The Official G-Men 2012 NFL Draft Thread - Page 9

D-Unit · 02-07-2012, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

No it's not a need, but if the grade is there, and this player is sitting as the highest or what not where he fits a need and value I'd draft him. We need this position in the passing game AND running game. So the value at that position increases because of the duel role.

I just hope you don't draft Dwayne Allen. That won't be fun seeing you guys have a TE like that.

bigbluedefense · 02-08-2012, 07:42 AM

Damn, I really wanted to avoid TE until round 3, but with both our TEs tearing their ACLs, we might have no choice but to reach for Fleener in round 1.

We'll see how this goes, but TE is definitely a need now. I know we can get away with a mid round guy, but when that guy is your first option, that's a big risk.

D-Unit · 02-09-2012, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Damn, I really wanted to avoid TE until round 3, but with both our TEs tearing their ACLs, we might have no choice but to reach for Fleener in round 1.

We'll see how this goes, but TE is definitely a need now. I know we can get away with a mid round guy, but when that guy is your first option, that's a big risk.

meh. Jason Garrett thought an UDFA in year 2 who didn't play a down in his rookie year could start at Center with a 7th round rookie Guard next to him. Worked like a charm! ^_^

I'm sure a mid round TE won't hurt too much.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-09-2012, 02:57 PM

I still don't think we need a TE early. We sign someone cheap and draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th and we'll be fine.

touchdownmaker · 02-10-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

I still don't think we need a TE early. We sign someone cheap and draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th and we'll be fine.

Could not agree more. I mean Jake Ballard was our starting TE who was undrafted in 2010. Bear Pascoe was decent too in our system, yes Bear Pascoe him and his 6 flat 40(just a joke, but he is pretty slow). Travis Beckham after three years finally made good on his 3rd round draft position. I think we could be ok with a FA and a 3rd rounder. A TE is very valuable, but far from an impact position in our system.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:05 PM

Here's the problem guys, Ballard didn't thrive for us until his 2nd year with the team. Ditto for Bear. We don't need to discuss how complicated the offense is, we all know that already.

So when you get a middle round guy in his rookie year as your primary starter, you're really rolling the dice. Don't forget, even Boss in his rookie year didn't see the field until the playoffs basically. So he had a whole season to sit and learn the offense.

This rookie is going to step into the starting lineup from week 1. That's scary.

So you can chance it, but you're rolling the dice. A guy like a Fleener gives you more assurance that you'll probably get a better chance of immediate impact bc he's a higher quality player.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-10-2012, 01:08 PM

That's why I'm all for re-signing Shaincoe plus drafting someone. He already has a familiarity with the offense and is also a great blocker. He's not a huge name TE but in our offense he'd be a great fit. It makes to much sense to me.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:10 PM

Having that said, I still want a LB in round 1.

I've been looking at Vontaze Burfict, and maaaaan, he looks like the real deal. He's got size, speed, great instincts, he's got a mean streak that I want in a linebacker, he'll give us everything we need.

Only 2 things worry me:

1. He needs to wrap up more. Too many times he goes for the hit instead of wrapping up.

2. He's gotta learn how to contain some of that aggression.

If he can do those 2 things, he'll be a great pro. I'd take the chance on this guy with the 32nd pick. Also I hope we do a lot of hw on his character. That's something us armchair scouts are unable to do. He needs to pass the character test.

Also, FA is shaping up to our benefit. It's a deep WR class which should hopefully make Mario more affordable, plus give us options in case Mario leaves, plus now the CB market got deeper with Routt, which would make Thomas more affordable as well.

It's a deep CB market, Routt just made it deeper. I'll be surprised at this point if the Giants don't retain Thomas.

I wouldn't mind keeping Ross for the right price too. Let's be fair to the guy, he had a great season. He was always so much better as an outside CB who defended the opposition's #2. He looked like a stud his rookie year when we put him in that role, and he looked great this year in the same role.

He's not a slot CB. He can't play nickel. He doesn't have the hips for it. That's why he was looking poor the 2 years before this one. That and injuries hurt him.

But as an outside CB, I think Ross is very serviceable. For the right price, I would love to keep him. You can never have too much CB depth.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

That's why I'm all for re-signing Shaincoe plus drafting someone. He already has a familiarity with the offense and is also a great blocker. He's not a huge name TE but in our offense he'd be a great fit. It makes to much sense to me.

The price has to be right. Can't overpay for him. But yeah, I'm down with that plan. And since he's old, you don't have to give him a long contract.

Which still gives us the leverage to go out and get a real TE in the draft in the coming years if we want to. I like the idea a lot.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-10-2012, 01:17 PM

Draft wise it all depends on what we do in FA. I can see us drafting pretty much any position besides a QB.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:19 PM

Unless we land Curtis Lofton in FA, I want us to draft a LB in round 1.

If Luke and Burfict are both gone, then maybe we take a hard look at Brown. I have to scout Brown some. His measurables intrigue me.

I love Jacquan Williams, but it couldn't hurt getting another speed OLB if the right one is available for us.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-10-2012, 01:26 PM

I still don't think LB is a pressing need even though I wouldn't care if we went that way in the 1st. I just like taking the most talented player at pick 32. If Osi leaves and we don't sign Mario Williams then DE might be an option also if we have a high grade on someone.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:29 PM

Yeah I'm all for BPA as well, but I'm telling you, if we don't address LB in some sort of way this offseason, we're going to have the SAME exact anger rants next year about our defense.

We need a MIKE who can defend the deep middle. We just do. It's been a problem for 4 years now. It won't just magically disappear on it's own.

