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Old 02-06-2012, 06:42 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Tom Haverford
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I heard on the radio and I totally agree.... Colin Cowherd said if you guys had a TE like a Jimmy Graham you'd be unstoppable. Scary thought.
We all would love a TE like that, but it just doesn't seem to be part of this system. The TE will never be a big part of this system, even though I'd kill to have a TE like that bc it would open up our WRs soooo much.

Gronk is actually a perfect TE for our system bc he's a 2 way guy, but there's only 1 Gronk in the league. Fleener seems to be the closest thing to that, but I need to scout him more.

I really liked the TE from BC, but he didn't declare.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:15 PM    (permalink
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I hope we can draft a TE. Are we content with Bear and Ballard. Ballard's knee I hope can heal and be fine. Beckum's injury is troublesome, and not sure if he will be ready now since the injury happened so late. I'd hope we can get a TE that can certainly help us and make us even better on offense!
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:16 PM    (permalink
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Shock of the century. NYG wants us to draft offense lol.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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Shock of the century. NYG wants us to draft offense lol.
Well I been saying it, and we have gone defense. When we did with Nicks I was very happy. Again, if the best player, like this past year with prince drops and we can't pass then defense is obviously fine.

However, we can get OL help which is key. At some point RB or TE would be nice to address as well.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Well I been saying it, and we have gone defense. When we did with Nicks I was very happy. Again, if the best player, like this past year with prince drops and we can't pass then defense is obviously fine.

However, we can get OL help which is key. At some point RB or TE would be nice to address as well.
This year, I actually agree with you. I want us to retool the offense with a lot of young talent.

However, I still feel that MIKE is our biggest need and if the right one is available in FA or in the 1st round of the draft, I think we have to pull the trigger.

But other than that, as long as we can re-sign our core guys defensively, I think this has to be a offense heavy draft.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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This year, I actually agree with you. I want us to retool the offense with a lot of young talent.

However, I still feel that MIKE is our biggest need and if the right one is available in FA or in the 1st round of the draft, I think we have to pull the trigger.

But other than that, as long as we can re-sign our core guys defensively, I think this has to be a offense heavy draft.
I just don't want us to be complacent. I don't want the mentality, hey it's ok everything is fine, Eli will make things better when in reality. We may lose MM, so we need another home run threat.

- TE is a big need who can create mismatches especially now that Beckum is hurt big time.

- RB is a need because not sure what's going to happen with Jacobs, Bradshaw is good but injury prone, and Ward is Mr. Concussion.

- Our OL is going to be HUGE issue. Our tackles and guard could use an upgrade. If we want balanced we can't be LAST yet again.

We have some things we def. need to upgrade. That's my side of the ball, and I want it upgraded. Maybe someone who can be that speedy kick returner. I doubt Hixon is coming back. Steve Smith can for cheap, and come in as a 3rd round guy. But I wouldn't replace him for MM, we still need a home run threat if MM goes.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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I just don't want us to be complacent. I don't want the mentality, hey it's ok everything is fine, Eli will make things better when in reality. We may lose MM, so we need another home run threat.

- TE is a big need who can create mismatches especially now that Beckum is hurt big time.

- RB is a need because not sure what's going to happen with Jacobs, Bradshaw is good but injury prone, and Ward is Mr. Concussion.

- Our OL is going to be HUGE issue. Our tackles and guard could use an upgrade. If we want balanced we can't be LAST yet again.

We have some things we def. need to upgrade. That's my side of the ball, and I want it upgraded. Maybe someone who can be that speedy kick returner. I doubt Hixon is coming back. Steve Smith can for cheap, and come in as a 3rd round guy. But I wouldn't replace him for MM, we still need a home run threat if MM goes.
Which is EXACTLY why we need a MIKE. We have absolutely no one at MIKE right now. Just bc we won a SB with Chase Blackburn at MIKE doesn't mean it can happen again.

I trust Eli to make the offense work no matter who is out there. But we absolutely cannot go into next year with just Chase Blackburn at MIKE. I love Chase, I want him back on the roster, but I don't want him starting next year. He's a great backup/STer who can step in at any moment. But we need a MIKE.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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And let's be real, Beckum is NOT a loss. He sucks. We wanted him cut. Losing him to an ACL isn't the end of the world. We can draft a guy in the 4th round as a replacement.

We need RBs, but RBs can be found anywhere anytime. We need a WR if Mario leaves, but with so many FA Wrs on the market, I'm hoping we can re-sign him for a reasonable contract.

So really, if we can't land that MIKE we need, we can go either Fleener in the 1st or best available olinemen early on. Bc we need oline help.

