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Old 01-02-2014, 01:42 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
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Will never happen. We may see a contract with $27M aav down the line, but A-Rod's was all guaranteed.
Guaranteed contracts are so stupid. If your company you work at were to give you a, lets say 5 year $250,000 contract all guaranteed, where is your incentive in working hard to be the best you can be?

It really is silly.
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"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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I feel bad for the Browns. Just when I start singing their praises, and it looks like they're moving in the right direction, they remind us all why they're the Browns.

Mingo in a wide 9 is gonna be fun....

Awful. Just awful.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Guaranteed contracts are so stupid. If your company you work at were to give you a, lets say 5 year $250,000 contract all guaranteed, where is your incentive in working hard to be the best you can be?

It really is silly.
And yet golden parachutes exist for failure execs as well. It is a common, if stupid, standard here in america.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Guaranteed contracts are so stupid. If your company you work at were to give you a, lets say 5 year $250,000 contract all guaranteed, where is your incentive in working hard to be the best you can be?

It really is silly.
Injuries, though. Signing more money with less guaranteed is too risky. And NFL teams do it to save money.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:53 PM    (permalink
PoopSandwich
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Injuries, though. Signing more money with less guaranteed is too risky. And NFL teams do it to save money.
Yeah, I understand that part. I meant it more in the way of the MLB... You look at someone like Josh Hamilton, give that dude a mega deal all guaranteed? He has spotty character at best and money is a huge motivation to show up and give it your all. Guaranteeing all of that takes away a large part of motivation.

One could argue however that if you have a guaranteed contract you could just go out and enjoy yourself and focus on your craft without the worry of financial flexibility.
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"If something happens, and it's the Cleveland Browns, I'm going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland," he said. "I don't care if they've had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I'm going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl." - JFF
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I understand that part. I meant it more in the way of the MLB... You look at someone like Josh Hamilton, give that dude a mega deal all guaranteed? He has spotty character at best and money is a huge motivation to show up and give it your all. Guaranteeing all of that takes away a large part of motivation.

One could argue however that if you have a guaranteed contract you could just go out and enjoy yourself and focus on your craft without the worry of financial flexibility.
If they gave guaranteed contracts, they would have to eliminate the cap.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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I feel bad for the Browns.
Don't. Anyone who still supports the Browns clearly has no concern for themselves or their well-being, and thus deserves no sympathy from anyone.

Feel bad for us Indians fans. We're teased with greatness only to have it stolen from us every five years. It's just enough of a drug to bring people back.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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I think it'd be cool if contracts were fully guaranteed, but teams could release players and not have that money count against their cap. That way, players would gain financial security, while teams could avoid being financially handcuffed for years by mistakes like NBA teams are.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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The guaranteed money is a form of financial security. That's the whole point. The rest is earned longterm through continued production.

NFL contracts are perfect as they are.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Don't. Anyone who still supports the Browns clearly has no concern for themselves or their well-being, and thus deserves no sympathy from anyone.

Feel bad for us Indians fans. We're teased with greatness only to have it stolen from us every five years. It's just enough of a drug to bring people back.
What if they remember the 60s?!

I wonder if Brown fans ever bask in the glory of their once prestigious franchise and it's deep history.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Honestly, this makes Kluwe look just as bad as Frazier, and Spielman.

When you call your employers cowards, it doesn't make you look any better. The entire article was pretty biased in its language. Whether you like it or not, you have to be mindful of what you say publicly and how it effects your employment. That goes for everyone.

They had every right to let him go if they wanted to. They're not cowards for it. The ST coach is a giant turd, and I won't defend him in anyway.

But calling Spielman and Frazier cowards over cutting you is harsh and uncalled for. They made it clear they weren't comfortable with your public stance (and it's obvious it wasn't just the *** rights activism they were uncomfortable with as he made comments about the Pope as well), they are your bosses, and you went against direct orders and continued. Right or wrong, that's grounds for termination.

