New and Improved Free Agency Discussion and News Mega-Thread

[fenikz]

and you always have to take into account the fact that Fitz will just flat out give up money if it's to resign someone(took a 8 mil pay cut to bring back Warner)

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Complex

There is only 2 running backs worth that much Chris Johnson and Peterson.

I would never give Johnson that much I'm sorry. All day is the only back worth that kind of money. And yes Fitzy is worth what he got but it was given to him by the wrong team.

[khorn]

Jamaal Charles is the second best RB in the NFL, and he's worth Deangelo money.

[Raiderz4Life]

Originally Posted by khorn

Jamaal Charles is the second best RB in the NFL, and he's worth Deangelo money.

Absolutely not. *cough*homer*cough*

[yo123]

Originally Posted by khorn

Jamaal Charles is the second best RB in the NFL, and he's worth Deangelo money.

Until he proves can handle a full workload no he is not the second best RB in the NFL.

[khorn]

Originally Posted by yo123

Until he proves can handle a full workload no he is not the second best RB in the NFL.

lol. Why does he need to handle a "workload" when he produces better than just about every other rb in the league with a lesser amount of work? That's dumb.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by khorn

lol. Why does he need to handle a "workload" when he produces better than just about every other rb in the league with a lesser amount of work? That's dumb.

Because there is value in a RB that you can give the ball to 20 times a game, take short yardage and goal line carries. Does that really need to be explained? Having to have a quality second running back because of injury risks/wearing down to a guy who can't take a beating is not a good thing for a RB.

And he's done it for one year.

[khorn]

Originally Posted by yo123

Because there is value in a RB that you can give the ball to 20 times a game, take short yardage and goal line carries. Does that really need to be explained? Having to have a quality second running back because of injury risks/wearing down to a guy who can't take a beating is not a good thing for a RB.

And he's done it for one year.

What needs to be explained is the stupid idea that a running back needs to prove that he can get battered around. What purpose does that serve? Is he not producing? He does what you want and need out of an offensive threat, and that's house it when there's an open hole, gash the defense for huge chunks of yards and is one of the best, if not the best pass catching/yac RBs in the NFL.

Besides, giving someone the ball that many times has proven time and time again to deteriorate their abilities. In his first year as a starter he rushed for better yardage than 75% of Adrian Peterson's seasons. On 230 carries.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by khorn

What needs to be explained is the stupid idea that a running back needs to prove that he can get battered around. What purpose does that serve? Is he not producing? He does what you want and need out of an offensive threat, and that's house it when there's an open hole, gash the defense for huge chunks of yards and is one of the best, if not the best pass catching/yac RBs in the NFL.

Besides, giving someone the ball that many times has proven time and time again to deteriorate their abilities. In his first year as a starter he rushed for better yardage than 75% of Adrian Peterson's seasons. On 230 carries.

I gave reasons in my previous post, but you chose to ignore them and repeat the same thing you said before in more words.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by yo123

Because there is value in a RB that you can give the ball to 20 times a game, take short yardage and goal line carries. Does that really need to be explained? Having to have a quality second running back because of injury risks/wearing down to a guy who can't take a beating is not a good thing for a RB.

And he's done it for one year.

Meh, ideally I think every team would like to have 2 RB's who can carry the load. There is no point in running one into the ground and risking injury to a guy who might save a little wear and tear by platooning somebody with him. The Vikings had that idea in mind when they drafted Gebhart. Getting 25 carries a game doesn't necessarily make someone more valuable than somebody who gets 15. The fact of the matter is that Jamaal Charles puts out elite production every time he touches the ball. So does it really matter if a capable RB like Thomas Jones gets carries in certain situations if it means preserving the usefulness of a capable runner who can get you 6.4ypc and 10 yards per reception? That way when you really need Charles he is there for you.

I'd give Charles the type of money Williams got in a heartbeat.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Meh, ideally I think every team would like to have 2 RB's who can carry the load. There is no point in running one into the ground and risking injury to a guy who might save a little wear and tear by platooning somebody with him. The Vikings had that idea in mind when they drafted Gebhart. Getting 25 carries a game doesn't necessarily make someone more valuable than somebody who gets 15. The fact of the matter is that Jamaal Charles puts out elite production every time he touches the ball. So does it really matter if a capable RB like Thomas Jones gets carries in certain situations if it means preserving the usefulness of a capable runner who can get you 6.4ypc and 10 yards per reception? That way when you really need Charles he is there for you.

I'd give Charles the type of money Williams got in a heartbeat.

To be fair, it's easier to average 6.4 YPC when you're fresh and not taking too many hits. There's a reason guys like Darren Sproles average 5 YPC.

And I would absolutely give him DeAngelo's contract, Charles is fantastic. I just think he's more top 5 than top 2.

[RaiderNation]

Rumor is the Raiders will bring in a big name through trade soon. We will see how legit these sources are though

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by yo123

Because there is value in a RB that you can give the ball to 20 times a game, take short yardage and goal line carries. Does that really need to be explained? Having to have a quality second running back because of injury risks/wearing down to a guy who can't take a beating is not a good thing for a RB.

And he's done it for one year.

Additionally your argument is hurt by looking at Peterson's shortcomings as well. Is he any less valuable because he fumbles the football, can't catch out of the backfield, or isn't elite in pass protection? The fact of the matter is that he is pretty damn valuable in the role he is in and Jamaal Charles is the same way.

