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Old 03-22-2012, 02:36 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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I'm not convinced that he could get much more than $15 Million guaranteed. He might get more money on paper, but probably not guaranteed. A lot of teams are starting to view RBs as fungible commodities. That's why more and more, they're sliding in the draft.
They've been sliding in the draft for years and runningbacks are still getting lots of money.

Adrian Peterson- 36 mil guaranteeed
Chris Johnson- 30 mil guaranteed
Deangelo Williams- 21 mil guaranteed
Marshawn Lynch- 18 mil guaranteed

I disagree with my fellow Bears fans here; they are absolutely low-balling him.

But they can, because they have the franchise tag, and no amount of bitching will change that. It's funny that he paints himself as the good guy, but I haven't heard a peep out of Ray Rice, who is arguably better.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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There is no argument to be made for DeAngelo Williams getting paid as much as he did, and now his deal is going to be the basement level expectation for what players like Forte and his agent want.

Also, we're seeing more and more of the regularly successful teams in the league adopting RB by committee approaches. The Pats, Giants, Saints, Packers all used at least 2 backs regularly, some even 3.

It almost seems like the best course of action would just be to take a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round every other year. Let him walk when he reaches the end of the deal, insert the last one you drafted, draft another, move on....all for, what, 500k a season?
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:41 PM    (permalink
WCH
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They've been sliding in the draft for years and runningbacks are still getting lots of money.

Adrian Peterson- 36 mil guaranteeed
Chris Johnson- 30 mil guaranteed
Deangelo Williams- 21 mil guaranteed
Marshawn Lynch- 18 mil guaranteed

I disagree with my fellow Bears fans here; they are absolutely low-balling him.

But they can, because they have the franchise tag, and no amount of bitching will change that. It's funny that he paints himself as the good guy, but I haven't heard a peep out of Ray Rice, who is arguably better.
I didn't know that Lynch got 18 mil guaranteed. He's coming off of a great year, but I like Forte's body of work more, so in a perfect world I'd probably pay him accordingly.

Peterson and Johnson are in a different category than guys like Forte, Lynch, and Williams (or at least, they were when they signed those deals).
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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They've been sliding in the draft for years and runningbacks are still getting lots of money.

Adrian Peterson- 36 mil guaranteeed
Chris Johnson- 30 mil guaranteed
Deangelo Williams- 21 mil guaranteed
Marshawn Lynch- 18 mil guaranteed

I disagree with my fellow Bears fans here; they are absolutely low-balling him.

But they can, because they have the franchise tag, and no amount of bitching will change that. It's funny that he paints himself as the good guy, but I haven't heard a peep out of Ray Rice, who is arguably better.
I really hope we trade him for O-line help, a legit #2 WR, or a decent draft pick to be used on OL. The tag gets awfully expensive in year two and no way do I want to commit more than 15 million guaranteed to a running back. Just build the line and put any ole body back there.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson is great, but he's not twice as good as Forte.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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They've been sliding in the draft for years and runningbacks are still getting lots of money.

Adrian Peterson- 36 mil guaranteeed
Chris Johnson- 30 mil guaranteed
Deangelo Williams- 21 mil guaranteed
Marshawn Lynch- 18 mil guaranteed

I disagree with my fellow Bears fans here; they are absolutely low-balling him.

But they can, because they have the franchise tag, and no amount of bitching will change that. It's funny that he paints himself as the good guy, but I haven't heard a peep out of Ray Rice, who is arguably better.
Arian Foster also got 21 mil guaranteed. You could use him instead of Deangelo.

Ray Rice's agent did a little complaining before he got the tag. I still don't get why players complain about the tag? 7.7 million this year, a potential 9.25 next year. There is your 15 million guaranteed if you just stay healthy one more year. And if you stay healthy two more years, you'll still be up for a decent contract.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Arian Foster also got 21 mil guaranteed. You could use him instead of Deangelo.

Ray Rice's agent did a little complaining before he got the tag. I still don't get why players complain about the tag?
Because they want to be protected for the future. If they got badly injured in their franchise tag year they would lose millions.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Arian Foster also got 21 mil guaranteed. You could use him instead of Deangelo.

Ray Rice's agent did a little complaining before he got the tag. I still don't get why players complain about the tag?
If they get hurt while playing on the tag, it ruins their chance at a big contract.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson is great, but he's not twice as good as Forte.
True, but when it you put it that way, BeerBaron is right. Matt Forte is better than James Starks (by a lot), but he's not 14 times better than Starks.

