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Old 03-20-2012, 10:54 AM    (permalink
Lil Quip
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'm looking at the finances of the move.

Vinny Curry will be a 2nd round draft pick that will get you 7 sacks a season (maybe more, maybe less) for about 500k a season.

Wimbley is 7 mill a season. That's a lot more coin for the same production.

To be fair, I'm the type that thinks 99% of RBs don't deserve extensions beyond their rookie deals. I want as little $$ tied to the RB position as possible. If I can have 3 RBs on the roster each making 400K a season, I'm fine with that.

You gotta be cheap about budgeting the cap. You can't pay for mediocre players. It gets you in cap hell.
The logic behind this is sound, but your examples are a bit far fetched.

I like Vinny as a prospect but you are assuming a lot with his production. I think with that production he starts sneaking into the first.

As with RB's your thinking is in line with the NFL in general. Unless you have a Ray Rice or healthy AP, teams are not investing a lot of money into RB's. Having a platoon of three good backs on rookie deals is optimal, more realistically most teams are going to try to spend around 8 mil of the salary cap on RB's. It will be interesting to see what BGE gets for a salary. If I where him, I would find a good team offering $3 mil a year and run with it.

In the general NFL scheme, some positions are just going to be pricey. Some teams have the inherent advantage of getting good value at these positions through rookie contracts etc, allowing them to pay more money out elsewhere. As an example, Pittsburgh has had continued success from their linebacker centric defense. Yet inherent in that success is that they usually had a steady stream of linebacking talent that they could let the more expensive older guys walk and let the new guy walk. Yet without that talent to come in to replace them, they have to invest a lot of money there, hamstringing them elsewhere. Now they are paying Harrison Woodley and Timmons big deals, which really hurts them in resigning Wallace, who due to the NFL, is going to get big money somewhere. In the past they would have let Harrison walk and just pay Woodley and Timmons.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Lil Quip View Post
In the general NFL scheme, some positions are just going to be pricey. Some teams have the inherent advantage of getting good value at these positions through rookie contracts etc, allowing them to pay more money out elsewhere. As an example, Pittsburgh has had continued success from their linebacker centric defense. Yet inherent in that success is that they usually had a steady stream of linebacking talent that they could let the more expensive older guys walk and let the new guy walk. Yet without that talent to come in to replace them, they have to invest a lot of money there, hamstringing them elsewhere. Now they are paying Harrison Woodley and Timmons big deals, which really hurts them in resigning Wallace, who due to the NFL, is going to get big money somewhere. In the past they would have let Harrison walk and just pay Woodley and Timmons.
When harrison got his deal he was replacing porter who fell into the category of guys that had some left in the tank but were expendable. Harrison was like 29 when he had his first starting season and he was a beast against the run and damn near averages a sack a game..paying him was wise because he was a young 29 in that he hasnt played much and he could play all 4 LB spots. Timmons was drafted to replace porter, but struggled on the outside, gained some pounds and moved to the middle after they realized how good harrison was. We wont pay a LB twice though, they will move on from this group near the tail end of the deals, harrison just got paid later because he was older when he finally stuck on. Having Harrison, Timmons, Woodley (hightower???) locked up>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wallace
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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When harrison got his deal he was replacing porter who fell into the category of guys that had some left in the tank but were expendable. Harrison was like 29 when he had his first starting season and he was a beast against the run and damn near averages a sack a game..paying him was wise because he was a young 29 in that he hasnt played much and he could play all 4 LB spots. Timmons was drafted to replace porter, but struggled on the outside, gained some pounds and moved to the middle after they realized how good harrison was. We wont pay a LB twice though, they will move on from this group near the tail end of the deals, harrison just got paid later because he was older when he finally stuck on. Having Harrison, Timmons, Woodley (hightower???) locked up>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wallace
From wikipedia so not the most accurate, but he got a 6 year 51.75 mil extension on april 13th 2009. That is a couple weeks from his 31st birthday.

I think Harrison does great things on that D, but I just think optimally they let him walk and have a younger guy step in. Maybe move Timmons over or go with Worilds or Sylvester or whatever. That being said, I am not against paying two of their LB's primetime bucks, but paying three makes it hard to fill out their roster elsewhere, like at lets say o line.