I'm all for Kluwe's cause, but his behavior doesn't make him a saint either. And he pretty much torpedoed his career by writing that article. He has no one to blame for that but himself.
I disagree. I think what Kluwe did was fine. He had the owner of the team's endorsement for speaking his mind on the matter regarding same sex marriage. And before he even started speaking his mind he went and made sure it was okay with the Vikings legal department. They said it was as long as he made it clear he was representing his stance on the matter himself, and his opinion wasn't necessarily connected to the Vikings. He's probably not going to punt in the NFL again, and he probably realized that not too long ago. Don't have an issue with him spilling the beans regarding the hypocrisy that goes on the NFL. I'm surprised that Frazier did his 180 after allegedly telling his players to be "good men" and "do the right thing". If that's true I lost some respect for the man.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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The NFL is full of middle-aged men (mostly white) that seem to disproportionately love to talk about Jesus. This should be surprising to exactly nobody. Me thinks Leslie's (ironic) attitude about discussion politics and religion doesn't extend to guys who want to proselytize about God on twitter and during press conferences, which happens about 8 billion times a year.

Zygi Wilf has been a major donator to Democratic politicians. Despite his shady business dealings, this shouldn't be a major surprise either.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. I think what Kluwe did was fine. He had the owner of the team's endorsement for speaking his mind on the matter regarding same sex marriage. And before he even started speaking his mind he went and made sure it was okay with the Vikings legal department. They said it was as long as he made it clear he was representing his stance on the matter himself, and his opinion wasn't necessarily connected to the Vikings. He's probably not going to punt in the NFL again, and he probably realized that not too long ago. Don't have an issue with him spilling the beans regarding the hypocrisy that goes on the NFL. I'm surprised that Frazier did his 180 after allegedly telling his players to be "good men" and "do the right thing". If that's true I lost some respect for the man.
The Frazier section reminds me of his former boss Tony Dungy, who is also frequently mentioned as one of the most respected men in football, but whose thoughts regarding Martin Luther King and the validity of his argument for equality apparently don't extend to his views on marriage/"cool" rights.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. I think what Kluwe did was fine. He had the owner of the team's endorsement for speaking his mind on the matter regarding same sex marriage. And before he even started speaking his mind he went and made sure it was okay with the Vikings legal department. They said it was as long as he made it clear he was representing his stance on the matter himself, and his opinion wasn't necessarily connected to the Vikings. He's probably not going to punt in the NFL again, and he probably realized that not too long ago. Don't have an issue with him spilling the beans regarding the hypocrisy that goes on the NFL. I'm surprised that Frazier did his 180 after allegedly telling his players to be "good men" and "do the right thing". If that's true I lost some respect for the man.
It's incredibly selfish.

First and foremost, he only came out with this article after he realized he can't get another punting job in the league, he has nothing to lose from it so that's why he did it. Yet the people he criticized have everything to lose. But he's ok with that, only after the fact that he realized he himself has nothing to lose. That's problem #1.

Problem #2, he's calling them cowards for not wanting to go through the difficulties of supporting his opinion and dealing with the backlash of doing so. That's selfish. I don't agree with them not supporting him, but at the same time they have every right to decide they don't want to deal with the backlash. Calling them cowards for that is incredibly hypocritical, especially coming from a guy who only published this article after he knew he was done in the league. Some would say that in itself is "cowardly"

Problem #3 is whether we like it or not, we cannot say whatever we want. Freedom of speech has it's consequences. I can't go to work and say I support X, Y and Z if I know that's going to cause the company problems. He should know better. There's consequences to actions just like he clearly stated. Yet he has the nerve to accept the consequences in some self righteous way but then turn around and call those who didn't choose to do the same and stick their necks out with him cowards? He's incredibly wrong for that.

Problem #4 was he clearly states that he thinks he was let go bc of his stance on *** marriage. But then outlines numerous times where he was told to shut up bc he was talking about the Pope. Here he contradicts himself, because the team clearly was disturbed not only bc of his stance, but his vocal opinions on other subject matters too. Its clear to me that the team just didn't want to deal with him bc he's a PR nightmare, the *** marriage stuff wasn't the only reason.

Problem #5, his attitude is apparent in this article. He's doing his own cause a disservice with his disrespectful language. That's not how you win over people.


I'm all for his cause, and I fully support his cause, but he comes off as a giant turd to me with this article.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Gus Bradley of the Jaguars and Mike Smith of the Falcons are the two coaches for the Senior Bowl. This may help their teams with drafting, as the two staffs will see the top seniors up close. It was less necessary for Bill O'Brien and the Texans staff to get the gig (whether O'Brien was hired in time or not), since their top guy is likely to be a junior -- Louisville QB Teddy Bridgewater.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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The Kluwe situation ultimately comes down to 3 things:

1. He wasn't that good.
2. He was pretty expensive for a punter.
3. His continuing to express his views was a distraction.