I think BeerBaron is on to something, but you have to be able to draft decent RBs every couple of years.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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If they get hurt while playing on the tag, it ruins their chance at a big contract.
Does it? We just gave Terrell Thomas a potential 4 year 20 million dollar deal coming off his second ACL injury to the same knee. I would think Forte could get a bigger deal than that.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Arian Foster also got 21 mil guaranteed. You could use him instead of Deangelo.
Ok. Throw Foster in there too. I'm not sure what that changes though. Forte could clearly get 20 mil guaranteed on the open market. When the Bears are offering 75% of that, I understand why he's frustrated. He just doesn't need to ***** about it like a girl on twitter.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:51 PM    (permalink
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Ok. Throw Foster in there too. I'm not sure what that changes though. Forte could clearly get 20 mil guaranteed on the open market. When the Bears are offering 75% of that, I understand why he's frustrated. He just doesn't need to ***** about it like a girl on twitter.
It doesn't change anything. But then people can't complain Williams is a bad example. I agree, you are low balling him.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Does it? We just gave Terrell Thomas a potential 4 year 20 million dollar deal coming off his second ACL injury to the same knee. I would think Forte could get a bigger deal than that.
He's an exception in that it doesn't seem to include a first year "prove it" season to unlock the rest of the contract.

He also benefits from getting hurt in the preseason, so he should be healthy to start this one.

Tear up your knee in week 17 and you could possibly be off the team, see Mendenhall.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Didn't they say that they were gonna take care of him a while ago? It make sense for a team to just use and dump RB's, but if I was Forte I wouldn't show up with out a new contract. They don't want to give him even near market value.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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This conversation reminds me that Pierre Garcon got 21 million guaranteed. Holy ****......
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Didn't they say that they were gonna take care of him a while ago? It make sense for a team to just use and dump RB's, but if I was Forte I wouldn't show up with out a new contract. They don't want to give him even near market value.
He can sign, he can play, or someone can offer us a decent trade. If he wants to sit out, he's only hurting his own value. I HATE the idea of throwing big money at a running back. Such a dumb risk to take.

Why not stack the O-line and throw a decent pass-catching fourth-rounder back there? At least going that route has the added benefit of keeping the franchise QB alive and non-concussed.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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He can sign, he can play, or someone can offer us a decent trade. If he wants to sit out, he's only hurting his own value. I HATE the idea of throwing big money at a running back. Such a dumb risk to take.

Why not stack the O-line and throw a decent pass-catching fourth-rounder back there? At least going that route has the added benefit of keeping the franchise QB alive and non-concussed.
Because that's so easy. Just look at your team. Stacking your O-line will either take a long time or a lot more money than what Forte is asking for.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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Because that's so easy. Just look at your team. Stacking your O-line will either take a long time or a lot more money than what Forte is asking for.
Hey, it's gotta be improved, anyway. We can start by trading Forte, clearing out 7 mil in cap space, and signing Demetrius Bell + another RB.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Hey, it's gotta be improved, anyway. We can start by trading Forte, clearing out 7 mil in cap space, and signing Demetrius Bell + another RB.
Do you think you will be a better team THIS year by doing that?
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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Do you think you will be a better team THIS year by doing that?
Carimi back from injury, Demetrius Bell starting at LT, a drafted guard starting, and defenses finally fearing one of our WRs should make Michael Bush look pretty darned good.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
If they get hurt while playing on the tag, it ruins their chance at a big contract.
Ray rice doesn't get injuries. Injuries get ray riced
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Ray rice doesn't get injuries. Injuries get ray riced
Ray Rice just gets Cam Cameroned.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Ray Rice just gets Cam Cameroned.
Stop hurting me.

What I'm really curious about is why Bush chose to be a backup instead of a starter. There are at least 4 teams who could have offered him more touches then the Bears, and most likely more money as well. He's got feature back talent and very little wear and tear...Am I missing something? I would have loved to sign Bush if I was the Bengals, Browns, Bucs, Colts, etc...Hell, even someone like the Giants would have offered more touches. I don't get why he'd want to go to one of the few places with a true workhorse back.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Look over the last few pages and that "workhorse back" you speak of seems very likely to holdout for an extended time.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Stop hurting me.

What I'm really curious about is why Bush chose to be a backup instead of a starter. There are at least 4 teams who could have offered him more touches then the Bears, and most likely more money as well. He's got feature back talent and very little wear and tear...Am I missing something? I would have loved to sign Bush if I was the Bengals, Browns, Bucs, Colts, etc...Hell, even someone like the Giants would have offered more touches. I don't get why he'd want to go to one of the few places with a true workhorse back.
The Bengals apparently decided on Benjarvis instead, and nobody wants to go to Cleveland and Indy right now. You're probably right about the Giants, but who knows if they are interested.

The signing is a bit peculiar, but maybe Emery is planning on trading Forte.
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