The ATL Trade?

[ImBrotherCain]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

In regards to Atlanta's defense, they are average. Not bad, not great, but average.

Very blue collar. You won't see star names or talent jump out at you, but a bunch of solid blue collar guys who work together to get the job done. I think this will be an issue when you face a team like the Packers bc when you go against a star studded offense, a blue collar D can only do so much, but as a defense that can hold up in the regular season and do enough to compliment your offense, it gets the job done.

But that's the problem, the playoffs are a different animal and there is just not enough talent on that defense to really get after it in the postseason, and it will show. You can't hide anything in the playoffs. Ask the Patriots, they can't stretch the field, and it got exposed by the Jets in the playoffs.

The Falcons blue collar D couldn't hide in the playoffs. You can't hide in the playoffs, and if they really want to take the next step, they need more talent on defense.

I will say this, I do like their LB core quite a bit. Lofton is a beast, and I think Spoon will develop to be a nice compliment to him. The problems I have is

1. They rely WAY too much on Abraham for a pass rush. The guy is good every other year, and he's getting old. You can't rely on him to be your pass rush anymore, he needs help. They need another pass rusher, specifically a DE in the worst way.

2. I will give their safeties a pass, I think Moore can develop into a playmaker at safety, or at least a blue collar guy back there that gives them a good enough presence, but they need better depth at CB. In today's league, you need 3 very good CBs. They have 2 solid guys in Robinson and Grimes (both of whom I think aren't as great as their perception), but you need that nickel CB to be just as good as your 2 starters.

Their defense is built to compliment their offense, so going after star talent on offense wasn't a terrible idea. I just think they have more holes to fill and it won't be easy with how much they gave up to get that explosive player.

Is it just me or did you say "Blue" a lot.

[bigbluedefense]

What can I say, that's the best way to describe their defense. I think Falcon fans will back me up on that.

[ArkyRamsFan]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Non sequitor argument! Just because things changed in the past does not mean they'll change in the future!

Are you serious or are you being silly again?

1.) Sequitur is spelled with a 'u' not an 'o'.

2.) I said "Things CAN and do change." Note I did not say 'Things WILL change...' or anything along those lines.

3.) Please read people's posts as they are written without interjecting your own bias into the equation.

Thank you.

[ImBrotherCain]

No I agree with you. I just thought it was funny.

Pass rush is a big concern. With a lack of a consistent pass rush and pretty much a no name secondary they aren't doing themselves any favors.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by ImBrotherCain

No I agree with you. I just thought it was funny.

Pass rush is a big concern. With a lack of a consistent pass rush and pretty much a no name secondary they aren't doing themselves any favors.

Their defense could become a poor man's Bears defense if you think about it.

The Bears defense is all about their LBs. Urlacher and Briggs absolutely patrol the middle of the field and take it away, plus they stop the run and spy the qb.

So then Chicago just goes into that Tampa 2 shell to take away the deep ball and they hope and pray Peppers creates a pass rush on the dline.

The Falcons defense is built the same way, only with lesser talents at each position.

[onejayhawk]

Originally Posted by ArkyRamsFan

Another non sequitur argument. What Cleveland has done in past drafts is not indicative of what they will do with the picks acquired in this trade because of a myriad of reasons.

Chiefly among them is the new regime featuring Mike Homgren which has only been in place for 2 years now.

If the Browns had the same bumbling management team in place currently as they had in the past, your point would have more credibility.

BTW it wasn't too long ago that the Falcons themselves were also among the worst organizations at the draft.

Things can and do change.

Past performance is not a guarantee of future ineptitude? True, but it is the best thing we have.

J

[Revis Island]

William Moore was a stud for Atlanta last season. They also have two solid corners in Brent Grimes and Dunta Robinson, Thomas DeCoud was pretty trash however and they never had a solid nickel. I would say the secondary is better than people give them credit for.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

What can I say, that's the best way to describe their defense. I think Falcon fans will back me up on that.

You are right. They very much take on the personality of Smitty.

Originally Posted by Revis Island

William Moore was a stud for Atlanta last season. They also have two solid corners in Brent Grimes and Dunta Robinson, Thomas DeCoud was pretty trash however and they never had a solid nickel. I would say the secondary is better than people give them credit for.

This is all true. The thing with DeCoud is he played really well the year before. We all expected him to really burst on the scene this year (like Willy Mo did), but he regressed.

