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Old 11-23-2011, 01:18 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
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The guys a monster... Loved him pre draft, but I don't know if I would have gave up that many picks for him. Again If he ends up being a Andre Johnson or Fitz the trade is worth every penny.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by d34ng3l021 View Post
When you think of the Falcons, do you think of a finesse passing team like the Packers, Saints, Patriots? Since the new crew has taken over Atlanta, the Falcons have always, always been a run-to-control-the-clock team and it has brought much success. I don't expect a jump into the top 5 in terms of passing, but I do expect improvement and I see it. Wait until the end of the season when JJ starts playing consistently and Ryan learns to balance throwing to Tony G, Roddy White, HD83, and JJ.
If their offense is predicated upon executing a smashmouth, grind-it-out running game, then why did they trade two drafts for a WR, especially when they already had a good one in Roddy White?

Unless their goal is to mimic the Colts and Packers teams of the NFL and their high-flying passing attacks, it makes no sense to make the Julio Jones trade. And if that *was* the goal of the Falcons coaches and front office, then they have clearly failed thus far, as their passing attack is no better than average.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Torrey Smith has nothing on Julio Jones. Sure, I can see the argument for keeping the picks, taking Smith to open things up for everyone else but Smith really isn't even that good. He has probably the smallest hands for a WR in the NFL, never could catch to begin with so those 2 problems compound eachother, and can just run deep.


Even last week he almost dropped that ball until he pinned it to his chest, which is what he's always done. At least Julio is a guy you can build around for 10 years. If you were gonna grade this trade on whether or not ATL won a SB, or got there, it was going to be a failure no matter what.


He's a rookie WR, it's a bit unrealistic to expect him to come in and make this team better then a team like GB in all facets of their game.
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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At least Julio is a guy you can build around for 10 years.
You can build around a wide receiver? When has this been done successfully?
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, it's Matt Ryan. He's the reason why it hasn't worked out the way you want.

Matt Ryan is a very solid qb, but I don't see a great qb in him. He has a very weak arm, he is wildly inconsistent, and he doesn't have the goods to just line up shotgun the whole game and fling it all over the field. He's just not that guy, and I don't think he ever will be.

He's already peaked as a qb. He is what he is. Having that said, he's good enough to win a championship with if you build around him the right way. And at the end of the day, that's all you ask for.
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Honestly, it's Matt Ryan.
Yeah, Matt Ryan is the reason Julio has had a hurt hamstring and missed multiple games...
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Old 11-25-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, Matt Ryan is the reason Julio has had a hurt hamstring and missed multiple games...
The complaint last year was that the offense was too vanilla, that they needed to open it up and give Ryan more freedom to do his thing.

It was done this year. And it didn't work. When they went back to running to set up the pass, they started having much more success on offense.

It's not Julio Jones. It's Matt Ryan. He's just not that guy.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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You can build around a wide receiver? When has this been done successfully?
That's not what I meant. I meant he's a complete WR. He's a #1 WR that can be a deep threat, run intermediate routes, be great in the red zone, anything you ask. Guys like Torrey Smith just run deep, as fast as they can. That's nice to have, but you can't structure an offense around that if he's your best WR.


Now the problem lies in that you have to ask yourself if having another WR was what ATL needed to win a championship, no matter how good that WR was. It seems fairly obvious(at least to me) that even for how good Julio is he's not going to help the entire team beat New Orleans or Green Bay.


Everyone keeps saying "well in hindsight they could have taken Torrey Smity/Greg Little and stayed put" which is true. But for all we know both of those guys could end up never amounting to anything note worthy and I think Julio has shown the tools to be a very dominate WR in this league. I didn't mean necessarily build the team around him.


He'd probably of had to come in with a Randy Moss type of rookie year to expect him to improve the entire team and that's unfair to him, but ATL ante'd up the price so expectations were expected to be high. I don't mind these trades every once in awhile.


Look at teams like the Panthers & Chargers. How many 2nd & 3rd rd picks have these guys wasted trading up for bums or disappointments? Chargers have even blown their 1st rd picks quite a bit lately.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan has never been a guy who excelled at throwing the deep ball. He's an accurate passer on short and intermediate passes. His deep balls, however, are rarely on target when I've seen him play. I think he has the ability to do it, but he has little to no experience doing it. With a full off season to work on it I expect it to be better next year.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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I think he had time to work on it, we're never going to see a good deep ball from Matt Ryan.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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The complaint last year was that the offense was too vanilla, that they needed to open it up and give Ryan more freedom to do his thing.