He also has 2 1100+yd. seasons, and has pretty much been dominant since he has been used in a featured roll, so I don't really get how you can say he has only done it for one year.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Additionally your argument is hurt by looking at Peterson's shortcomings as well. Is he any less valuable because he fumbles the football, can't catch out of the backfield, or isn't elite in pass protection? The fact of the matter is that he is pretty damn valuable in the role he is in and Jamaal Charles is the same way.

He also has 2 1100+yd. seasons, and has pretty much been dominant since he has been used in a featured roll, so I don't really get how you can say he has only done it for one year.

Peterson only fumbled once last year, he's past that problem. He's also a better receiver than given credit for, for some reason people think he's Michael Turner catching out of the backfield which just isn't true. He'll catch a lot of balls in Musgrave's offense. Pass blocking you're right he's not very good.

And I was saying Charles has only been elite for one year. CJ took a big step back after his breakout 2,000 yard season too and they're similar runners.

[bucfan12]

Charles is knocking on the door. He still needs to have a backup, but honestly, I'd take Charles over CJ2k anyday, because his attitude is about winning, not whining.

Johnson is crazy if he thinks he's worth that type of money. Remember, the Titans don't really have a passing game and Johnson doesn't have a physical back behind him. I liked him better when they had a dash and bash type offense with White and Johnson. Sure Johnson exploded in year 2, but he wasn't as good as he thought he was in year 3. If he plays, I see 1100-1200 + yds possibly, but he's nowhere near the back Adrian Peterson is.

With Peterson, teams used to stack the box with 8 guys and still couldn't contain him. Holding him to 90 yards a game was containing him, basically because he's too strong and too fast.

[TitanHope]

Wait, are ya'll holding the fact that Chris Johnson had such a significant difference between his 2nd and 3rd seasons as a negative towards him?

CJ had a good year last year. The difference between the two seasons shows how amazing he was in year two rather than how much of a step he took back in year three. CJ was 4th in the NFL in rushing yards last year. He led the league with 2,006 yards in his 2nd year, and was 4th with 1,364 yards his third year. The fact that he had that significant of difference in production and still was #4 in rushing, including outproducing Adrian Peterson, is remarkable, and it is insurmountably moronic to hold it against him after he broke records in that second season. There was only one way to go but down after it, and he'll probably never come close to that mark again. In fact, it's a safe bet that none of the RB's listed so far will come even close to how good CJ was in 2009.

I'll stand by that there are two special RB's in the NFL: Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson. There are some other very good ones, and a few guys look like they could join 'em after last season, but demonstrably speaking and factoring in that a multiyear consistency is valued with how flukey RB production can be, over the past three years these are the big two. I'm fine with people taking one over the other. But keep in mind that while AD can run a guy over, it hasn't helped him to outperform CJ. In their first three seasons, CJ beats him in every category save TD's, and AD has never started all 16 games in a season. I've said this in another thread and I'll bring it up again: "AD is awesome. Like, really awesome. But demonstrably, no. Considering that in their first 3 seasons, CJ has more rushing yards, higher YPC, more receptions, more reception yards, more reception TD's, and alarmingly fewer fumbles. And he also has that whole being one of only 6 RB's in the history of the NFL to have a 2,000 yard season and holds the record for most yards from scrimmage in a season." But for someone like bucfan12 to say CJ is nowhere near the back that Peterson is? You have the right to your opinion. I'll put myself out there and say the guy who has broken NFL records, has been just as dominant on film, and has demonstrably outproduced every other back in the NFL in rushing the ball since he entered the league is right there with him.

And no, I don't think CJ deserves close to what Fitz got. Hell, I don't think Fitz was worth what he got. Yeah, he's a class act, and it's nice to see a good guy come out on top. But it's 8/$120 million/$50 million guaranteed for a guy who last year touched the ball 5.6 times a game last year. Last year, CJ touched the ball 22.5 times a game. Before the Fitz deal, I thought CJ was worthy of being paid as the highest non-QB and non-LT offensive player. Without question, worthy of being paid as the top RB. Sign him to a 5 year deal that runs out when he's entering his 30's. But the dude absolutely deserves to make bank, and the Titans promised him as much last year when they compromised on a short term solution.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I would never give Johnson that much I'm sorry. All day is the only back worth that kind of money. And yes Fitzy is worth what he got but it was given to him by the wrong team.

What makes AD better than CJ? besides the fact that AD runs with more power.

[scottyboy]

Just gonna leave this here...

[RaiderNation]

Rumor is Carl Nicks could be on the block, and the Raiders and Ravens are interested. Sources say the Saints don't want to pay big money for 2 guards when they can lock up other positions.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

Rumor is Carl Nicks could be on the block, and the Raiders and Ravens are interested. Sources say the Saints don't want to pay big money for 2 guards when they can lock up other positions.

Have the Ravens locked up Ben Grubbs?

[niel89]

Grubbs is a FA in 2012.

[bam bam]

Originally Posted by Complex

What makes AD better than CJ? besides the fact that AD runs with more power.

his teeth are way better.

[Complex]

Originally Posted by bam bam

his teeth are way better.

Once he gets paid hopefully he upgrades his gold teeth and also adds diamonds.

[Unbiased]

Originally Posted by RaiderNation

Rumor is Carl Nicks could be on the block, and the Raiders and Ravens are interested. Sources say the Saints don't want to pay big money for 2 guards when they can lock up other positions.

Maybe it's just me but I would lock up QB, OL, and DL before any other positions. If they need to let Nicks go to extend Brees, then I get it, but otherwise just lock up both of your great guards.

[RaiderNation]

Looks like the Jets are in play too. A deal could be done with in the next 24 hours