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Old 08-17-2011, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by etk View Post
. If you're worried about competition levels and "cheating to win" look at the SEC, Oregon, FSU and Clemson (among others). Those are the schools that are knee-deep in duffel bags of cash.
What have we done lately? Enlighten me.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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What have we done lately? Enlighten me.
stop acting like your **** don't stink because you haven't been caught. fsu (and florida for that matter so you know i'm not being a homer) is waist deep in this ****. maybe not to the point of miami, but in modern cfb, you don't win a bcs title without breaking the rules. it's like steroids - take the risk and reap the benefits or do it the right way and risk falling behind
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Old 08-17-2011, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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What have we done lately? Enlighten me.
You seriously can't be that naive, can you?

If we are to believe that Florida State is clean as a whistle -- like you would have us -- then care to explain the Seminoles' explosion of star-studded classes lately? Is it simply because all these kids want to be a part of a resurgent program with fresh blood at the helm? Because a lot of the other top-tier programs look more enticing from a recruit's perspective. Plenty of schools appear ready to pay for a player's services. Even Miami, an in-state rival and recruiting competitor, looks better to me if I'm eighteen and a potential recruit. You're telling me that I can party in multi-million dollar mansions, take yachts out for joyrides whenever I feel like it, frequent fancy nightclubs, get special treatment at strip joints, indulge in all the prostitutes my teenage heart desires, and receive other big-ticket items like cars or jewelry or televisions as long as I ask nicely? Okay. Where do I sign my letter of intent?

Please. The vast majority of kids don't pick schools on the merits of their academic credentials or program tradition or their status as a title contender. They pick them based on the services the school can offer.

Some are worse than others, but every major college football program is dirty. You don't get to be a national powerhouse by playing by the rules nowadays. The U. Ohio State. USC. Oregon. Auburn. North Carolina. LSU. Alabama. Florida. Florida State. Clemson. Oklahoma. Texas. The list could go on and on and on. The bottom-line is that big-time glamour athletics (basketball and football) are full of these kinds of illicit improprieties. Anyone who still believes their school is clean is either willfully ignorant to the ugly realities of college football or an insufferable homer. You can take your pick.
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Old 08-17-2011, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Please. The vast majority of kids don't pick schools on the merits of their academic credentials or program tradition or their status as a title contender. They pick them based on the services the school can offer.

Some are worse than others, but every major college football program is dirty. You don't get to be a national powerhouse by playing by the rules nowadays. The U. Ohio State. USC. Oregon. Auburn. North Carolina. LSU. Alabama. Florida. Florida State. Clemson. Oklahoma. Texas. The list could go on and on and on.
1) If by "kids" you mean 4 and 5 star recruits, then sure.

2) With that said, no, I think your list basically stops there. You could add a few more SEC teams (Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee). I don't think schools like Minnesota, Syracuse, and Wisconsin are buying prostitutes for their kids.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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1) If by "kids" you mean 4 and 5 star recruits, then sure.
Which I do. That statement was made in reference to Florida State's recent success on the recruiting trail and the kind of dubious wooing that blue-chippers experience on campus visits. Two and three-star prospects aren't generally prized commodities at the money-making programs, so they're not exposed to that kind of activity.

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2) With that said, no, I think your list basically stops there. You could add a few more SEC teams (Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee). I don't think schools like Minnesota, Syracuse, and Wisconsin are buying prostitutes for their kids.
I also wouldn't consider schools like Minnesota and Syracuse national powerhouses in football.

Also, Georgia, Arkansas, Michigan, Penn State, Nebraska, Texas A&M, Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, and Notre Dame could also be added. "On and on and on" might have been hyperbole, but that's another dozen schools right there.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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I guess it depends on what you mean by dirty. Are players getting free gifts and **** at schools like Georgia and Nebraska? Probably. But I think if Miami isn't alone in the degree of their rule-breaking, the number of other programs with this extent of corruption are very limited. This type of corruption is off the charts.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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You forgot Ohio State and UNC.

