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Old 07-27-2011, 08:10 PM    (permalink
Xiomera
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
worst trade i can ever remember in the nfl. worse than denver trading for alphonso smith bad.
... which they compounded by letting Detroit have him for basically nothing and he ended up being very productive last year.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Almost every move to get a QB is widely criticized by fans. Fans think teams should stand around waiting for Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to fall into their lap. The Cardinals had to do something at QB. No matter what they did it's a major risk. The only move a team makes to get a QB over the next year that won't be criticized is taking Andrew Luck #1 overall. That's the only QB move that will be widely viewed as low risk/high reward.
Fans of the team in question do almost always criticize the move, but when non-fans start criticizing the move, it probably is a bad idea.

There is no way that you can argue that:

1.) Kevin Kolb is worth $30 million guaranteed
2.) Kevin Kolb is worth a very talented former first round pick at CB, even if he hasn't completely put it all together yet.
3.) A 2nd round pick to boot.

The 2nd round pick alone allows the Eagles to break even, and then they get a first round talent at CB to develop? Absurd. It's an awful trade for the Cardinals.

I know I like Kyle Orton more than most, but I'd gladly give just the 2nd for him...and I could probably get him for less than that. He was a winner in Chicago, winning 2/3 of his starts there. And the he showed that, even if it was under a stat inflating system, he could produce big numbers as well.

Orton for a 2nd or less >>>>>> Kolb for a 2nd, DRC and $30 mil.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
I said one of, with the Walker trade as the undisputed worst.

Look at the money, the very talented if not fully developed DRC, and the pick....it's rape for the Eagles.
The money isn't part of the deal, and the talent exchanged is meh unless the 2nd rounder becomes a good-great player. I'm not as high on DRC as others, but I see this as an average for below average swap, and that's not the makings of a worst trade in history, or even close to it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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... which they compounded by letting Detroit have him for basically nothing and he ended up being very productive last year.
He was productive in making me laugh on Thanksgiving.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I actually don't think the trade by itself is that bad (less than the Texans gave for Schaub, for example), but 30 mil guaranteed is a LOT of money for a guy with limited starts and pedigree.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I enjoy seeing the Cards fail more then anyone but even i feel bad for them on this one.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
I know I like Kyle Orton more than most, but I'd gladly give just the 2nd for him...and I could probably get him for less than that. He was a winner in Chicago, winning 2/3 of his starts there. And the he showed that, even if it was under a stat inflating system, he could produce big numbers as well.

Orton for a 2nd or less >>>>>> Kolb for a 2nd, DRC and $30 mil.
Kyle Orton isnt great, but hes not getting his due this offseason. I have yet to see even a remotely compelling argument for kolb being a better qb than orton in any way.


Halsey:
Its true everyone rips qb moves because they are risky. But honestly tell me this, anyone:

If kolb were in the draft his coming year with luck and barkley, would you consider taking him over either for even a second? even knowing what you do about how hes performed thus far in his career?
Matt cassel fetched a high second rounder on a MUCH better body of work, also coming from a qb friendly system that season (as kolb is now).

so what in the hell makes kolb worth that much more?
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ton-deal-done/

Orton to Miami is close. Sounds like Miami wants him to take a pay cut first.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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Yeah I actually don't think the trade by itself is that bad (less than the Texans gave for Schaub, for example), but 30 mil guaranteed is a LOT of money for a guy with limited starts and pedigree.
Good point but Schaub showed a lot more with Atlanta then Kolb has with Philly. But yeah, 30 million guaranteed is crazy.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Any rumors on Ray Edwards? I thought he would have signed a monster deal by now.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Good point but Schaub showed a lot more with Atlanta then Kolb has with Philly. But yeah, 30 million guaranteed is crazy.
It depends on how much more than $30 million guaranteed he gets. Cassel got $28 mil guaranteed in less...lucrative cba and market conditions.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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Any rumors on Ray Edwards? I thought he would have signed a monster deal by now.

Sounds like the Seahawks, Browns, Titans, Eagles and maybe the Falcons are in on it right now. I've heard the Browns are his favorite so far.