#1 and #2 were the main things (see Ryan Longwell getting dumped for Blair Walsh the previous season). #3 was just icing on the cake.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...or-four-years/

Bears also extended Tim Jennings and Matt Slauson for four years. Gould was given a four year extension recently.

Peppers and Melton next two guys to watch with Chicago.
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Kluwe isn't that good of a punter.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:02 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
It's incredibly selfish.

First and foremost, he only came out with this article after he realized he can't get another punting job in the league, he has nothing to lose from it so that's why he did it. Yet the people he criticized have everything to lose. But he's ok with that, only after the fact that he realized he himself has nothing to lose. That's problem #1.

Problem #2, he's calling them cowards for not wanting to go through the difficulties of supporting his opinion and dealing with the backlash of doing so. That's selfish. I don't agree with them not supporting him, but at the same time they have every right to decide they don't want to deal with the backlash. Calling them cowards for that is incredibly hypocritical, especially coming from a guy who only published this article after he knew he was done in the league. Some would say that in itself is "cowardly"

Problem #3 is whether we like it or not, we cannot say whatever we want. Freedom of speech has it's consequences. I can't go to work and say I support X, Y and Z if I know that's going to cause the company problems. He should know better. There's consequences to actions just like he clearly stated. Yet he has the nerve to accept the consequences in some self righteous way but then turn around and call those who didn't choose to do the same and stick their necks out with him cowards? He's incredibly wrong for that.

Problem #4 was he clearly states that he thinks he was let go bc of his stance on *** marriage. But then outlines numerous times where he was told to shut up bc he was talking about the Pope. Here he contradicts himself, because the team clearly was disturbed not only bc of his stance, but his vocal opinions on other subject matters too. Its clear to me that the team just didn't want to deal with him bc he's a PR nightmare, the *** marriage stuff wasn't the only reason.

Problem #5, his attitude is apparent in this article. He's doing his own cause a disservice with his disrespectful language. That's not how you win over people.


I'm all for his cause, and I fully support his cause, but he comes off as a giant turd to me with this article.
No not really. He's speaking out his mind on how he thought he was treated unfairly. He was given permission to speak his mind via the team and was endorsed by the owner of the team himself. How is it selfish to tell people that you were mistreated in your workplace if you believe it had to do with your own personal beliefs? How is exposing a goon like Priefer selfish if his behavior is anything close to what Kluwe documented? God forbid Priefer not find another opportunity in the NFL thanks to Kluwie's account. And Frazier was already fired. Kluwe mentioned that he waited until the season was over to talk about this story because he didn't want it to be a distraction to the team which he had friends on. He could have mentioned this weeks ago when he was still out of a job, but he chose not to. And he's calling Frazier a coward for being a hypocrite essentially. "Good men". "Do the right thing". What happened Frazier? Now if he the head coach had told his players from the jump that they don't talk about politics or religion in the NFL at any one point then that would be different. But if he's spouting other nonsense about having good moral character and doing what is right, and if it's okay with the Vikings legal department for Kluwe to support *** marriage, okay with the owner, then why is Fraizer dropping the hammer? Yeah sure we can't say whatever we want and get away with it, but the problem with that logic is that it isn't consistent in our society. If a reporter asked Kluwie, or any other player out of the blue if he didn't like people of Russian heritage and he simply said "Sorry we don't talk about that in the work place or in public" then that player is suddenly the bad guy. Neither confirming nor denying is always accepted. By the way if Kluwe wasn't that good they should have just cut the cord way before they did instead of going dead silent for a significant period of time. If you think he is a distraction, expensive, and just not that good then get rid of him. Don't wait forever.

Anyways, that is just my two cents. I was fine with what Kluwe wrote and glad he exposed some of the goons that hide behind the shield.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:04 PM    (permalink
Grizzlegom
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Originally Posted by Raiderz4Life View Post
Yeah Kluwe isn't that good of a punter.
C'mon, he'd clearly have better numbers if his coaches weren't telling him to reel it in because their coverage team sucks!
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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I side with BBD because he broke it up into nice, neat, easy to read segments instead of a wall of text.