But MIKE is still our biggest need.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:08 PM    (permalink
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Which is EXACTLY why we need a MIKE. We have absolutely no one at MIKE right now. Just bc we won a SB with Chase Blackburn at MIKE doesn't mean it can happen again.

I trust Eli to make the offense work no matter who is out there. But we absolutely cannot go into next year with just Chase Blackburn at MIKE. I love Chase, I want him back on the roster, but I don't want him starting next year. He's a great backup/STer who can step in at any moment. But we need a MIKE.
We have Jones, Mark H and JG and Chase. Not sure if Chase is going to come back, but what we need is to develop our players. Now if there is a Mike we can get him later on in the draft. Eventually we need to develop our LBs. It would be nice to keep one system, and not change DCs, I believe that impacted us on that side of the ball.

I still don't like how we blow coverages, so I am not sure about Fewell. I think we got healthy and simplified things, but I am still unsure about him. I think specifically he relies on the 4 man rush WAY to much. If the rush doesn't get there we are toast! You can't keep expecting the rush to control the game each and every game. Tim Lewis did that and that didn't end well.

But it's hard for us to develop players with flux among our coaches on the defensive side of the ball. If a MIKE is there later on fine, I am down with drafting one, but let's develop the collection we have as well.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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And let's be real, Beckum is NOT a loss. He sucks. We wanted him cut. Losing him to an ACL isn't the end of the world. We can draft a guy in the 4th round as a replacement.

We need RBs, but RBs can be found anywhere anytime. We need a WR if Mario leaves, but with so many FA Wrs on the market, I'm hoping we can re-sign him for a reasonable contract.

So really, if we can't land that MIKE we need, we can go either Fleener in the 1st or best available olinemen early on. Bc we need oline help.

But MIKE is still our biggest need.
He does suck, but we were starting to use him in the post season. He was a tendency breaker used in the post season which did interest me if he can take that step. Now with an ACL screw that experiment, I don't want him or Hixon back. TT is a question mark as well messing up the same knee. So I am not keen on bringing back damaged goods.

I think OL is our biggest need. Our tackles, especially KM is a concern, and he is a free agent. Boothe def. can be upgraded, and I still want to see more of Baas. He needs to stay healthy for a season too! But we have a QB in his prime in a system where we have a lot of 5 and 7 step drops. So we need time for Eli to throw the ball.

Also, we want balanced so we need to be able to run the ball especially SHORT YARDAGE which has been a mess! OL to be is a huge need, especially if we don't want to be last in running the ball.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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We have Jones, Mark H and JG and Chase. Not sure if Chase is going to come back, but what we need is to develop our players. Now if there is a Mike we can get him later on in the draft. Eventually we need to develop our LBs. It would be nice to keep one system, and not change DCs, I believe that impacted us on that side of the ball.

I still don't like how we blow coverages, so I am not sure about Fewell. I think we got healthy and simplified things, but I am still unsure about him. I think specifically he relies on the 4 man rush WAY to much. If the rush doesn't get there we are toast! You can't keep expecting the rush to control the game each and every game. Tim Lewis did that and that didn't end well.

But it's hard for us to develop players with flux among our coaches on the defensive side of the ball. If a MIKE is there later on fine, I am down with drafting one, but let's develop the collection we have as well.
Those linebackers are the definition of mediocre. Jones will be cut next year, Herzlich will get 1 more year to get healthy, Chase is going to be our primary backup and Goff is a FA coming off an ACL.

None of those guys are starting caliber, and none of them ever will be. We need a MIKE. In a perfect world we sign Curtis Lofton and go offense the whole draft, but it's probably unrealistic.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Right now here a realistic draft for us that I would love:
1. Fleener
2. Adcock
3. Joe Adams
4. Kheeston Randall
5. Moe Petrus
6. Justin Francis
7. BPA

Sign Lofton, resign TT, Ballard, Blackburn, Tolly, Tryon, Weatherford, Thomas, and McKenzie
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:23 PM    (permalink
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Those linebackers are the definition of mediocre. Jones will be cut next year, Herzlich will get 1 more year to get healthy, Chase is going to be our primary backup and Goff is a FA coming off an ACL.

None of those guys are starting caliber, and none of them ever will be. We need a MIKE. In a perfect world we sign Curtis Lofton and go offense the whole draft, but it's probably unrealistic.
If that's the case and it unfolds like you say, then it becomes a priority. But let's see what happens. FA starts in March 13 I think, so let's see how it unfolds.