Also, I don't think Vanderbilt is cheating to win and last I checked LSU has ran a relatively clean program since Les Miles arrived. Any infraction has been swiftly dealt with by the athletic department and coaching staff.

Do I think they help out the student athletes by giving them more than they need? Absolutely and I would say every single college football program in a BCS conference does the same. Hell, probably even further than a BCS conference. Southeastern La Univ, my alma-mater, gave away vehicles to highly recruited players that chose to play for them.

They want to make it seem like the SEC is worse because the SEC being so good still bothers them.

Giving players benefits is so far from cheating that I can't believe fans are taking some sort of moral stance on this.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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They want to make it seem like the SEC is worse because the SEC being so good still bothers them.

Giving players benefits is so far from cheating that I can't believe fans are taking some sort of moral stance on this.
It's against the rules. If you break the rules, you're cheating.

Also, the reason people blame the SEC moreso may be in part due to jealousy, but I think it has more to do with the issues related to oversigning and the fact that the SEC seems to have no standards whatsoever when it comes to admitting players.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Breaking a rule=/= cheating.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Check it out.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Maybe Shapiro didn't buy recruits straight up but you can't tell me that this isn't a form of persuading reruits:

Not trying to hate on you but don't act like all he was doing was picking up a bar tab at a bowling alley every now and then.
Those things were for current players, not recruits (for the most part). There were a few mentions of recruits in the report (Dye, Armstrong, Vernon, Brown brothers), but for the most part, Shapiro was spending money on current players so they'd be friends with him.

And Diab LSU has been clean in the sense that they haven't gotten in trouble, but they pay for players, just like everyone else.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Those things were for current players, not recruits (for the most part). There were a few mentions of recruits in the report (Dye, Armstrong, Vernon, Brown brothers), but for the most part, Shapiro was spending money on current players so they'd be friends with him.

And Diab LSU has been clean in the sense that they haven't gotten in trouble, but they pay for players, just like everyone else.
They pay for their tuition, yes, and their room and board. LSU is squeaky clean. Like a newborn's buttocks. And it's a beautiful program just like a newborn's buttocks are.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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They pay for their tuition, yes, and their room and board. LSU is squeaky clean. Like a newborn's buttocks. And it's a beautiful program just like a newborn's buttocks are.
Arizona's first round pick disagrees with that statement.

Either way, it's horrible and devastating news. The biggest problem with the whole thing to me is that assistant coaches were supposedly bringing these kids to this goon's house... did they knowingly break the rules or just not know about them? Regardless, that is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back if UM does indeed get a swift backhand from the NCAA.

It sounds like after Coker left, the improper benefits definitely slowed down but obviously they did not stop.. if the president of the university is taking checks from this guy, how are 18-21 year old kids (most from inner city Miami who grew up in near poverty) supposed to say no? There is blame here to fall on everyone but the fact that the administration and/or staff let this go on for so long is just incomprehensibly stupid to me.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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Check it out.
You need to go easy on him, bear. They don't take English until the 17th grade in Louisiana. I kid, I kid.

And yes, giving kids money, tats, services, prostitutes, drugs, alcohol, etc... is cheating.