Also because I think he is right. So is R4L and Vikings4ever.
#1 reason he got das boot is because his boot wasn't that good.
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
No not really. He's speaking out his mind on how he thought he was treated unfairly. He was given permission to speak his mind via the team and was endorsed by the owner of the team himself. How is it selfish to tell people that you were mistreated in your workplace if you believe it had to do with your own personal beliefs? How is exposing a goon like Priefer selfish if his behavior is anything close to what Kluwe documented? God forbid Priefer not find another opportunity in the NFL thanks to Kluwie's account. And Frazier was already fired. Kluwe mentioned that he waited until the season was over to talk about this story because he didn't want it to be a distraction to the team which he had friends on. He could have mentioned this weeks ago when he was still out of a job, but he chose not to. And he's calling Frazier a coward for being a hypocrite essentially. "Good men". "Do the right thing". What happened Frazier? Now if he the head coach had told his players from the jump that they don't talk about politics or religion in the NFL at any one point then that would be different. But if he's spouting other nonsense about having good moral character and doing what is right, and if it's okay with the Vikings legal department for Kluwe to support *** marriage, okay with the owner, then why is Fraizer dropping the hammer? Yeah sure we can't say whatever we want and get away with it, but the problem with that logic is that it isn't consistent in our society. If a reporter asked Kluwie, or any other player out of the blue if he didn't like people of Russian heritage and he simply said "Sorry we don't talk about that in the work place or in public" then that player is suddenly the bad guy. Neither confirming nor denying is always accepted. By the way if Kluwe wasn't that good they should have just cut the cord way before they did instead of going dead silent for a significant period of time. If you think he is a distraction, expensive, and just not that good then get rid of him. Don't wait forever.

Anyways, that is just my two cents. I was fine with what Kluwe wrote and glad he exposed some of the goons that hide behind the shield.
You know Ness, just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this.....AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Well, on Cutler we overpaid AND we got a hometown discount. He would have had multiple offers for 20 a year had he hit free agency. He's not worth it, but that's the market. Too many teams have hot garbage at the QB position and he's a little above average. I AM anxious to see the guaranteed money structure. I hope it's such that he can be cut after the first three years if need be, like maybe no signing bonus, but all three of the first years just being flat-out guaranteed, maybe.

We had 47 starter changes at the QB position between average Jim McMahon and slightly above average Jay Cutler. I don't miss that one bit.

I think a decent team can win it all with Jake Utler. Had the modern version of him been our QB in 05 or 06, we'd have at least one ring to show for it. This year is the first year he's had what I would call a good corps of receiving targets. The OL is still not so great, but it's the best one he's had since coming to Chicago. The PPG we scored in his starts is enough to win a lot of games with even an average defense.

It's crazy, but the only team that scored more points than us this year was Denver.

...and Cutler did have the highest fourth quarter QB rating in the NFL, so that's something.


My biggest concern is his health. I know he's gotten hit too much, but he's always dinged up. He's had five concussions, I think.

I admit that I'm kind of sad about one thing: I really wanted to take a spin on the QB wheel of fortune in the draft this season. There are a few guys in this draft that I think are NFL starters...but our defense is putrid. We really do need all of our early picks to fix that, so this is what had to happen.

I'm glad to have Jennings and Slauson back. Jennings was the best member of the secondary last season and Slauson was the best on the O line. You can kiss Tillman goodbye with that signing, and I'm ok with that. He's done.

njx, if you guys hadn't landed the biggest free agent to ever hit free agency, you'd probably be speaking wistfully of Jay Cutler right now.

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Why is that? Palmer and Cutler are basically the same thing.
This is what 51 was talking about. This is clearly hyperbolic. I don't think there's a living AZ fan that would rather have Palmer, and I'm not even a Palmer hater.
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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The Bears signed Cutler in part because of the lack of other options.

There are like 9 teams drafting in front of them with a need at QB and no veteran QB upgrades available.

They were a blown coverage away from playing this weekend. The Bears need to fix that historically pathetic defense and get healthy. They can absolutely win with Cutler at the helm as long as Trestman is the coach and the defense improves.
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