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Old 05-21-2012, 06:43 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by Scotty D View Post
Why are they going to cut Winslow? Let Clark make it through training camp first.
Winslow pretty much did this to himself. He's never been a team guy and hasn't been at any workouts with the team this off-season.

Not only that, but once the Bucs hired Schiano, he publicly stated he preferred the team hired Rob Chudzinski. That was his first strike pretty much there. Schiano wants team players , not "ME" Players. Honestly, I predicted Dominik would do this before the off-season. Just surprised it took too long.

The fact we're bringing in Clark is because he'll be a huge upgrade in the lockerroom and I believe he's going to mold Luke Stocker and the Bucs probably are going to run a lot more 2 TE formations.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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So we have conflicting reports that the Bears are and aren't currently interested in Winslow after not being able to work out a trade at the start of free agency.

I'm torn. He's super one-dimensional. He's a wasted body as a blocker. He has a big mouth and is a typical diva. He's got knees that could go out at any time. He makes too much money for the risk he is. On the other hand, he draws attention from defenses and historically has a decently low drop percentage.

Our current #1 TE is a complete mystery. He's shown flashes of brilliance, but also looks raw since he was first blocked by Greg Olsen and then played under the TE-hating Mike Martz. Our #2 is no threat at all to get open or catch a ball. Our #3 is a project that just got drafted.

I guess I can dig it if it's super cheap, like a sixth rounder. I'll hate it to holy hell if it's a third.

I am glad we didn't go for Dallas Clark, though. Guy is D-O-N-E. Even in the limited time that he played over the past two seasons, he was horrible. Guy's been in the league for nine seasons and he's only getting attention because of a two year "good" period. Bad move, Bucs.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:12 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
So we have conflicting reports that the Bears are and aren't currently interested in Winslow after not being able to work out a trade at the start of free agency.

I'm torn. He's super one-dimensional. He's a wasted body as a blocker. He has a big mouth and is a typical diva. He's got knees that could go out at any time. He makes too much money for the risk he is. On the other hand, he draws attention from defenses and historically has a decently low drop percentage.

Our current #1 TE is a complete mystery. He's shown flashes of brilliance, but also looks raw since he was first blocked by Greg Olsen and then played under the TE-hating Mike Martz. Our #2 is no threat at all to get open or catch a ball. Our #3 is a project that just got drafted.

I guess I can dig it if it's super cheap, like a sixth rounder. I'll hate it to holy hell if it's a third.

I am glad we didn't go for Dallas Clark, though. Guy is D-O-N-E. Even in the limited time that he played over the past two seasons, he was horrible. Guy's been in the league for nine seasons and he's only getting attention because of a two year "good" period. Bad move, Bucs.
He was in the top 5 in the NFL last year in total drops. He was awful last year and is a terrible locker room presence to have.

Dallas Clark may not be the player he used to be, but he's CLEARLY an upgrade in the locker room and will bring leadership and experience like a true professional to the young bucs. I think Stocker takes over as the starter with Clark as the #2.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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The Bucs fans are pretty much right. Winslow doesn't fit the Schiano mould so he is going to lose his place on the team. I still think he can fit in somewhere in the NFL. He isn't a great blocker, but he has put up good numbers as a receiver the last three/four years.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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He was in the top 5 in the NFL last year in total drops. He was awful last year and is a terrible locker room presence to have.

Dallas Clark may not be the player he used to be, but he's CLEARLY an upgrade in the locker room and will bring leadership and experience like a true professional to the young bucs. I think Stocker takes over as the starter with Clark as the #2.
I don't know where you heard that, but Winslow only had 5 drops last season despite being the 4th-most targeted TE (and the most-targeted player of any kind on your roster). The Bucs as a team led the league in dropped passes, but Winslow wasn't the one doing it (take a look at Mike Williams, 3rd-most in the NFL)...and he has a history of sure hands. In 2010, Winslow had the 4th-lowest drop rate in the league.

He wasn't even close to the top 5 in drops last year. He didn't even lead TEs in the NFC South, let alone be among the 5 worst in the NFL.

Dallas Clark DID lead TEs in drops for 2011, though, so that's fun. He had 9 and was only targeted half as many times as Winslow. So, your new TE has nearly twice as many in half the chances...which places him among the top 5 worst in the NFL in both total drops and drop percentage. You got your guys mixed up.

I agree that Winslow wasn't good last year, and I agree that he's a shithead who's bad on a locker room, but the man has good hands and is obviously better than Dallas Clark. If you want Dallas Clark as a locker room guy who teaches TEs, hire him as a coach so he can't hurt your team by playing.