One of the big developments in the NFL for me is the vogue of the 3-4. Previously 3-4 teams were the oddity, and those teams could get 3-4 players at great value. Since a ton of teams want these guys now it is much much harder to get them, and you have to pay them a lot more to keep them. I think Pittsburgh is a team that is really starting to feel this now. They can upkeep that great D, but at what price?

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Old 03-20-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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I think Harrison could get cut next offseason especially if Chris Carter and/or Jason Worilds prove they have improved. Ryan Clark is also a guy who could also get cut too.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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You can say it was me. I tore my ACL 2.5 months ago. I was wasted at the time I did it. It hurt but not a lot, maybe because of the booze. Although I knew something was wrong right away. I couldn't walk on it at all for about 24 hours. But after that it got better. I just found out yesterday it's torn. You just lose stability. My knee has given out a couple of times since then and I've bitten it hard two times. If you're not an athlete you actually don't need it or have to get it fixed.

Dominik Hixon played on a torn ACL. He tore his on that circus catch on MNF week 2. Went back into the game only to find out the next day it's torn.
so many players on the Giants tore their ACL and you do the same. That's die hard juggy
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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so many players on the Giants tore their ACL and you do the same. That's die hard juggy
Haha. I did it in the parking lot after the Giants/Jets game too.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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3 year deal for Jarrett Bush with the Packers.

http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=1...=5578902&fhn=1

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Veteran free agent defensive back Jarrett Bush has agreed to a three-year contract to stay with the Green Bay Packers after visiting the Arizona Cardinals and the New York Jets, according to a league source with knowledge of the situation.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Lions have OJ Atogwe and David Hawthorne in for visits today.

We also signed Jacob Lacey and re-signed Andre Fluellen.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I thought you guys hated Bush?
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I thought you guys hated Bush?
A lot of fans hate him because he sucked at CB for his first few years in the NFL. He's developed into a decent dime back, and he's one of the better STs players.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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I thought you guys hated Bush?
Many do. He's ok as a backup and a very good ST player though.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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For some reason I thought Wimbley was out of the league. It wasn't until I started researching free agency a few months ago that I realized he'd just been stuck in Oakland, and that he was actually doing ok.

Wimbley and Derrick Morgan don't exactly terrify me though. Not much of a pass rush.
Why would you be afraid of him? He is awful.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Wimbley should kiss Al Davis and his agent. $13.5 million guaranteed plus the 5 million last year and 6.5 million to get cut by Oakland. That's 25 million guaranteed on a 5 year deal over two years. It's funny how some players have to beg, cry and yell to get paid by teams and some luck out.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I thought that seemed like a lot at first, but he's a better player than I thought. He's only missed 2 starts in his career and seems to average int hat 6-7 sack a year range. Not a world beater, but solid.

Btw your sig and avatar confuse the hell out of me.
It wouldn't surprise me to see him get 10 sacks this year. He played for a really poor Browns D as a 3-4 backer, went to the Raiders and got 16 sacks in 2 years playing from the 4-3 LB position. Anytime a guy does that I'm fairly impressed.

I like the signing a lot since he'll play DE for us
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Ravens in talks with OLB Erik Walden, WR Ted Gin and a plethora of offensive lineman.
Doing what he does best, Ozzie waited out the beginning of the frenzy of free agency and he's got a few solid players lined up.
Don't be surprised to see a few signings this week.
The team has hinted at bringing in 2-4 new faces on the OLine.
5 big names have been linked to the Ravens so far:
OTs Anthony Collins & Brandon Keith
OG Vernon Carey
C Samson Satele & Mike Pollak
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Carey is the only thing close to a "big name" on that list. He'd make for a solid starting guard to replace Grubbs.

And Ginn is a receiver who can't catch. He'll help out as a return man but I definitely look for Cam Cameron to send him deep a lot and then I'll laugh when he doesn't catch the pass.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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This has been a really underwhelming offseason for the Ravens. None of those names inspire any confidence whatsoever. I'm really not expecting all that much from us next season, it's depressing. Most of the time I feel very comfortable with our roster as we routinely have one of the more talented ones in the league, but we've been really depleted as of late and have done little to nothing to improve our team. We've lost two upper tier (if not elite) starters in Grubbs and Jarrett Johnson with no viable replacement for either on the roster and call me crazy, but I don't think Ted Ginn or Anthony Collins are going to put us back in contention for a Super Bowl.

