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Old 08-31-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Can you imagine if Sayers stayed healthy his whole career though? He could have been the best offensive player in NFL history. He was that good in his prime.
I think Mr. Bo Jackson might have given him a run for his money.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
Or if Sayers, like Barry Sanders 25 years later, had been on a better team. Sayers was 1st team All-Pro on a 1-13 Bears team in 1969 which also featured Dick Butkus.
The other twenty starters for that team had to have been the worst football players in NFL history.

It's like putting Tom Brady and Ray Lewis on the same team and only winning one game.
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Old 08-31-2011, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Sayer was just a different animal in his time. It was just a different era, and guys like Sayers just weren't around. He was so unique and special that his little time in the NFL was enough for him to get to the HoF in that era. If he played now and had the same effect in a short career, he probably wouldn't make the Hall. His abilities were just so new and unique in his time.
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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The prelim list for the 2012 modern era candidates has just been released this afternoon.

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshri...class-of-2012/

Running back Tiki Barber, quarterback Drew Bledsoe, wide receiver Keyshawn Johnson, guard Will Shields, and coaches Bill Cowher, Bill Parcells, and Marty Schottenheimer are among the 11 first-year eligible modern-era candidates for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Class of 2012. The preliminary list includes 71 players, 14 coaches and 18 contributors.

From that list of nominees, the Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee will choose 25 candidates who will advance as semifinalist nominees. The list of 25 semifinalists will be announced in mid-November.

The list of 25 semifinalists will be further reduced by a mail ballot to 15 modern-era finalists and announced in early January.

The final list of nominees that will be considered for election will consist of the 15 modern-era finalists and the two senior nominees, former Pittsburgh Steelers defensive back Jack Butler and former Detroit Lions guard Dick Stanfel, who were selected this last month by the Hall of Fame’s Senior Selection Committee.
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to the HOF Jack Butler and Dick Stanfel.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Sayers, even per game when healthy really doesn't approach "best offensive player of all time" type numbers.

His 22 TDs weren't in 10 games either, it was 14.
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Old 09-28-2011, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to the HOF Jack Butler and Dick Stanfel.
As one of the founders of B.L.E.S.T.O. and one of the pioneers of modern scouting, Butler absolutely should be in the HoF.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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When I was in college I spent a summer interning at the Pro Football Hall of Fame working mostly through their library, but also doing a little work on the history of the selection process.

In spite of this, I don't have the sterling record at predicting enshrinement classes to the degree that I'd like. Nonetheless, here's my shot at predicting the top 5 players to get in next year (the last two spots are almost always the senior voters' representatives, which has basically become a lock for enshrinement).

This should be an interesting class because there don't look to be any first ballot guys (Will Shields and Bill Parcells having the only real chance), freeing up room to clear up the current logjam.

1) Willie Roaf- Tackle- 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-2005 Kansas City Chiefs

Roaf didn't make it in his first year of eligibility, but it's only a matter of time. He was on the all 90's and 00's team (an almost lock for selection), and was arguably the best tackle of his era.

2) Dermontti Dawson- Center- 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers

The HOF hasn't selected a center since 1998, and only two centers in the modern era have been selected (Mike Webster, Dwight Stevenson), but if I were to make a list of all-time great centers, Dawson would be 2nd or 3rd of all-time. He was a semi-finalist the last two years, he'll make it soon.

3) Chris Doleman- Defensive End/Linebacker- 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-1998 San Francisco 49'ers

Am I just trolling the Cris Carter supporters? I'm really not. The more people you listen to, the less surprised they are that Carter hasn't been inducted yet, and the less confident they are he will be next year either. Taking his spot as a token Viking, Chris Doleman is a really underrated player with 8 Pro Bowls, and more importantly 5 times All-Pro selection and induction on the all 90's team. Doleman is fourth all-time in sacks, ahead of Richard Dent. Cris Carter will get in eventually, but it looks like there is a wait on receivers.

4) Curtis Martin- Runningback- 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets

It's either him or Bettis, but I don't think both, not yet anyway. Martin is 4th overall, while Bettis is 5th. And although Bettis won the Superbowl, it's uncommon they vote in two players from the same team in one class. Dawson deserves to go first, and has been waiting longer.

