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Old 02-19-2012, 10:21 AM    (permalink
Bostonblows91
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I really dislike people saying this. There is very rarely a GM that drafts sheerly on value. Reese drafts for need, but its not always an immediate need and its not always in the order that the media and other people think we should. Ross, Phillips, Nicks, JPP, and Prince were all need picks. Ross because obviously Sam Madison and RW McQuarters were old as hell, Webster wasn't living up to his potential. Phillips because we blew at safety for awhile, Shaun Williams, Butler, He who shall not be named, Gibril wilson leaving in FA, and Michael Johnson was our only apt safety. Nicks because Toomer and Plax were gone and we only had steve smith and mario manningham who hadnt really done much. JPP was need because we like to rotate passrushers, kiwi plays some LB, and because of Osi's contract disputes. Prince was need because this year thomas and ross are FA's.

So now looking at it, we aren't just drafting for need, we are drafting for need in a year or two sometimes because then we don't have to rush a rookie into a starting role. This is good because it allows for the rookie to become acclimated to being an NFL player before being leaned on as an NFL starter.

Edit:

Oh and I want David Wilson or Lamar Miller asap. Receiving threat + speed please
David wilson is overrated, put on the last game he played. I'm pretty sure he had a run for -20 yards

Edit: And sorry, how was JPP need again? lol. I seem to remember every giants fan QQing that we took guys like JPP, joseph and austin so high, instead of going O-Line. Not to mention i remember reading that JPP was #2 overall on their board that year.

Edit 2: http://www.bigblueview.com/2011/12/2...of-jerry-reese since i don't feel like typing all of that out in my own words =P

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Old 02-19-2012, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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So I guess you like Zach Brown?
I think Zach Brown is in the mix at 32. What our LBs have lacked is speed and athleticism, which Brown has in spades. He would likely be a WLB for us.

It would likely mean eventually moving to SLB or maybe even MLB. If Osi departs Kiwi would get a more reps on the Dline in passing situations. Goff or Blackburn could be resigned cheaply as a two down mike.

The other dark horse I like is Mark Barron if he is there, he would be an ideal replacement for Grant in Fewell's 3 safety sets.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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I think Zach Brown is in the mix at 32. What our LBs have lacked is speed and athleticism, which Brown has in spades. He would likely be a WLB for us.

It would likely mean eventually moving to SLB or maybe even MLB. If Osi departs Kiwi would get a more reps on the Dline in passing situations. Goff or Blackburn could be resigned cheaply as a two down mike.

The other dark horse I like is Mark Barron if he is there, he would be an ideal replacement for Grant in Fewell's 3 safety sets.
Yea i definitely wouldn't complain if we added barron in round one, especially if he fell to us at 32. One guy i'm looking at is travis lewis out of oklahoma, he was a first round prospect last year before he decided to go back, broke his foot in preseason and had a meh year, i'd love to see what the kid can do another year removed from the injury, especially in the 3rd-4th.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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I think Zach Brown is in the mix at 32. What our LBs have lacked is speed and athleticism, which Brown has in spades. He would likely be a WLB for us.

It would likely mean eventually moving to SLB or maybe even MLB. If Osi departs Kiwi would get a more reps on the Dline in passing situations. Goff or Blackburn could be resigned cheaply as a two down mike.

The other dark horse I like is Mark Barron if he is there, he would be an ideal replacement for Grant in Fewell's 3 safety sets.
I don't have a problem with Brown I was just saying that cause Brown was listed as option 1 2 and 3 in touchdown makers post.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Quick mock

1. TE Coby Fleener - Immediate threat at a position of need
2. S Harrison Smith - Physical, smart safety to replace Grant
3. RB LaMichael James - Never saw Barry Sander play, but I imagine he looked like James
4. OT Michael Schwartz - May the Schwartz be with you
5. WR Ryan Broyles - 2nd round pick prior to ACL
6. RB Jonas Gray - See above
7. DE Donte Paige-Moss - See above

We get 3 players that can make an impact immediately. 3 players that can be huge steals in year 2 and down the road once they recover from knee injuries.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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I like Zach Brown, but I'm intrigued with Travis Lewis. I was a big Lewis fan last year, and if he can regain his athleticism, I think he's a great gamble in the 2nd or 3rd round (we may have to take him in the 2nd if we want him).