This stuff isn't going to stop until the presidents, ADs, and coaches feel some real pain.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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I guess it depends on what you mean by dirty. Are players getting free gifts and **** at schools like Georgia and Nebraska? Probably. But I think if Miami isn't alone in the degree of their rule-breaking, the number of other programs with this extent of corruption are very limited. This type of corruption is off the charts.
Agreed wholeheartedly. The type of corruption that has surfaced at Miami is absolutely off the charts. I would be genuinely surprised if more than a few schools had boosters this entrenched in improprieties, considering Shapiro provided such an extraordinarily lavish lifestyle for players at The U. Programs like Georgia and Nebraska are bit players in comparison. You can't exactly entice players in Athens or Lincoln with luxurious trips aboard yachts or show them VIP treatment in one of the hottest cities for nightlife in the world. That said, I still believe plenty of illicit things happen at programs like Georgia and Nebraska, just not to such a grossly extravagant degree.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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They pay for their tuition, yes, and their room and board. LSU is squeaky clean. Like a newborn's buttocks. And it's a beautiful program just like a newborn's buttocks are.
I would be willing to bet that LSU is just as guilty as other powerhouse programs are. The Patrick Peterson pay-for-play scandal is still very much in the rear-view mirror. And, if the Yahoo! investigative team keeps digging and targeting dirty institutions, they'll certainly uncover more and more of them with time.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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The ironic thing is that Shapiro is doing this as payback because none of these players showed him any gratitude in return when he actually needed a friend. He found out that the players he paid to be his friends were truly just gold digging whores, not one of which were smart enough to do him a solid which may have kept his mouth shut. No honour among thieves goes both ways for everyone calling this guy a snitch. DaU's selfish brats brought this weasel's wrath upon themselves' and their program.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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The ironic thing is that Shapiro is doing this as payback because none of these players showed him any gratitude in return when he actually needed a friend. He found out that the players he paid to be his friends were truly just gold digging whores, not one of which were smart enough to do him a solid which may have kept his mouth shut. No honour among thieves goes both ways for everyone calling this guy a snitch. DaU's selfish brats brought this weasel's wrath upon themselves' and their program.
You ain't saying that they's a gold digga but they ain't messing with no broke, broke..
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I would be willing to bet that LSU is just as guilty as other powerhouse programs are. The Patrick Peterson pay-for-play scandal is still very much in the rear-view mirror. And, if the Yahoo! investigative team keeps digging and targeting dirty institutions, they'll certainly uncover more and more of them with time.
Oh no doubt. I even made that same comment previously in the thread. Every institution will have dirt on them for something or another but it's how deep the dirt goes that is the biggest shocker at Miami right now. This is quite possibly the biggest scandal in college football history.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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Arizona's first round pick disagrees with that statement.

Either way, it's horrible and devastating news. The biggest problem with the whole thing to me is that assistant coaches were supposedly bringing these kids to this goon's house... did they knowingly break the rules or just not know about them? Regardless, that is going to be the straw that breaks the camel's back if UM does indeed get a swift backhand from the NCAA.

It sounds like after Coker left, the improper benefits definitely slowed down but obviously they did not stop.. if the president of the university is taking checks from this guy, how are 18-21 year old kids (most from inner city Miami who grew up in near poverty) supposed to say no? There is blame here to fall on everyone but the fact that the administration and/or staff let this go on for so long is just incomprehensibly stupid to me.
That's probably the main thing I'm having trouble believing right now. Jeff Stoutland took Matt Patchan and his family (including his dad and freaking played here) to this scumbag's house? Under Randy Shannon's nose when he said anyone associating with him would be fired (likely one of the dozen reasons Clint Hurtt was allowed to "find another job")? Seriously? Every single detail of that situation is hard to believe. If Stoutland is a dirty coach there isn't a single person in college football I'll believe to be clean.
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Oh good, I was hoping that someone would ask Michael Irvin what he thinks. Obviously, what this situation needs now is the opinion of an insane cokehead.
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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ESPN asked T. Boone Pickens what his opinion is on college football realignment. ESPN really has the most relevant guests and asks the hard-hitting questions.
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Old 08-17-2011, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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what percentage would you put on miami getting "the death penalty?"
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:10 PM    (permalink
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Robert Marve and Orson Charles have been cleared by the NCAA.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Bryce and Arthur Brown cleared as well. Lot of accusations about current players are getting torn apart atm. Former player who is in the NFL said Shapiro tried to extort him after being arrested. Also reiterated how clear Shannon made it to stay away from Shapiro.

Jeff Godfrey cleared too.
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