5) Cortez Kennedy- Defensive Tackle- 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks

Kennedy was always unnoticed being on some bad Seahawks team in a corner of the country most people are unaware exists. But he was a dominant presence on the d-line, compiled great numbers, and won a defensive MVP (and was another all 90's player).

Still have to wait another year: Cris Carter, Will Shields, Jerome Bettis, Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Charles Haley, Bill Parcells, Bill Cowher


The best case I can make for Carter or Bettis this year is that the HOF would be concerned that my class above would be too "boring."
I'd like to take this opportunity to thank myself.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:14 PM    (permalink
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Well you did leave off one, so I will create an entirely new thread to call you out on that!
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DraftSavant View Post
Branch isn't considered modern-era? He retired in 85.
Senior committee is for those who retired 25 years ago or more. Cliff's last eligibility for regular nomination would have been 2009 if my math is right.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Charles Haley needs to smack some writers in the face with his dick.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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**** the Curtis Martin selection. The consensus when he retired was "maybe this guy will get in on the Senior Committee one day" or "very good player but not a hall of famer" and he gets in on his second year? What the ****?
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Senior committee is for those who retired 25 years ago or more. Cliff's last eligibility for regular nomination would have been 2009 if my math is right.
Ahhh, gotcha.

Still a huge snub!
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Why no love for wide receivers man? All 3 of those guys (Reed, Carter, and Brown) deserve it over Martin. Sure, Reed had Jim Kelly throwing it to him, sure Tim Brown had some good QBs if I recall correctly, and Carter had well um Randall Cunningham for a couple years or so, but at least in Carter's and Brown's case they still produced when their QBs changed. I don't get it man. I don't get it.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Also, Tony Boselli dies a little inside every time one of these LTs makes it to the HoF.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Randy Gene Moss better make it his 1st time.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:52 PM    (permalink
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Why no love for wide receivers man? All 3 of those guys (Reed, Carter, and Brown) deserve it over Martin. Sure, Reed had Jim Kelly throwing it to him, sure Tim Brown had some good QBs if I recall correctly, and Carter had well um Randall Cunningham for a couple years or so, but at least in Carter's and Brown's case they still produced when their QBs changed. I don't get it man. I don't get it.
Meh...if you didn't win Superbowls, everybody just views those 90s WRs as the same. Everyone was putting up videogame numbers at WR.

I mean...look at this ridiculous ****. 9 guys w/over 100 receptions. #10 had 99.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

I'm totally pissed about Martin getting in, too, but not because some WRs didn't get in. Positions like OL and DB are still sooo underrepresented in the HoF.

**** wide receivers.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:02 PM    (permalink
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Meh...if you didn't win Superbowls, everybody just views those 90s WRs as the same. Everyone was putting up videogame numbers at WR.

I mean...look at this ridiculous ****. 9 guys w/over 100 receptions. #10 had 99.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...true&Submit=Go

I'm totally pissed about Martin getting in, too, but not because some WRs didn't get in. Positions like OL and DB are still sooo underrepresented in the HoF.

**** wide receivers.
Cris Carter is #2 in receptions and TDs. He is only #2 because of this one Rice guy. For Reed and the other 2 Bills who are firmly in the Hall of Fame, name me one other team to make it to back to back to back to back Super Bowls in history. And Tim Brown when he retired was #3 to Rice and Carter. So if ur talking all time guys, I think these guys all have a chance.

And yeah, on ur other point I agree man. There are some other non position players that deserve to be in over Martin, so yeah they are underrepresented and I agree with ya.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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You're essentially arguing that Cris Carter and Tim Brown are the Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis of WRs. :shrug:

When I think of any of those players, I don't think "HOF." I dunno.

From that era, I think it's very solidly Rice (who is a tier above everyone), then Irvin, Bruce, and Sterling Sharpe on another tier (and you could probably convince me on Tim Brown for this tier, too, but he played on mostly terrible teams for his career), and then everyone else (Carter, Reed, Herman Moore, etc).

Just me, though. Then again, I wasn't one of those people up in arms when Art Monk got passed on year after year, either.

I think I mostly just don't care about WRs.

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Old 02-04-2012, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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You're essentially arguing that Cris Carter is the Curtis Martin of WRs.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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arter is #4 in re eptions and TDs.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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I love this quote and I love you.
Ur a *****.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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I need to stop ninja editing.
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Old 02-04-2012, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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Wow Carters gets shafted again. Unreal.
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