[TitanHope]

Originally Posted by onejayhawk

Past performance is not a guarantee of future ineptitude? True, but it is the best thing we have.

J

Which would have more relevance if Phil Savage and Romeo Crennel were leading the Browns and not Mike Holmgren and Pat Shurmur. This is the first draft that Holmgren/Shurmur have put together, so there is no past performance to base your projection on - only the failures of the now departed former Browns GM's and HC's, and it's not only unfair, but completely asinine, to hold them against the current regime.

Besides, I'd label Mike Holmgren's career as many things, and "inept" would not be one of them.

[Halsey]

Reports out of Falcon's camp suggest Julio Jones will be ready to be a major contributor from day 1. A couple of quotes:

"may already be the most impressive player" at Falcons training camp.

"more explosive off the ball than they thought."

Mike Mayock


"This kid Julio Jones is the real deal. He's the best incoming receiver I've ever played with. Come to think of it, it's not even close."

Tony Gonzalez

"Look the **** out.."

Me

[K Train]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Reports out of Falcon's camp suggest Julio Jones will be ready to be a major contributor from day 1. A couple of quotes:

"may already be the most impressive player" at Falcons training camp.

"more explosive off the ball than they thought."

Mike Mayock


"This kid Julio Jones is the real deal. He's the best incoming receiver I've ever played with. Come to think of it, it's not even close."

Tony Gonzalez

"Look the **** out.."

Me

im not surprised by any of this, the dude is gonna be magical

[TitanHope]

At least they brought in a starting caliber DE in Ray Edwards. He's not a world beater, but he's a solid all-around player and they didn't overpay. I'm pretty sure it's around what Antwan Odom got from Cincy after the '08 season, and he had the exact same concerns coming off an 8 sack season across from Haynesworth and Vanden Bosch.

But albeit, Odom became a busted FA signing, but he had injuries, failed drug test, and played for Cincy, so...

[Halsey]

Hopefully Abraham, Babs and Peria Jerry will have good years so that Edwards continues to play on a line with other good players.

[no bare feet]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Hopefully Abraham, Babs and Peria Jerry will have good years so that Edwards continues to play on a line with other good players.

Hope in one hand, **** in the other lets see which one fills up first.

[the_dark_knight]

Injuries have slowed down the overall numbers for Jones, but anyone wanna hate on this trade anymore? LOL. Jones is pure beast.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by the_dark_knight

Injuries have slowed down the overall numbers for Jones, but anyone wanna hate on this trade anymore? LOL. Jones is pure beast.

so it's your suggestion that the only reason anyone didn't think this was the greatest trade made in the history of the nfl was because they thought julio jones was terrible?

[SolidGold]

I think some of Atlanta's struggles this year can be attributed to forcing the ball to Jones. i think he is going to be a very good player but they needed to have him produce early on the field to justify trading all they did for him. With him out of the line up ATL has not really skipped a beat and Roddy White and Harry Douglas are getting more targets. When Julio was playing it seems that Ryan is almost forced to get him the ball no matter what.

[JBCX]

This trade was terrible.

No WR is worth that much. You only trade multiple 1st round picks for QBs.

[Halsey]

Right now the trade does not look good for Atlanta, mainly due to Jones missing so many games. However, if Jones comes back and is a difference maker down the stretch, and the Falcons makes the playoffs, does it really matter that much that he missed some games.

In hindsight, it can certainly be argued that the Falcons should have just stayed at 27 and taken Torrey Smith.

[bigbuc]

Still think they gave up way too much for Jones. Do I think he's a good player, yes I do. But he needs to be Andre 3000 or Fitz good to make this trade the right move by ATL

[d34ng3l021]

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

Exactly. It's nice to finally agree on something. Julio Jones' impact on this team is more than the number of catches and yards he gains. Matt Ryan, Michael Turner, and Roddy White all had career lows in YPA and YPC (6.5, 4.1, and 12.1) and that is what caused the offense to sputter out. Some of the non-explosiveness was on purpose to keep the weak Falcon's defense off the field, but explosive plays are needed to if the Falcons are to fall behind more than 14 points. The immediate returns of this trade are going to be measured through the increase in the star trio's efficiency averages; Jones can gain anywhere between 300-900 yards, but if the trio's YPA and YPC rises noticeably to 7.0, 4.5, and 14.0, I will consider the Jones' trade a success. That is how the success of this trade is to be measured because that is why the trade happened. I know that next season people will be calling the Julio Jones trade a bust because he didn't put up 850 yards with 8 TDs in his rookie season, but remember to check out the rest of the team's success.

