. Schiano already showed he prefers players with a good character and that will gel with our team chemistry.

Burfict wasn't even invited to any team's facilities for a workout this off-season. I don't think he's going to get drafted, and quite frankly, he wasn't even that good. He missed to many gaps, assignments, was too inconsistant. I don't even see him panning out in the NFL.

You and I can definitely agree on this. Burfict doesn't get it and the risk far outweighs the reward. Frankly, he's just not THAT good as a player to bring on the headache.

I'm even a little leery on taking him as an UDFA.

Could he work out in the NFL? Maybe, but only if he dedicated himself to improving physically and mentally as a player...and also as a person. He may need to kick around a few years in the CFL to prove himself because I don't see it happening here. The two places I could see him going and finally getting it figured out are Baltimore and Pittsburgh. A dummy like Burfict can learn a lot about life and football in those places.

[kBuc5]

Add a failed drug test for Burfict.

[brasho]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Brasho,

It seems like you just rip apart anyone who doesn't share your opinions.

What I say about Keuchly: Solid Prospect, but taking him early will just bring flash-backs of AJ Hawk going that early. I'm pretty sure people though the world of him.

I see really not much of a difference between Keuchly and Laurenitis. I see a solid player, tackler, but doesn't jump out on the film nor in games. He's not a game changer nor elite prospect.

Kendricks is better, but I'm in no way saying Kendricks is worthy of a top 15 pick either. He's more explosive, very good at shedding blocks, sound tackler, fast, and good in coverage. To me, I see him better than Keuchly. To take Keuchly in the top 10, he has to be a Willis mold type LB, and he's not even in the conversation. I think he's going to be over-drafted.

I rip apart arguments, not people. I'm not sure where you see the similiarities to Laurenaitis. Different athletes, different production, completely different talent around them, different ratings by all. I think Street and Smith or Athlon made the Laurenaitis-Kuechly comparison first and anybody objective won't see it. Laurenaitis is stiff, limited athletically and more of a traditional thumper; He's Curtis Lofton playing for non-contenders. Kuechly is nothing like that.

AJ Hawk wasn't anywhere near the tackler and coverage guy as Kuechly.

How are you saying Kendricks is better when before you said Kuechly is worth a top 20 pick and that Kendricks isn't? your logic confuses me, much like your logic of Richardson and how it relates to Poe.

Regardless, my attacks are never meant to be taken personally. We don't have to agree, you are one of my Buc-brothers (the little brother that needs to be shown the way) and in the end, whomever we draft, hopefully we will both root for them to succeed.

Anyway, McShay,. whom I normally hate, but like more than Kiper, has the Bucs now taking Kuechly at #5. From what I understand, the Bills need a LT desperately so there is a chance we could slip down to #10 with the Bills, they grab Kalil, we get Kuechly, a 2nd, a 3rd or 4th, and we can do some serious roster retooling.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by brasho

I rip apart arguments, not people. I'm not sure where you see the similiarities to Laurenaitis. Different athletes, different production, completely different talent around them, different ratings by all. I think Street and Smith or Athlon made the Laurenaitis-Kuechly comparison first and anybody objective won't see it. Laurenaitis is stiff, limited athletically and more of a traditional thumper; He's Curtis Lofton playing for non-contenders. Kuechly is nothing like that.

AJ Hawk wasn't anywhere near the tackler and coverage guy as Kuechly.

How are you saying Kendricks is better when before you said Kuechly is worth a top 20 pick and that Kendricks isn't? your logic confuses me, much like your logic of Richardson and how it relates to Poe.

Regardless, my attacks are never meant to be taken personally. We don't have to agree, you are one of my Buc-brothers (the little brother that needs to be shown the way) and in the end, whomever we draft, hopefully we will both root for them to succeed.

Anyway, McShay,. whom I normally hate, but like more than Kiper, has the Bucs now taking Kuechly at #5. From what I understand, the Bills need a LT desperately so there is a chance we could slip down to #10 with the Bills, they grab Kalil, we get Kuechly, a 2nd, a 3rd or 4th, and we can do some serious roster retooling.

I will root for Keuchly to succeed , but he's not my first choice. I think he can be a solid LB, but I don't see him worthy of a top 10 selection and believe 20 overall is the earliest I'd touch him.

Kendricks has flown under the radar and is vastly underrated to the point, we can nab him at the end of round 1 or early round 2. Also, the comparisons I've seen from Luke Keuchly have been a mix, but more of James Laurenitis and some Mayo, LB from New England, who isn't the stud MLB many thought would be either.


I'm just not impressed with Keuchly enough to take him very high.