Honestly, we can have Willis or every All pro but this fool starts going with 3 man rushes and messed up communication or teachings in the secondary, we still will blow coverages. I think we have nearly every game, but somehow managed to win them all, which is great, but also alarming.

I am very interested in what we do with our free agents. What happens with osi and jacobs? That's important, and what if JPP wants his pay day? Do we rip up his contract and once again front load his pay day? Take the hit early, so as he gets older, it helps us out?
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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If that's the case and it unfolds like you say, then it becomes a priority. But let's see what happens. FA starts in March 13 I think, so let's see how it unfolds.

Honestly, we can have Willis or every All pro but this fool starts going with 3 man rushes and messed up communication or teachings in the secondary, we still will blow coverages. I think we have nearly every game, but somehow managed to win them all, which is great, but also alarming.

I am very interested in what we do with our free agents. What happens with osi and jacobs? That's important, and what if JPP wants his pay day? Do we rip up his contract and once again front load his pay day? Take the hit early, so as he gets older, it helps us out?
What do we have to wait and see for? Even if Jones is retained he wasn't good this season, Herzlich's the definition of massive question mark and Goff is coming off of an ACL tear that could easily limit his play immensely. Those guys just don't have the athleticism and fluidity to be much better than Chase, unless Herzlich gets back to where he was before the cancer. MIKE is a concern heading into this offseason.

As for RB is anyone else excited to see what Scott can do next year? If we can find a godo young bruiser in the draft I think our RBs would be pretty set with Bradshaw and Scott to go alongside a new big guy. Especially if Baas stays healthy, Petrus takes over at LG and we draft or sign a good OT.

That's why my realistic dream draft has us getting a first round OT, either one who falls to us or more exclusively RT guy like Glenn or Osemele. TE or DL in the second and third and then snag a big runner on day 3.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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I do think we need a TE, badly. It isn't necessary essential with Eli's progression, but it will open up a lot of space in the deep middle as well as the space underneath the safeties.

Kevin Boss had some speed and more importantly some height. He drew the safety which opened up space deep for our receivers. The TE is becoming prominent for a reason, it is hard to matchup to athletic tightends.

Instead of drafting Fleener, why not take a look at Finley? He will cost some money, but he is beginning to be severely undervalued. He is the proven commodity, a vet, and will only be 25 next season. His drops are concerning, but a lot of times, Rodgers is making catches tougher on him it seems, this was especially apparent in our game vs. the packers in the playoffs.

Another thing is, I am not so sure I would trade Osi, kindof on the fence. He overshot Brady a lot, but his first step is incredible and is definitely in the QB's head. On Tuck's sack on the Pat's final drive, Osi collapsed the pocket and pushed the OT in causing Brady to begin to move for a clean pocket, right into Tuck. Then again, Osi isn't going to be a full time player on our team and his contract is only one more year. He will be 31 next season as well.

Looking at potential trading partners:

St. Louis (2-14)
Indianapolis (2-14)
Minnesota (3-13)
Tampa Bay (4-12)
Cleveland (4-12)
Jacksonville (5-11)
Washington (5-11)
Carolina (6-10)
Buffalo (6-10)
Miami (6-10)
Seattle (7-9)
Kansas City (7-9)
Dallas (8-8)
Philadelphia (8-8)
New York Jets (8-8)
New England - from Oakland (8-8)
San Diego (8-8)
Chicago (8-8)
Philadelphia - from Arizona (8-8)
Tennessee (9-7)
Cincinnati* (9-7)
Detroit* (10-6)
Atlanta* (10-6)
Pittsburgh* (12-4)
Denver* (8-8)
Houston* (10-6)
New Orleans* (13-3)
Green Bay* (15-1)
Baltimore* (12-4)
San Francisco* (13-3)
New England* (13-3)
New York Giants*(9-7)

Of the Bolded, I think we eliminate all NFC teams. If Jason Taylor retires Miami could be a landing point, and also the Bills who have went from 3-4 to back to a 4-3 again, it was apparent they were in dire need of a passrusher. The Bills are the team i would try to trade to because Osi would probably have his best chance to start and make an impact on a team that should've made the playoffs.

I also don't think we keep Jacobs, I am not sure what happens but he has really shown his age and wear. I like him as a person outside of the game where he is entirely too confrontational.

McKenzie probably retires, great way to go out 2x Superbowl champ.