I wouldn't be opposed to grabbing a guy like Lewis or Brown, bulking them up a little, and hoping they can become a Daryl Washington type of player who was great sideline to sideline in college, bulked up his rookie year, and is now a stud who can do it all.
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Old 02-20-2012, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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And we're not gonna get a safety guys. We believe in Tyler Sash. He's going to be our 3rd safety next year.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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And we're not gonna get a safety guys. We believe in Tyler Sash. He's going to be our 3rd safety next year.
I disagree. I believe he's a career special teamer. Doesn't have the necessary physical tools. He dropped to the 6th for a reason. Look at his combine video on NFL.com and combine numbers compared to other safeties. He looked like a slow, weak, short limbed white guy. He looked out of place. He's in the same boat as Greg Jones. Great college career, but don't have the tools to translate to the NFL.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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David wilson is overrated, put on the last game he played. I'm pretty sure he had a run for -20 yards

Edit: And sorry, how was JPP need again? lol. I seem to remember every giants fan QQing that we took guys like JPP, joseph and austin so high, instead of going O-Line. Not to mention i remember reading that JPP was #2 overall on their board that year.

Edit 2: http://www.bigblueview.com/2011/12/2...of-jerry-reese since i don't feel like typing all of that out in my own words =P
Passrushers are always a need. Regardless of the fact that Osi was terrible, Tuck was often injured, and Kiwi had been moving back and forth between LB and DE. It was good value for our board and paid off, but don't be irrational and say it wasn't a need. We are drafting for needs that would open up in a year or two, and the same was apparent for Kiwi when we drafted him. Strahan was close to retirement, Tuck hadn't emerged yet. If we were drafting for value, why don't we draft a QB? Because we are in a good position and mentality where we can afford to take a need or a need that might open up in another year or two. Its not just value.

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I disagree. I believe he's a career special teamer. Doesn't have the necessary physical tools. He dropped to the 6th for a reason. Look at his combine video on NFL.com and combine numbers compared to other safeties. He looked like a slow, weak, short limbed white guy. He looked out of place. He's in the same boat as Greg Jones. Great college career, but don't have the tools to translate to the NFL.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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That's bullcrap. There is no way Brady is 6'4" and half. He's closer to 6'2" than 6'4".
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:50 PM    (permalink
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Passrushers are always a need. Regardless of the fact that Osi was terrible, Tuck was often injured, and Kiwi had been moving back and forth between LB and DE. It was good value for our board and paid off, but don't be irrational and say it wasn't a need. We are drafting for needs that would open up in a year or two, and the same was apparent for Kiwi when we drafted him. Strahan was close to retirement, Tuck hadn't emerged yet. If we were drafting for value, why don't we draft a QB? Because we are in a good position and mentality where we can afford to take a need or a need that might open up in another year or two. Its not just value.



Lol, that means you know what our needs will be 2-3 years down the road? And what's the possibility of reese drafting his BPA and having him not end up being a need in a year or two? You could make that argument for any position in the game.

Edit: and our biggest needs last offseason were LB and OL, he didn't draft either until the fourth round...so you think he drafted prince because he thinks the giants will NEED him in "1-2 years" rather than him drafting him because he was a top prospect that fell on draft day?

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Old 02-20-2012, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I was a big Lewis fan as well, wouldn't mind taking him. Also love the idea of taking a late flier on Broyles. LOVED him prior to that devastating injury.

It depends on if Mario leaves or not. If he does, we need a WR fairly early. We don't have the money to go out and get a good replacement either.

Part of me actually thinks a line of Beatty-Petrus-Baas-Snee-Diehl (you can flip Beatty and DD if you wish) could actually work. I wouldn't mind an upgrade, but I think it could be a fairly decent line if that's how the chips fall.

I also have been on record saying I'd be fine with Chase as the starting MIKE to start the season and I stand by that.

We NEED TE, WR replacement, CB depth (again depends on TT and Ross signing), and a running back.

I also think Grant comes back on a cheap one year deal. Don't see Sash as the answer. Intrigued by Chad Jones though
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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I don't mind us taking Travis Lewis either, he would be a nice fit in the third round.
I actually don't mind the idea of a guy like Brown or Lewis in the middle, we have the big guys up front to let that happen.