Plus, overcoming all of that with Cam Cameron calling plays? We'll be lucky to go 10-6 next season.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Carey is the only thing close to a "big name" on that list. He'd make for a solid starting guard to replace Grubbs.

And Ginn is a receiver who can't catch. He'll help out as a return man but I definitely look for Cam Cameron to send him deep a lot and then I'll laugh when he doesn't catch the pass.
Ginn is fast, there is no way Cam will send him deep. He'll have Ginn blocking while Boldin runs deep.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Ginn is fast, there is no way Cam will send him deep. He'll have Ginn blocking while Boldin runs deep.
No no, Ginn is the type he WILL send deep. Because, unlike Boldin who might actually catch it, Ginn won't.

It makes sense if you look at it from Cam Cameron's perspective. Only a genius worthy of being a head coach once again would think to do that.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Ravens in talks with OLB Erik Walden, WR Ted Gin and a plethora of offensive lineman.
Ah, I see that the Ravens are also scraping the bottom of the barrel in search of a second rush linebacker.

Just a heads up to Ravens fans: in GB, Walden was only marginally better than Frank Zombo and Brad Jones, and those guys aren't very good. He also created a distraction when he got arrested in a domestic dispute while GB was chasing a perfect season, so **** that guy.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:05 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Ginn would be brought on purely as a return man which he is good at. I don't expect him to see any wr snaps, but he could be really useful as a returner.

Jarrett Johnson was not an elite player. Kruger/Kindle/draft pick will more than likely be fine.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
coordinator0
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Ravens in talks with OLB Erik Walden, WR Ted Gin and a plethora of offensive lineman.
Doing what he does best, Ozzie waited out the beginning of the frenzy of free agency and he's got a few solid players lined up.
Don't be surprised to see a few signings this week.
The team has hinted at bringing in 2-4 new faces on the OLine.
5 big names have been linked to the Ravens so far:
OTs Anthony Collins & Brandon Keith
OG Vernon Carey
C Samson Satele & Mike Pollak
I've read the reports that Ginn was brought in for a visit Friday but nothing on any of the other stuff. Where did you hear that?

I really hope we don't rely on Ginn as a receiver if he's signed. Our return game needs a boost and not having to use Webb as a PR would be great but if they think Ginn can do anything more than that... bleh.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:07 PM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Ginn would be brought on purely as a return man which he is good at. I don't expect him to see any wr snaps, but he could be really useful as a returner.

Jarrett Johnson was not an elite player. Kruger/Kindle/draft pick will more than likely be fine.
Do you say that because you truly, truly believe it? Or are you just hoping that the guy who drafted Ginn doesn't stick him out there at WR to try and recoup some losses?
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:14 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Do you say that because you truly, truly believe it? Or are you just hoping that the guy who drafted Ginn doesn't stick him out there at WR to try and recoup some losses?
I'm deeply hoping. We just need to give him a DB number or something so that he won't be an eligible receiver. At least Torrey can catch half the deep balls.

I also think that Ginn could possibly be the final piece to revealing the Cam-Cam's true genius. His offense hasn't work yet because Ginn wasn't part of it. That's why he drafted Ginn so high.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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Ginn would be brought on purely as a return man which he is good at. I don't expect him to see any wr snaps, but he could be really useful as a returner.

Jarrett Johnson was not an elite player. Kruger/Kindle/draft pick will more than likely be fine.
Grubbs was elite, Johnson is an upper tier starter who is frequently cited as one of the best unheralded players in the NFL. Everyone in the Ravens organization and throughout the NFL raves about how he's routinely one of the best and most consistent parts of our defense. Moreover, Kindle/Kruger have done nothing, absolutely nothing to suggest that they're capable of replacing his production. Kindle is reported to be on the roster bubble and hasn't recorded a single tackle since being drafted, while Kruger has been a large disappointment as well.

This team has gotten significantly worse, not better since last season. Seeing as how we weren't good enough to make it to the show last year, I highly doubt we're making it this year. I said it before, last year was our window. We had a healthy team in the playoffs, we managed to beat the Steelers twice in a season and kept the Pats under wraps for all of 50 minutes until Flacco, Cameron and Cundiff decided to **** everything up.
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