It was done this year. And it didn't work. When they went back to running to set up the pass, they started having much more success on offense.

It's not Julio Jones. It's Matt Ryan. He's just not that guy.
It's still the middle of the season. Whether it works will be decided on the field, not a message board.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan's issues with arm strength and throwing the deep ball exist more in message board land than reality. Ryan is easily one of the top dozen QBs in football and helps his team win a lot of games.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Is it completely fraudulent of me to mention Greg Little leads all rookies in catches?
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan's issues with arm strength and throwing the deep ball exist more in message board land than reality. Ryan is easily one of the top dozen QBs in football and helps his team win a lot of games.
What does your first sentence have to do with the second?

The fact that he wins doesn't mean his deep ball is good.
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Old 11-25-2011, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan's issues with arm strength and throwing the deep ball exist more in message board land than reality. Ryan is easily one of the top dozen QBs in football and helps his team win a lot of games.
Why is it that you tend to always resort back to the "well this is just a message board" response, what does that even mean? Do opinions not count because nobody here is a certified scout, or is discussion supposed to be shut down because it's not what you like to hear?


You made the same silly comments before about this being a message board, then proceed to follow that up by never providing any insight or rebuttle. Are you trying to say that the deep ball is the strength to Matt Ryan's game?


Or do you need to remind us that the game is played on the field and not a message board, because we all seem to forget that until you remind us.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Everyone keeps saying "well in hindsight they could have taken Torrey Smity/Greg Little and stayed put"
It's not hindsight when people were saying it at the time of the draft. It was a stupid trade then, and Little and Smith's success just make it look more idiotic.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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It's not hindsight when people were saying it at the time of the draft. It was a stupid trade then, and Little and Smith's success just make it look more idiotic.
Haha, you enjoy continuing your losing ways. The Cleveland Browns keep trading out of the top 10, missing on the elite talent your team desperately needs. Depth and mediocre players can only bring the Browns so far. I'd love to look back at this five years from now when the Browns still at the bottom of the AFC North pack.
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Old 11-25-2011, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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It's not hindsight when people were saying it at the time of the draft. It was a stupid trade then, and Little and Smith's success just make it look more idiotic.

Neither of those guys project to be a #1 WR, nor do they in the future. OMG they produced as a rookie game overzz. So did you expect Greg Little and Torrey Smith to do absolutely nothing as a rookie? They aren't bad players, but let's not run in after 10 weeks saying "hahahaahah Falcons are losers" because Little had a 5 catch, 70 yard game.


Torrey Smith has been hot and cold all season and always will be, what has he shown you other then his ability to run deep? He still can't catch, and hasn't shown me anything else to his game.

I guess stats to you under any compacity are impressive. Danny Amendola for All-Pro last year.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Neither of those guys project to be a #1 WR, nor do they in the future. OMG they produced as a rookie game overzz. So did you expect Greg Little and Torrey Smith to do absolutely nothing as a rookie? They aren't bad players, but let's not run in after 10 weeks saying "hahahaahah Falcons are losers" because Little had a 5 catch, 70 yard game.


Torrey Smith has been hot and cold all season and always will be, what has he shown you other then his ability to run deep? He still can't catch, and hasn't shown me anything else to his game.

I guess stats to you under any compacity are impressive. Danny Amendola for All-Pro last year.
Yeah, because I said so much about stats...

It was an idiotic trade because the Falcons gave up two first-round draft picks, a second-round draft pick, and two fourth-round draft picks for a wide receiver who may or may not turn out.

Add in the fact that two rookies who the Falcons could have gotten in the second round are also producing, and the trade looks even worse.
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, because I said so much about stats...

It was an idiotic trade because the Falcons gave up two first-round draft picks, a second-round draft pick, and two fourth-round draft picks for a wide receiver who may or may not turn out.

Add in the fact that two rookies who the Falcons could have gotten in the second round are also producing, and the trade looks even worse.