That is what I posted around when the trade happened. Julio Jones was brought in to bring an explosive element to the whole offense, not just put up studly numbers. Midway through the season, shall we see how Atlanta is doing explosively?

Matt Ryan's YPA has gone from 6.5 to 7.3. Roddy White's YPC has gone up from 12.1 to 13.1. Tony Gonzalez's YPC has gone up from 9.4 to 11.2. Michael Turner's YPC has gone up from 4.1 to 4.4. JJ's YPC sits pretty at 16.6.

Atlanta's passing offense ranks 9th in plays of 40+ and 11th in plays of 20+ yards (they finished the season 22nd and 31st, respectively, last year). Atlanta's rushing offense ranks 4th in plays of 40+ and 9th in plays of 20+ yards (they finished 18th and 12th last year).

Not too shabby for an offense not quite in sync yet. And, with the defense gelling together well, we'll see how formidable the Falcons will be down the line.

[Bulldogs]

Originally Posted by the_dark_knight

Injuries have slowed down the overall numbers for Jones, but anyone wanna hate on this trade anymore? LOL. Jones is pure beast.

Ignore this guy. He is the new jesus of the Falcons' forum. Absolutely no need to bump this thread. I'm the biggest supporter of Jones and obviously we haven't won as of now because of injuries. However, I don't think it's fair to judge this until 2-3 years down the road. When healthy Julio has been a stud, hopefully he keeps it up.

[WinslowBodden]

Just wait until Phil Taylor ends up flopping in the long run, Greg Little ends up being nothing more than a #2 and then we package a **** load of picks next year for Luck including the ATL pick and he ends up being the next Ryan Leaf. Cleveland manages to **** everything up.

[JBCX]

Originally Posted by d34ng3l021

That is what I posted around when the trade happened. Julio Jones was brought in to bring an explosive element to the whole offense, not just put up studly numbers. Midway through the season, shall we see how Atlanta is doing explosively?

Matt Ryan's YPA has gone from 6.5 to 7.3. Roddy White's YPC has gone up from 12.1 to 13.1. Tony Gonzalez's YPC has gone up from 9.4 to 11.2. Michael Turner's YPC has gone up from 4.1 to 4.4. JJ's YPC sits pretty at 16.6.

Atlanta's passing offense ranks 9th in plays of 40+ and 11th in plays of 20+ yards (they finished the season 22nd and 31st, respectively, last year). Atlanta's rushing offense ranks 4th in plays of 40+ and 9th in plays of 20+ yards (they finished 18th and 12th last year).

Not too shabby for an offense not quite in sync yet. And, with the defense gelling together well, we'll see how formidable the Falcons will be down the line.

Here are the numbers that matter:

The Falcons have scored 235 points so far this season (23.5 points/game), which is only 14th of 32 in the NFL.

Matt Ryan has thrown 15 passing TDs, which is tied for 12th in the NFL. Matt Ryan has also thrown 2484 passing yards, which is 10th in the NFL.

So basically speaking, the offense is still a plain-jane, middle-of-the-road passing offense. We'll see what Jones and Ryan can do next year, but as of right now, that trade did very little for them, in my opinion.

[d34ng3l021]

Originally Posted by JBCX

Here are the numbers that matter:

The Falcons have scored 235 points so far this season (23.5 points/game), which is only 14th of 32 in the NFL.

Matt Ryan has thrown 15 passing TDs, which is tied for 12th in the NFL. Matt Ryan has also thrown 2484 passing yards, which is 10th in the NFL.

So basically speaking, the offense is still a plain-jane, middle-of-the-road passing offense. We'll see what Jones and Ryan can do next year, but as of right now, that trade did very little for them, in my opinion.

When you think of the Falcons, do you think of a finesse passing team like the Packers, Saints, Patriots? Since the new crew has taken over Atlanta, the Falcons have always, always been a run-to-control-the-clock team and it has brought much success. I don't expect a jump into the top 5 in terms of passing, but I do expect improvement and I see it. Wait until the end of the season when JJ starts playing consistently and Ryan learns to balance throwing to Tony G, Roddy White, HD83, and JJ.