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Old 07-19-2011, 11:19 PM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Default Double leg amputee to run in 2012 Olympics???

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/14212248.stm


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Oscar Pistorius has run the 400m qualifying time for both August's World Championships and the 2012 Olympics.

The South African double amputee, who runs on carbon fibre legs, clocked 45.07 seconds in Italy.

Pistorius, known as 'Blade Runner', was 0.18 seconds inside the 'A standard' time and could now be selected by South Africa for the London Olympics.

The 24-year-old was cleared to compete against able-bodied athletes in 2008 after a lengthy legal battle.

Pistorius is only in contention to compete at the highest level of the sport after the Court of Arbitration for Sport (Cas) overturned an IAAF ruling that his prosthetic limbs gave him an unfair advantage in May 2008.

Five months earlier a study commissioned by the IAAF, which compared Pistorius with six able-bodied athletes capable of similar performance, had claimed that Pistorious's blades required him to use 25% less energy than his rivals to run at the same speed.

Pistorius had argued that he was running at a disadvantage, with less blood in his body and no calf muscles.

Cas concluded that the evidence was inconclusive and cleared him to run.
I think this is a really interesting thing to happen.

Sure it's a great story about overcoming hardship and all, but how can a study show that you use 25% less energy than able bodied athletes yet you are still allowed to compete in the Olympics. I know if I was the guy left out of the South African squad for him I would be seeking some serious legal advice.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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This has been a huge issue in the professional running world (it's our Team Edward v. Team Jacob). I'm not a fan of letting him run, great ESPN 30 for 30 (what if I were to tell you....having no legs could equal World Championship Glory in Daegu? Kyle DeVan directs "Blades Of Glory - The Pistorious Story) but it's been proven he has a slight advantage.

Also he has no chance at medalling with Wariner (even a declining one), McQuay, Jackson, etc. and the rest of America in the 400m.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:35 PM    (permalink
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Letting guys with metal legs run really? How about get the guy from Grandmas Boy running when he gets his metal legs. The legs he uses are built more like an animals than a humans. It is a great story but he should not be able to compete in the olympics or world champonships.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:41 PM    (permalink
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What is also very suspicious is his drop-off in time. This guy a few weeks ago had a PR of 45.62 I think. At the most previous meet (a few days ago), he ran a 46.6x.

It's a tremendous leap in performance mid-season and still before where he wants to peak at Daegu. Something isn't adding up. I know he got a better lane assignment but still.
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Old 07-19-2011, 11:52 PM    (permalink
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I will preface this by saying that I am not in any way knowledgable about track and field, but I don't like this at all. Maybe I'm a cynical asshole, but I just think you are fundamentally changing the sport. If enough disabled runners post adequate qualifying times I don't even necessarily have a problem adding their own race to the Games (this is of course in theory as it would open a whole nother can of worms).
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Get the bone saws ready. Time to start cutting guys legs off.

I mean, 25% less energy required would be huge.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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Well if people ever specifically created artificial legs to improve their times over a traditional runner then this ruling would have to be overturned by the language in that quote.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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This type of debate has been happening recently in regards to NCAA Wrestling Champion Anthony Robles as well.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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Also, if these prosthetics gave such an advantage, you'd think other amputees would be having similar success. Not only is his success unheard of but he annihilated all of his paralympic-competition.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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Poor lil tink tink...aint that a *****...poor lil tink tink
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
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Also, if these prosthetics gave such an advantage, you'd think other amputees would be having similar success. Not only is his success unheard of but he annihilated all of his paralympic-competition.
It's a way smaller pool of people.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Also, if these prosthetics gave such an advantage, you'd think other amputees would be having similar success. Not only is his success unheard of but he annihilated all of his paralympic-competition.
I'm pretty sure he's the only one using the Carbon fibre "blades". But also, not sure. Contradictions!

His PRs are ridiculous. His big disadvantage is starting (hard to start moving without legs) but he's run just under 11.0 for the 100m, 21.xx and now low-45s. That doesn't make sense at all. If he ran an 800? He'd be unstoppable, no one could keep up with him the last 300m or so.

It's a huge advantage in the 400m and up to have blades instead of legs.
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Old 07-20-2011, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty sure he's the only one using the Carbon fibre "blades". But also, not sure. Contradictions!

His PRs are ridiculous. His big disadvantage is starting (hard to start moving without legs) but he's run just under 11.0 for the 100m, 21.xx and now low-45s. That doesn't make sense at all. If he ran an 800? He'd be unstoppable, no one could keep up with him the last 300m or so.

It's a huge advantage in the 400m and up to have blades instead of legs.
I'm not arguing the "possibility" of advantage, but if it were simply about "the blades" why aren't there more para-athletes who use them putting up the numbers he is?

Anthony Robles' was tremendously stronger than his opponents (same weight yet he didn't have a leg) and his opponents had one less limb to secure in their grappling techniques. He was an NCAA Champion.

You can argue advantage versus disadvatntage all day but I will never say that it is becoming "easier" for an amputee than for a wholly-limbed athlete.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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I'm not arguing the "possibility" of advantage, but if it were simply about "the blades" why aren't there more para-athletes who use them putting up the numbers he is?

Anthony Robles' was tremendously stronger than his opponents (same weight yet he didn't have a leg) and his opponents had one less limb to secure in their grappling techniques. He was an NCAA Champion.

You can argue advantage versus disadvatntage all day but I will never say that it is becoming "easier" for an amputee than for a wholly-limbed athlete.
I looked it up. He was the only paraolympian to have two missing legs. The other guys had 1 "blade-leg" and another flesh and bone one. One leg gets tired, the other doesn't; simply put they use more energy.

I won't argue Robles but Pistorius is an easy case. He works hard, I won't doubt that but he has a manmade advantage. For the record, I never said "easier"; I say in terms of running a 400m race; Oscar P. has a built-in advantage over Warnier, McQuay, etc.

It's a good human interest story, but it is unfair. That's my argument. You don't agree with that, fine.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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This has been a huge issue in the professional running world (it's our Team Edward v. Team Jacob).
ummm... how dare you. this is serious, but it's no edward v. jacob

also, i am in agreement that it's an advantage, albeit an odd one.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't disagree with you in how you're approaching it. I completely agree that he has no musculature fatigue in his lower legs. However, has their been analysis to see if he has a higher level of musculature fatigue in his upper legs simply having to use the prosthesis?

If there is, and it's at all similar to the amount of "advantage" he has, then it should be considered relative.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:41 PM    (permalink
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This type of debate has been happening recently in regards to NCAA Wrestling Champion Anthony Robles as well.
Wouldnt it be harder for Robles to keep good balance without one leg than it would be for the other opponent that had one less leg to grab?
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't disagree with you in how you're approaching it. I completely agree that he has no musculature fatigue in his lower legs. However, has their been analysis to see if he has a higher level of musculature fatigue in his upper legs simply having to use the prosthesis?

If there is, and it's at all similar to the amount of "advantage" he has, then it should be considered relative.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007...gineering.html

There were plenty of scientific evidence that showed the benefit he got. There are also some other things like Pistorius could never have common running injuries like shin splints, Achilles strains, etc. though that's relatively unfair. The IAAF agreed that he should be banned but the CAS intervened and the IAAF caved in from public pressure, etc.
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