What do people think about Nigel Bradham? I haven't seen him play, but he seems intriguing.

Speed and athleticism at LB seems to be our biggest area we can upgrade. I think we will address TE in free agency.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:01 AM    (permalink
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Lol, that means you know what our needs will be 2-3 years down the road? And what's the possibility of reese drafting his BPA and having him not end up being a need in a year or two? You could make that argument for any position in the game.

Edit: and our biggest needs last offseason were LB and OL, he didn't draft either until the fourth round...so you think he drafted prince because he thinks the giants will NEED him in "1-2 years" rather than him drafting him because he was a top prospect that fell on draft day?
I mean, when you have contracts ending at a position, possible retirement, problems with wages, or a player that is complaining, it isn't that hard to predict some needs in the future.

Quote:
And what's the possibility of reese drafting his BPA and having him not end up being a need in a year or two?
Exactly my point. Almost every position is a need. There are few exceptions like a franchise QB or other long term valuable starters. My point is that the giants have been drafting players in advance for needs that may open up so that they can groom them into the system before they need to start.

I am not saying that he doesn't take value, he just doesn't draft purely for value. There is a reason for each pick. We didn't draft linebackers untill the later rounds and offensive linemen until later typically, and this is just my observation, because they have become severely devalued. Instead, quick and undersized linebackers are more useful, and linemen don't need to be elite for an offense to flourish.

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I also think Grant comes back on a cheap one year deal. Don't see Sash as the answer. Intrigued by Chad Jones though
Agree on Grant, He is one of our leaders, got to have him. You really think Chad Jones comes back this year?
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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Reese has always even said all he does is take the BPA..lol oh well done arguing that.
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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I think both WR and DE are going to be 2 positions we need to monitor this offseason.

If Mario leaves in FA, then we need a WR. Bc I don't believe in Jernigan, nor do I believe in Barden. I know Barden has a lot of supporters here, but think about this for a second: He didn't even dress for our entire playoff run. Our entire playoff run! Devin Thomas and Jernigan saw playing time before he did. Think about that. If Mario leaves we need another WR.

And DE is always a need. If Osi is traded, we need a DE. Because Kiwi is on the final year of his contract, and while I love Kiwi, he probably won't be worth an extension (not dominant enough of a pass rusher to extend and tie money into), which means we'll be down 2 DEs. And we all know our defense lives and dies with pressure up front. We need at least 3 dominant DEs in our rotation.

Not to mention the fact that Tuck's contract is coming up, so we need another DE just in case for that scenario as well.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I think both WR and DE are going to be 2 positions we need to monitor this offseason.

If Mario leaves in FA, then we need a WR. Bc I don't believe in Jernigan, nor do I believe in Barden. I know Barden has a lot of supporters here, but think about this for a second: He didn't even dress for our entire playoff run. Our entire playoff run! Devin Thomas and Jernigan saw playing time before he did. Think about that. If Mario leaves we need another WR.

And DE is always a need. If Osi is traded, we need a DE. Because Kiwi is on the final year of his contract, and while I love Kiwi, he probably won't be worth an extension (not dominant enough of a pass rusher to extend and tie money into), which means we'll be down 2 DEs. And we all know our defense lives and dies with pressure up front. We need at least 3 dominant DEs in our rotation.

Not to mention the fact that Tuck's contract is coming up, so we need another DE just in case for that scenario as well.
Yea it's a legitimate point about depth with those positions, but if they're a need then our OL and TE are glaring needs. I'd give jerningan another few seasons before throwing the towel in on him, if he was going to replace anyone it'd be MM, they have similar play styles. Kiwi is underrated imo, sure his pass rushing skills weren't what they were last year before he got hurt, but the way he stops the run is absolutely essential for our LB corps right now.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Yea it's a legitimate point about depth with those positions, but if they're a need then our OL and TE are glaring needs. I'd give jerningan another few seasons before throwing the towel in on him, if he was going to replace anyone it'd be MM, they have similar play styles. Kiwi is underrated imo, sure his pass rushing skills weren't what they were last year before he got hurt, but the way he stops the run is absolutely essential for our LB corps right now.
I don't disagree with either point. I do want to keep our strengths strong though. So I wouldn't mind at all if we go pass rusher or WR early for that reason.

