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Old 07-27-2011, 08:39 PM    (permalink
BeerBaron
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
You don't know how good Kolb is going to be. Nobody knew how good Aaron Rodgers was going to be based on his limited playing time behind Favre. Many people expected Rodgers to be a bust as Favre's replacement. It wasn't until Rodgers became a full time starter and got consistent playing time that he proved he's a franchise qb.
For every Rodgers there are few dozen Scott Mitchells, Rob Johnsons, AJ Feelys, Charlie Whitehursts, etc.

Additionally, the Packers spent one later first round pick on Rodgers who fell into their laps. The Eagles will be giving up DRC (a former first), a 2nd, and a pile of guaranteed money for a guy with....7 starts? Of which 2-3 were decent? Yikes...
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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even if kolb is kinda good....they traded away a high future pick which never makes you feel good and they broke up a very very promising secondary and part of a young defense.

hell DRC might be the only guy they knew could play CB at a respectable level...they have no idea what they have in peterson and im pretty sure the rest of what they have is trash.

and now the eagles have probably a top 3 CB tandem, a place they were very thin at last year. DRC isnt a world beater, but he'll be a good number 2 cb in philly.

although now at least i can see a lot of pathetic attempts at run defense and whiffed tackles by the eagles CBs every week since i have the pleasure of all eagles games
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
Rodgers is a lot more physically gifted than Kolb.
That and Rodgers was considered a steal when he was drafted. Scott, and many others, thought he could go or should go top 5. The Eagles on the other hand had people scratching their head when they took him that high in the 2nd round. I just don't get how this guys value goes up (and significantly) when he is no more of a proven comodity than he was 4 years ago when he was drafted. A sucker is born every minute. Apparently they all work for the Cardinals.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers is a lot more physically gifted than Kolb. Not too mention the Packers stuck with Rodgers over Favre, and the Eagles were happily letting Kolb go.
Having lesser physical talent that Rodgers doesn't mean he can't be a quality starting QB. The Giants were happy to let Kurt Warner go. That didn't stop him from helping the Cardinals.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Having lesser physical talent that Rodgers doesn't mean he can't be a quality starting QB. The Giants were happy to let Kurt Warner go. That didn't stop him from helping the Cardinals.
Eh Kurt Warner benefited his whole career from amazing supporting casts. Plus you didn't give up anything for him.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Having lesser physical talent that Rodgers doesn't mean he can't be a quality starting QB. The Giants were happy to let Kurt Warner go. That didn't stop him from helping the Cardinals.

What?!? Kurt Warner was a ******* former NFL and Super Bowl MVP. How are the two remotely comparable?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
Having lesser physical talent that Rodgers doesn't mean he can't be a quality starting QB. The Giants were happy to let Kurt Warner go. That didn't stop him from helping the Cardinals.
Kurt Warner had a lot more weapons than Kolb has, and was a hell of a lot better. Nobody expected that career resurgence, and that is very rare. Kolb just isn't very good, and Arizona is going to realize it.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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im taking the kolb talk to the other thread just to keep this one from getting cluttered with all the 'stupid cardinals' and other negativity.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:48 PM    (permalink
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Potential. Orton has a noodle arm. His stats in Denver were a fabrication of the system, which relied on short passes. Kyle Orton in Chicago is the QB other teams are going to get.

I think fantasy football has convinced a lot of people that Orton is a good starting QB in the NFL, he is most certainly not. He is a very good backup you can start while you're waiting to draft someone better.
o_O Orton has always had a strong arm. The Orton of Chicago was still a winning QB.