1. Lamar Miller RB Miami
2*. Vontaze Burfict LB Arizona St.
2(trade up using 3rd). Kelechi Osemele OT Iowa St.
4. Marcus Forston DT Miami U
4(comp). Coryell Judie CB Texas A&M
5. Donte Paige-Moss DE UNC
6. Stephen Hill WR Georgia Tech
6(comp). OL/DL
7. Dan Persa QB North Western

If you add Finley to that I think we're really in business.

QB-Eli, Carr, Persa
RB-Bradshaw, Miller, Ware, Scott
FB- Hynocerus
WR-Nicks, Cruz, Ham, Thomas, Barden, Jernigan, Hill
TE- Finley, Ballard, Pascoe

LT- Diehl, Beatty
LG- Boothe, Petrus
C- Baas,
RG- Snee
RT- Osmele, Brewer

DE-JPP, Paige-Moss,
DT- Canty, Bernard, Forston
DT- Joseph, Austin
DE-Tuck, Kiwi*, Tolly

LB-Kiwi*,Williams, Herzlich
LB- Blackburn, Burfit, Jones
LB-Boley, Williams, Paysinger

CB- Webster, Thomas, Tryon
S- KP, Rolle, Grant, Sash, Martin
CB- Amukamara, Bruce Johnson, Coryell Judie
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Considering I'd happily take either of those second round guys in the first, that's of course a great draft.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I don't want Finley. Too many drops. And too much money.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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I don't want Finley. Too many drops. And too much money.
I really don't think he'll demand that much money even though the TE position has revolutionized. He has that offense, Rodgers, and drops (that I feel are misleading because Rodgers made off throws) going against him.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I don't want Finley. Too many drops. And too much money.
Well money is key! However, I have faith in Coach Pope to work with JF if that's the case. If the money can work out, please by all means get him!
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:06 PM    (permalink
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Honestly if we resign Mario I have no problem with Ballard + rookie (Beckum on PUP) at TE. No need to spend big when they'll be the #4 receiving option.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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Honestly if we resign Mario I have no problem with Ballard + rookie (Beckum on PUP) at TE. No need to spend big when they'll be the #4 receiving option.
I see it like this:

Every one of our receivers has their own skillset which is important for certain situations. Nicks has his physicality, hands, and ability to beat man. Cruz has his quickness, run after catch, and can break zone or man. Mario has his ability to use space on the field to his advantage with his quickness and separation while the ball is in the air. None of them have height, and Finley has not only height but has very good speed and physicality as well as a bigger body.

The redzone is where our offense stalls, adding a TE who could be used as a joker and actually produce (Beckum didn't until late) would give us an elite redzone threat other than using a goalline fade or slant. We leave a lot of points on the field when we stall in the redzone.

Also when you look at our division, none of them have the safeties to cover a TE consistently. And when they start paying more attention to him, the deep middle of the field will open up, which are throws we weren't able to use as much. When you maximize what your offense can do, you have great success. We were able to do a lot with three very good receivers, but add an athletic TE and I think it pays dividends.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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We all would love a TE like that, but it just doesn't seem to be part of this system. The TE will never be a big part of this system, even though I'd kill to have a TE like that bc it would open up our WRs soooo much.

Gronk is actually a perfect TE for our system bc he's a 2 way guy, but there's only 1 Gronk in the league. Fleener seems to be the closest thing to that, but I need to scout him more.

I really liked the TE from BC, but he didn't declare.
But the fact that you drafted Beckum makes me think you had an interest in a TE that makes plays as a receiver. Shockey was exactly that.

I think it might be a misinterpretation on your part assuming that there is no role for a playmaking TE in your system. Just because they haven't found the solution, doesn't necessarily mean there are no plays in the system for a player like that. There is often give and take in finding players that fit your system and then fitting your system to the players you get. Or maybe it's simply that the team decided to use it's resources elsewhere to fill more immediate needs. With less holes to fill this offseason, maybe this is the year to fill luxury.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:42 PM    (permalink
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So Beckum has an ACL and Ballard has a PCl in one knee AND an ACL in the OTHER knee! So we have basically one function TE right now. We def. need to fill that in the passing game AND running game too.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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That sucks about Ballard, but I still wouldn't put that as a first round need.

If we do end up trading Osi for a 2nd rounder, I'd like to see some sort of combination LB, OL, DE in the first two rounds (preferably DE with #64), with TE and OL/LB/RB in the 3rd or 4th.

Sign a vet to compete with the rookie/fill in till Ballard and Beckum are healthy. I haven't even looked at the TE FA list yet.


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Old 02-07-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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No it's not a need, but if the grade is there, and this player is sitting as the highest or what not where he fits a need and value I'd draft him. We need this position in the passing game AND running game. So the value at that position increases because of the duel role.
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