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Old 05-21-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Marshall, Jeffery, and Winslow in one offseason would be quite a turn around from your undersized receiving corps of past years. Would be a great pickup for the Bears. No team has 3 DBs that can match up with that size.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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Jay Glazer ‏@JayGlazer
Bucs are sending Kellen Winslow to Seattle for conditional late round draft pick. Sides still ironing out language
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Haha, I wonder what his dad thinks about him playing in Seattle now. If you didn't know the backstory.
http://assets.espn.go.com/ncf/s/2001/0501/1189879.html
Decent trade for both teams.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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So now Phil Carroll has two good pass-catching TEs to ignore?
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:02 AM    (permalink
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Apparently its only for a conditional 7th so good deal for SEA. The Bucks were just gonna release him anyways.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:16 AM    (permalink
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Not only that, but once the Bucs hired Schiano, he publicly stated he preferred the team hired Rob Chudzinski. That was his first strike pretty much there. Schiano wants team players , not "ME" Players. Honestly, I predicted Dominik would do this before the off-season. Just surprised it took too long.
When I think of team players, Vincent Jackson is the first name I think of.
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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So now Phil Carroll has two good pass-catching TEs to ignore?
Who's Phil Carroll? Pete's brother?

You're a moron, me.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:15 AM    (permalink
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Kellen Winslow is only 28. It feels like he's been in the NFL forever.
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Old 05-22-2012, 07:49 AM    (permalink
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Always hated Winslow, so I am glad he's gone. He has great hands, but that's it. His knees are done, so he cannot get any separation and YAC at all. He also hates to block (and sucks at it) and he has that horrible whining attitude when he is not targeted. He was one of the first to quit last season. I think Freeman is happy about Winslow's departure.

As for Clark, huh. At this point of his carreer, he's not good, but at least he's not a cancer and he will be able to practice with the team, which never happened with K2. Looks like the Bucs will put Luke Stocker as their starting TE... Interesting.

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Old 05-22-2012, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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Kellen Winslow is only 28. It feels like he's been in the NFL forever.
Contrary to the usual bashing teams give their ex-players, I actually think he has some fuel left in the tank.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:08 AM    (permalink
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Luke Stocker wasn't a particularly good blocker in college so it's surprising that Greg Schiano is going to be moving forwards with two receiving tight ends despite favoring more of a ground and pound attack.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Luke Stocker wasn't a particularly good blocker in college so it's surprising that Greg Schiano is going to be moving forwards with two receiving tight ends despite favoring more of a ground and pound attack.
He looked solid last year in a blocking role, although apparently the Bucs are quite high on Zach Pianalto as a blocker, so maybe the plan is to get him more involved some how.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-it-a-career/

Brodie Croyle retires...career record of 0-10. That's somewhat impressive in a bad way.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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At least he didn't hang around and just pad stats
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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So now Phil Carroll has two good pass-catching TEs to ignore?
Eh, that was more due to offensive line issues. They had to put Zach Miller in to block because the right side was getting destroyed. They used a lot of 1-back 2-TE and 2-back 2-TE sets later(esp vs the Eagles). Also helps that Matt Flynn/Russell Wilson can throw to the middle of the field unlike T-Jack.

Since they didn't re-do his deal, I assume he'll get cut by next year. No guaranteed money so its pretty much a 7th round pick to get a better #2 TE over what they have.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Too bad Croyle never panned out. It would have been the perfect time since Trent Green's time in Kansas City was over.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...s-it-a-career/

Brodie Croyle retires...career record of 0-10. That's somewhat impressive in a bad way.
He says he's going out on his own terms? I didn't realize being so awful that no team even wants you in the stadium on gameday were his terms. At least he has a hot wife.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
vidae
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Croyle was awful, no doubt about that, but his biggest problem was health. He could NEVER stay healthy. His nickname was Brokie because every time he got hit he had some kind of injury.

He did have a rocket arm though. That was neat.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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I remember Chiefs fans on an interwebs forum (was it here?) arguing right after the 2008 season.

Faction 1: "Tyler Thigpen is the QB of the future! He looked really good for what he had to work with!"

Faction 2: "Brodie Croyle is the QB of the future! He flashed franchise stuff before he got hurt!"

Faction 3: "I hope we trade for Matt Cassell!"

Faction 4: "If any of you are right, shoot me in the face!"

Ah, Faction 4...they never listen to reason, do they?
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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Nevermind bogus reporting.
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