Of course if a stud OL or LB is there, than take him. But I don't want us to reach for "need" when a better player is available on the board that could maintain our strengths for the coming years with depth. To me, that's just as important as filling the more critical needs.

Bc I feel that Eli can work with our oline as is, even though it's mediocre. And we won 2 SBs with crappy LBs so shoot, why not stick to the blueprint and hope you land a LB along the way. Right?
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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I think both WR and DE are going to be 2 positions we need to monitor this offseason.

If Mario leaves in FA, then we need a WR. Bc I don't believe in Jernigan, nor do I believe in Barden. I know Barden has a lot of supporters here, but think about this for a second: He didn't even dress for our entire playoff run. Our entire playoff run! Devin Thomas and Jernigan saw playing time before he did. Think about that. If Mario leaves we need another WR.

And DE is always a need. If Osi is traded, we need a DE. Because Kiwi is on the final year of his contract, and while I love Kiwi, he probably won't be worth an extension (not dominant enough of a pass rusher to extend and tie money into), which means we'll be down 2 DEs. And we all know our defense lives and dies with pressure up front. We need at least 3 dominant DEs in our rotation.

Not to mention the fact that Tuck's contract is coming up, so we need another DE just in case for that scenario as well.

You really can't look at it like that BBD, Barden doesn't play ST nor does Mario. If Mario is unable to go in one of those games, Barden is active and the 3rd receiver while Thomas and Jernigan continue on ST.


As far as the DE is concerned, I am fine with 3rd-4th round developmental guy, or 2nd round if someone with awesome tools is available (Carlos Dunlap).
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Ok guys I saw a mock on BleacherReport that has us passing on Kuechly and Burfict round one for Orson Charles while Fleener and Allen are still on the board. Then round 2 he has us taking a OT from FSU over Fleener again. I am now in the middle of an argument with Matt Miller(the guy who posted the mock) for having us pass on Kuechly and he is trying to say that we need to adress TE more. Please back me up and tell me I'm not insane and that we need a MIKE like Kuechly over Orson Charles in the first round.

EDIT: Here is the mock. My comment is a few posts down under the name Chris G. Am I wrong or should this guy not be getting paid to do this?
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Lol he has kuechly available at 32? Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about anyway..lol.
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Old 02-21-2012, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Lol he has kuechly available at 32? Obviously doesn't know what he's talking about anyway..lol.
That's exactly what I told him lol. He had Alshon going pick 7 to the Jags with Blackmon still on the board, Dont'a Hightower pick 15 to the Eagles, Stephon Gilmore in the top 25 and Miller going pick 13 to Seattle to split carries.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Default Wow he just trolled the internet

That mock is the worst Mock I have seen to date. The sadest part is that he probably did not even bother to share the cocaine with his editor.

So much suck there. His CB rankings were horrible, his TE rankings were horrible, his WR rankings were horrible. In no planet can I see Blackmon not being the first WR picked. The RB spots were also waaay to high. Seeing that many skill positions taken early, and seeing the position rankings turned on its head leads me to believe that he was just trying to get attention. He will probably make a crap load more mock from now until the draft, so he decided to throw one to get attention. That is the only logical explaination.

Why would you have Oson Charles so high? Yeah he has a celing, but don't you want to see production as well in the first round? D. Allen is a better athlete AND has been more productive. Not to mention his reason being beyond insane.

"The Giants do prefer blocking tight ends traditionally, but there's a time and reason for everything to change. As the athletic tight end phenomenon moves across the NFL, even the stodgy New York Giants will become enamored with a tight end who can stretch the field and spread apart the defense"

So he read minds or a member of the Giant's staff. "even the stodgy New York Giants will become enamored with a tight end who can stretch the field and spread apart the defense" Really? What are next week's Mega Million numbers? While we are at it.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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That's exactly what I told him lol. He had Miller going pick 13 to Seattle to split carries.
He could be had in the second. If they want him that bad, they could easily trade down and take him with their first and pick up picks in the process.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Jones says he's about 80% now and plans on being ready for training camp, which is awesome. I really wanna see what he can do
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