[bigbuc]

If Richardson and Mo are gone I would love to see us draft

1. Luke Kuechly
2. Lavonte David
3. Lamichael James/ Robert Turbin / Isaiah Pead

You guys can call me crazy, but like two years ago with Dt and last with DE. LB is by far our biggest need and Dom will go back to back with picks. Think taking these guys would set us up for the next 7 plus years. Also both are 3 down players. And in the 3rd we pick up a backup back.

[bucfan12]

According to Charlie Casserly on Twitter, we have contacted the Vikings about the #3 pick. That probably means we are interested in Trent Richardson to jump Cleveland.

The only question remains: How much does Mark Dominik and Schiano love Richardson?

We know, after his workout, which the Bucs attended, that Schiano immediately came out and said he wanted a "Cowbell type RB". Richardson fits that description. We want to run first offense and physcial offense.

I'm not saying it will happen, but hte fact there is contact, only brings the fact it's believed the Bucs are very high on him.

I'll be extatic if I see the Bucs move to #3 on the TV Screen because I think he's worth it.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bigbuc

If Richardson and Mo are gone I would love to see us draft

1. Luke Kuechly
2. Lavonte David
3. Lamichael James/ Robert Turbin / Isaiah Pead

You guys can call me crazy, but like two years ago with Dt and last with DE. LB is by far our biggest need and Dom will go back to back with picks. Think taking these guys would set us up for the next 7 plus years. Also both are 3 down players. And in the 3rd we pick up a backup back.

Thing IS; I don't think we'd double up on LBs. Foster is going to fill a starting spot. With the increase in passing offense, only the WILL and MIKE stay on the field most of the time. The SAM isn't as important as it used to be, and I think Watson/Black can fill that role this year.

I really hate repeating myself some times, but if you try to address needs in the draft, especially at weak positions, then it's going to burn you. We can't fill all of our needs in the draft, especially if we reach for guys.

I love Lavonte David, but what if we see Foster as a WLB? Then we'll target a MLB? I don't know what the Bucs board looks like, but I have an idea of the type of players we may target due to Schiano's defensive philosophy.

And again, I think I've seen more scouts and analysts say about Keuchly: Good football player, but not dynamic. More of the Sean Lee/Laurenitis/Paul Posluszny mold. Hm.. All 3 were 2nd round picks. Guy doesn't belong in the top 10.

[bucfan12]

Dom has to be going over several scenarios. We could trade up for Richardson? I'm still thinking the Vikes take Khalil. You don't leave your Franchise guy un-protected back there in the pocket. Heck, they don't have a LT, LG, nor RG on there roster.

My first round prediction:

If we move up to 3: We take Richardson Chance That happens: 33%
If we stay at 5: We take Claiborne Chance of happening: 50%
If we move down because both are off the board at 5: Take Barron, Cox, or Keuchly: Chance that happens: 17%

I'd say there is an 83% chance the Vikes are taking Khalil. Where? No clue. However, we've known for a while now that they have been wanting to move back for more picks.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Thing IS; I don't think we'd double up on LBs. Foster is going to fill a starting spot. With the increase in passing offense, only the WILL and MIKE stay on the field most of the time. The SAM isn't as important as it used to be, and I think Watson/Black can fill that role this year.

I really hate repeating myself some times, but if you try to address needs in the draft, especially at weak positions, then it's going to burn you. We can't fill all of our needs in the draft, especially if we reach for guys.

I love Lavonte David, but what if we see Foster as a WLB? Then we'll target a MLB? I don't know what the Bucs board looks like, but I have an idea of the type of players we may target due to Schiano's defensive philosophy.

And again, I think I've seen more scouts and analysts say about Keuchly: Good football player, but not dynamic. More of the Sean Lee/Laurenitis/Paul Posluszny mold. Hm.. All 3 were 2nd round picks. Guy doesn't belong in the top 10.

Kuechly is a much better prospect than all three of those Linebackers. Sean Lee is fantastic dropping back in coverage, but isn't as sound in run defense. The opposite can be said of Laurenaitas and Poz who are both quality thumpers.

Kuechly has it all in my opinion. He is a great leader, a great tackler and is great in pass defense. Does this justify using the 5th pick on him? Perhaps not, but comparing him to those three guys is selling him short.

Also there is no way we trade up. Dominik has constantly preached about adding talent through the draft. Building through the draft. Trading up to 3 doesn't fit in with that mantra.

[kBuc5]

Still think Blacmon to the Browns can happen. Stay at 5 Dominick, no need to get an itchy trigger finger, we need our picks.