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Fair enough. I've seen very little of Kolb, I'm just assuming he has more potential than Orton, since Orton has none.
Apparently you fail on both fronts.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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o_O Orton has always had a strong arm. The Orton of Chicago was still a winning QB.
Are we talking about the same Orton here?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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He was productive in making me laugh on Thanksgiving.
That was bad, yes, but he was a playmaker and pretty solid the rest of the year. Had like 5 INTs in 5 games or something during one stretch. Definitely can be our nickel back going forward.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with giving up a 2nd for Kolb that is the going rate but DRC and $30 million?
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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lolwut? you know we're talking about kyle orton, right? he's not pennington, but he doesn't even have mediocre arm strength.
I'd say mediocre. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being Ken "look at him try to frow da football" Dorsey, 3 being Pennington and 10 being Russell, I'd put Orton at like a 4 or 5. He can get some zip on shorter stuff, but his deep ball leaves something to be desired.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Again, teams have to take risks with the QB position. Settling for a Kyle Orton is a cowards way out. The Cardinals might as well tell fans they're gonna wait till next year to try to find a franchise QB. Effefctively making the 2011 season a waste of time.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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This has been such a slow ass day for Dallas news. There is nothing out there.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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I think this trade goes to show that Whisenhunt is starting to feeling a little bit of heat brewing under his seat. That's the only way to possibly explain this: a desperation move to get the Cards (hopefully) back to the playoffs with a weak NFC west.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I don't have a problem with giving up a 2nd for Kolb that is the going rate but DRC and $30 million?
Cassel got $28 mil guaranteed, 30+ for Kolb is what you'd expect in these market conditions.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Again, teams have to take risks with the QB position. Settling for a Kyle Orton is a cowards way out. The Cardinals might as well tell fans they're gonna wait till next year to try to find a franchise QB. Effefctively making the 2011 season a waste of time.
Even if Kolb is better it's not by much and Orton could have been had for less. I don't think going after Orton would have been "settling".
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Cassel got 28 mil guaranteed, 30+ for Kolb is what you'd expect.
Cassel also started and played well in 15 games. Kolb has 7 or 8 starts, of which 2-3 were decent.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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Again, teams have to take risks with the QB position. Settling for a Kyle Orton is a cowards way out. The Cardinals might as well tell fans they're gonna wait till next year to try to find a franchise QB. Effefctively making the 2011 season a waste of time.
I disagree. The West stinks. We can agree on that. Is Orton good enough to win the West? I think so. Is Kolb? He could be. Either way I don't think you answered your franchise QB problem. But now you've likely set yourself back more years.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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i dunno about a scale that puts current pennington that far above dorsey, but i guess it's a matter of definition anyways. i'd agree, he's just fine on anything short, but the deep balls just get ugly. he owes a lot to brandon lloyd on everything over 15 last year.
Maybe to account for the surgeries, Pennington would be like a 2....3 on a good day.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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lolwut? you know we're talking about kyle orton, right? he's not pennington, but he doesn't even have mediocre arm strength.
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I'd say mediocre. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being Ken "look at him try to frow da football" Dorsey, 3 being Pennington and 10 being Russell, I'd put Orton at like a 4 or 5. He can get some zip on shorter stuff, but his deep ball leaves something to be desired.
The guy has had above average arm strength for most of his career. Try 6-7.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Again, teams have to take risks with the QB position. Settling for a Kyle Orton is a cowards way out. The Cardinals might as well tell fans they're gonna wait till next year to try to find a franchise QB. Effefctively making the 2011 season a waste of time.
the gap between orton and kolb is marginal at best, orton could have been had for less too.

ive said it before and it bears repeating: kolb will be replaced after two seasons by the next cardinals coaching staff. so this is basically just a waste for them, hes never taking a team to the super bowl, he doesnt have what it takes to beat a manning or a rodgers to get his team to the next level.

getting kolb creates false hope. Lets just hope for the sake of the Cards that he doesnt play justtttt good enough to get them to pass on say luck next year if the rest of the team bombs out around him.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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The guy has had above average arm strength for most of his career. Try 6-7.
A 6 or 7...no. Not Kyle Orton. His deep balls look like punts. He might be able to heave it that far, but it's unlikely to come down anywhere near where he was aiming.
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Old 07-27-2011, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Cassel also started and played well in 15 games. Kolb has 7 or 8 starts, of which 2-3 were decent.
I'm not trying to argue Kolb was more valuable/better than Cassel. But it's been 2 years since then and there's a new cba resulting in teams spending a lot of money, $30+ mil guaranteed is what you'd expect for Kolb in these conditions. I wouldn't trade for Kolb at all, especially at that price, but that's what the Cards will have to pay him in an extension.
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