You keep bringing up how other guys are producing, producing=stats so yea..Obviously to you that's reasons for why it was a bad trade because WR's have stats who they could have gotten later. If you thought it was a terrible trade before then cool, nothing was likely going to change your mind, but brining up how 2 other rookie WR's have produced is a poor way to do it.


The fact that Little and Smith have stats has little to do with the trade, if anything. If 1 of them shows to be a solidified threat in this league then sure, but you can't say that about either guy right now. Unless your under the impression that either guy has done enough to shed the bust label at this point in the season.


I will always feel the price was incredibly steep, but nobody is right or wrong after 10 games. It certainly isn't making the case better or worse for 1 side that Smith and Little have some stats. They are 2nd round picks hell yea they are expected to produce at least a little.


I guess everyone is ready to annoint Smith already because he is a good deep threat even though he's going to struggle with drops his entire career. As for Little, with his skill set, in a WCO, with zero play-makers on that team, I'd say pretty much everyone expected him to produce.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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Torrey Smith just runs streaks or deep posts. His game needs a ton of development before we call him the 2nd coming of anything.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, because I said so much about stats...

It was an idiotic trade because the Falcons gave up two first-round draft picks, a second-round draft pick, and two fourth-round draft picks for a wide receiver who may or may not turn out.

Add in the fact that two rookies who the Falcons could have gotten in the second round are also producing, and the trade looks even worse.
Randall Cobb was taken late in that 2nd round as well. Phil Taylor was taken with a pick the Falcons traded as well and he is having a very good rookie season.
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Old 11-25-2011, 05:42 PM    (permalink
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I think it's safe to say that the Falcons got themselves a hell of a player, but gave up way too much in the process of getting him.

The bottom line is this, they made this trade bc they felt that getting Jones would get them over the hump and elevate this current team into a SB caliber team. They are going for it all this year. So if that doesn't happen, then they failed to accomplish what they set out to accomplish.

He's going to be a great player, but they gave up too much for him. That's pretty much all there is to it.
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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The complaint last year was that the offense was too vanilla, that they needed to open it up and give Ryan more freedom to do his thing.

It was done this year. And it didn't work. When they went back to running to set up the pass, they started having much more success on offense.

It's not Julio Jones. It's Matt Ryan. He's just not that guy.

Somewhat true. The offense was too vanilla, and the scheme lacked a lot of 20+ yard (explosive) plays because it was often a lot of short/intermediate stuff without a lot of opportunity for YAC. While all Falcons fans wanted to see more deep balls, we also wanted Matt to be able to do what he's been doing the last few games. Call the game. Right now almost every play Matt is using an audible to what he sees fit, and then we run our no huddle and let Matt read the defense. Mularkey is bad and Matt seems to have a lot more success in controlling the offense.

What happened early this year is we (read Mularkey) listened to the criticism and decided to fall in love with deep balls to Julio. Only issues with that: Our OL got exposed, constant bombs isn't playing to Julio's strength, and it certainly isn't playing to Matt's strength.


We have been running to set up the pass more, but that's mostly based on Matt (not Mularkey) making the right checks, getting us into better situations, and using 2-3 deep balls a game to keep the D more honest, and hitting them with a lot more success.


As far as Matt not being the guy, like you've said said, I think a good comparison is pre 2011 Eli Manning. What he's going to do is going to go beyond the stats, but probably won't ever evolve out of the top 8-12 range, but it's enough to win, especially with a running game foundation. Disappointing considering what everyone expected after year one, but good enough to eventually get us that Superbowl. Now as Falcons fans we just have to hope that soon it all clicks, like it has for Manning thus far this year.

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I think it's safe to say that the Falcons got themselves a hell of a player, but gave up way too much in the process of getting him.

The bottom line is this, they made this trade bc they felt that getting Jones would get them over the hump and elevate this current team into a SB caliber team. They are going for it all this year. So if that doesn't happen, then they failed to accomplish what they set out to accomplish.

He's going to be a great player, but they gave up too much for him. That's pretty much all there is to it.

I think it goes a little bit beyond this win a Superbowl this year or bust. It was too much to pay, but one thing it certainly did was guarantee Matt will have someone to lean on (which he needs) throughout his career. And this has become even more essential now that Roddy has massively regressed.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Ah, such a wonderful trade. I love it!
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