If we get that MIKE we've been looking for for the past 4 years, this defense can reach the next level. It will be a complete defense. We need that missing piece bad.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-10-2012, 01:47 PM

I agree we do need that but I'm not sure Burfict is even that guy. He seems like he'd be a monster in the run game but might be more of a liability covering. Boley and Williams did an excellent job the last 10 games of shutting down TE's. The Davis TD's were on the secondary both times and besides that not much else was accomplished versus us.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 01:50 PM

I'm not concerned so much about our nickel defense. But our ability to defend the middle of the field on 1st and 2nd down is a problem. A problem the Saints have routinely exposed for 4 years now.

Just go back and watch the last 3 times we've played the Saints. See how they attacked us. We have to defend that.

Burfict has shown me he has the speed and the hips to cover. He's an athlete, he can cover. He's known more for his blitzing and his ability to clean up the run game, but the guy is more than enough in coverage. He's no worse than Luke, and we all know I love me some Luke Keuchly.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-10-2012, 02:30 PM

Didn't Burfict really dissapear on the field this year also? I don't know he just doesn't seem like a Giants player to me with his attitude problems. You know the kind of players that Reese/Ross like to take.

bigbluedefense · 02-10-2012, 02:32 PM

Yeah I'm still in the process of scouting these guys. My opinion can change. I haven't paid any attention to his character issues yet, so I'm unaware of them.

I think I'll get a better idea of who I like when the combine is over. But so far, just from peaking, I like Burfict's potential.

touchdownmaker · 02-10-2012, 03:45 PM

-Vishanthe Schiancoe
-Bo Scaife (my fantasy football nightmares)
-Randy McMichael
-Mike Leach

If you must have a pass first TE how about these:
-Mercedes Lewis (he is actually too good to be on this list)
-John Carlson
-Greg Olsen
-Chase Coffman

touchdownmaker · 02-10-2012, 03:56 PM

By the way..
Zach Brown would take care of any RB/TE match-up problems. The only thing is that that would give us three Wills. With that small of a LB core, you would have to subs situationally more than you would like. We have thumpers (Jones and Herzlich) but they can't stay on the field on passing downs.The DTs would really have to play well too. Our pass coverage would be real strong though with three Wills, and with a full line-up in the third level would allow Antrelle to roam around and ball hawk more. In a passing NFL it might be a good move. Hell, Brown might be able to play the Mike too. Derrick Brooks 6,0 235 lbs and a Hall of Fame Cover 2 Mike. Zach Brown 6,2 230 lbs, we run a variation of the Cover 2.

scottyboy · 02-11-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Here's the problem guys, Ballard didn't thrive for us until his 2nd year with the team. Ditto for Bear. We don't need to discuss how complicated the offense is, we all know that already.

So when you get a middle round guy in his rookie year as your primary starter, you're really rolling the dice. Don't forget, even Boss in his rookie year didn't see the field until the playoffs basically. So he had a whole season to sit and learn the offense.

This rookie is going to step into the starting lineup from week 1. That's scary.

So you can chance it, but you're rolling the dice. A guy like a Fleener gives you more assurance that you'll probably get a better chance of immediate impact bc he's a higher quality player.

but with Ballard remember, we didn't have an off-season. So at least a rookie or new guy will have an offseason to work with eli...but it's also going to be:
1) Block
2) run over the middle and Eli will throw it up there for you to get (we all love Eli but he's got a tendency to leave his TE's to dry sometimes)
3) Run in the flats to pick up that 3rd and 3.
4) block

so while a weapon would be AWESOME and I wanna bring someone in, it's not too pressing.

again, we have needs, but none, I feel, are GLARING must fill needs. We can make obvious upgrades, but aren't really forced to grab a certain position at a certain time/price tag

OSUGiants17 · 02-11-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I wouldn't mind keeping Ross for the right price too. Let's be fair to the guy, he had a great season. He was always so much better as an outside CB who defended the opposition's #2. He looked like a stud his rookie year when we put him in that role, and he looked great this year in the same role.

He's not a slot CB. He can't play nickel. He doesn't have the hips for it. That's why he was looking poor the 2 years before this one. That and injuries hurt him.

But as an outside CB, I think Ross is very serviceable. For the right price, I would love to keep him. You can never have too much CB depth.

If we can sign Ross to a cheap 1 year deal I'm all for it. I don't trust a young Prince or recovering Thomas opposite Webster.

OSUGiants17 · 02-11-2012, 11:17 AM

The more I think about it, **** TE, we can get this guy next year:

I know scotty will aprove

or this guy:

<===3 · 02-11-2012, 12:26 PM

Linebacker? Really? The Giants play the big nickel a ton. That means 3 safeties and 2 linebackers. The Giants had 3 safeties on the field in all but one defensive snap in the Superbowl. Jacquian Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka stood around on the sideline for most of the game. Michael Boley is a three down linebacker and will be one of the two linebackers in the big nickel. You're telling me that between Jacquian Williams, Chase Blackburn, Mathias Kiwanuka and Jonathon Goff, we can't find the second one and have to draft one in the first round? I think we're fine at linebacker.

OL, TE, RB, S, CB are all bigger needs IMO. But what do I know? I like to hump trees.

OSUGiants17 · 02-11-2012, 12:40 PM

We used that package because we don't have a suitable MIKE.

<===3 · 02-11-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUGiants17

We used that package because we don't have a suitable MIKE.

That doesn't make sense. Chase Blackburn is a MLB, and he saw a ton of playing time. The 3rd safety replaced an OLB.

This is a defense Fewell likes to run. He ran it with the Bills too. I honestly think the Giants should be more concerned with Grant slowing down, and who could possibly replace him. I don't think Sash can.