Edwards said he didn't think that the Vikes have even talked to his agent.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Any rumors on Ray Edwards? I thought he would have signed a monster deal by now.
I was just thinking about him earlier today...I haven't heard a single peep other than some vague rumors yesterday that he was considering Philly and Seattle.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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Kyle Orton isnt great, but hes not getting his due this offseason. I have yet to see even a remotely compelling argument for kolb being a better qb than orton in any way.
Potential. Orton has a noodle arm. His stats in Denver were a fabrication of the system, which relied on short passes. Kyle Orton in Chicago is the QB other teams are going to get.

I think fantasy football has convinced a lot of people that Orton is a good starting QB in the NFL, he is most certainly not. He is a very good backup you can start while you're waiting to draft someone better.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Potential. Orton has a noodle arm. His stats in Denver were a fabrication of the system, which relied on short passes. Kyle Orton in Chicago is the QB other teams are going to get.
I don't know if you've seen Kolb try to throw a deep ball, but it's not much better than what Orton can do, if at all. I've at least seen Orton get it to go deep, even if it doesn't come down anywhere close to where it's supposed to.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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Potential. Orton has a noodle arm. His stats in Denver were a fabrication of the system, which relied on short passes. Kyle Orton in Chicago is the QB other teams are going to get.

I think fantasy football has convinced a lot of people that Orton is a good starting QB in the NFL, he is most certainly not. He is a very good backup you can start while you're waiting to draft someone better.

Kolb threw nothing but short passes in the games I saw him play last year. Didn't even look down the field for several plays in a row.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. I've seen very little of Kolb, I'm just assuming he has more potential than Orton, since Orton has none.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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Almost every move to get a QB is widely criticized by fans. Fans think teams should stand around waiting for Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to fall into their lap. The Cardinals had to do something at QB. No matter what they did it's a major risk. The only move a team makes to get a QB over the next year that won't be criticized is taking Andrew Luck #1 overall. That's the only QB move that will be widely viewed as low risk/high reward.
Well they shouldn't have caved in. Yes they needed help. But look, they went ahead and got Patrick Peterson when they could have taken someone else in the draft. And Kyle Orton was also available, who has had much more experience and put up decent numbers on a terrible team.

Kolb has had only a handful of starts and looked hot and cold on one of the best teams in the NFL. Matt Cassel's trade deal was even better than what Arizona just gave up and Cassel was a lot more proven.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:34 PM    (permalink
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i thought just DRC was WAY to much, a number 2 pick and a 30 million guarantee for kolb...everyone win EXCEPT the cards.

DRC=win
Eagles=epic ******* win
Kolb=straight up raping the universe kind of win
Cardinals Second round pick=doesnt have to play for these **** bags
Cards=fail
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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Kolb threw nothing but short passes in the games I saw him play last year. Didn't even look down the field for several plays in a row.
Look at the games Kolb played vs. Desean Jackson's stats for more proof of this. Jackson caught 10 passes in the 6 games where Kolb played. Kolb can't go deep.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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You don't know how good Kolb is going to be. Nobody knew how good Aaron Rodgers was going to be based on his limited playing time behind Favre. Many people expected Rodgers to be a bust as Favre's replacement. It wasn't until Rodgers became a full time starter and got consistent playing time that he proved he's a franchise qb.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Potential. Orton has a noodle arm. His stats in Denver were a fabrication of the system, which relied on short passes. Kyle Orton in Chicago is the QB other teams are going to get.

I think fantasy football has convinced a lot of people that Orton is a good starting QB in the NFL, he is most certainly not. He is a very good backup you can start while you're waiting to draft someone better.
That's still better than Kolb. Orton is an average QB, and he's not going to hold a team back (although he won't push then to the next level either). Kolb held DeSean Jackson back big time when he played.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:36 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. I've seen very little of Kolb, I'm just assuming he has more potential than Orton, since Orton has none.
Potential costs way too much on the FA market these days. Stock up on draft picks more than ever. They're cheaper than ever and their potential is fresh, not 2-3 years after proving nothing in the league.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:37 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
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You don't know how good Kolb is going to be. Nobody knew how good Aaron Rodgers was going to be based on his limited playing time behind Favre. Many people expected Rodgers to be a bust as Favre's replacement. It wasn't until Rodgers became a full time starter and got consistent playing time that he proved he's a franchise qb.
Rodgers is a lot more physically gifted than Kolb. Not too mention the Packers stuck with Rodgers over Favre, and the Eagles were happily letting Kolb go.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Miami is a good landing spot for Orton. It will be interesting to see if he plays like he did in Denver.
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