Hall of Fame 2012 class

[DraftSavant]

Originally Posted by boknows34

His postseason resume might be enough to get him over the line in the eyes of some voters.

17 games
88 catches
1,181 yds
10 TDs
Super Bowl MVP
2 Super Bowl rings

I can see Ward making it but only after a long wait and an Art Monk style campaign.

Ward's a guy I've been thinking long and hard about for the last year or so. If you'd have asked me three or for years ago, I would have said "no" resoundingly.

Right now, though, he's solidly in the top 5 of all major postseason receiving categories. He's had many, many big games for the Steelers in crunchtime. Superbowl MVP. After awhile, everything adds up and becomes too much to ignore. I'd much rather see a guy like Ward voted in as opposed to a regular season compiler who never did crap in the playoffs like Bettis.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by njx9

there is nothing that sets corey dillon apart from running backs like fred taylor, warrick dunn, tiki barber, eddie george, thomas jones or shaun alexander. none of whom should ever even sniff the hall of fame.

I think that is a pretty big generalization. Next to Tiki Barber, who if he finished his career and wasn't such a massive tool probably would have made it, Dillon had the best career out of the bunch. George was forced the rock, Dunn had 3 good seasons and like 10 average ones, and Shawn Alexander wasn't dominant long enough. Fred Taylor had zero big moments over his career which hurts his candidacy. Dillon does have a SB ring (which does play a minor factor), and for a while held the single game record for rushing yards. I think people forget just how physical a runner Dillon was. He ran hard like Peterson without quite as much breakaway speed. Had he played on some better teams a lot of his 1200yd 7td seasons would be 1400yd 10td type seasons. He was relatively consistent for an 8 year stretch before declining.

Cincinnati is just a terrible organization to play for. For most of his career they had atrocious QB, and teams could stack the box. Once they fell behind they had to abandon the running game. I don't think he'll make it, but if he was put in a somewhat functional organization I think he'd definitely get a bust in Canton.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by njx9

corey dillon deserves to go to the hall for putting up with the bengals and getting a ring, in spite of the fact that he wasn't one of the best running backs in the nfl for more than a season or so of his entire career?

meh, **** it. it's not like making it in actually has anything to do with having been one of the best players ever anymore (see: irvin, michael). might as well just induct everyone who played for the patriots from 2000-2004.

You could say the same thing about Curtis Martin...who actually didn't get a ring. How many years was he considered the absolute best at his position? Maybe two years out of his entire career? Dillon also has 89 touchdowns in ten years...that's pretty good with most of them coming with Cincinnati.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by njx9

there is nothing that sets corey dillon apart from running backs like fred taylor, warrick dunn, tiki barber, eddie george, thomas jones or shaun alexander. none of whom should ever even sniff the hall of fame.

You're kidding me. Dillon was a lot more consistent than a lot of those players. He has a boatload more touchdowns than Tiki Barber. He didn't have the injury problems that Fred Taylor had (plus he has a lot more touchdowns as well), had way more consistent and dominant seasons than Dunn in terms of yards and touchdowns (Dunn shouldn't even be in the conversation with everyone else you mentioned), trumps Thomas Jones in touchdowns and yardage while playing for only ten years, and beats George again in touchdowns. The only other guy that really has Dillon outgunned is Alexander. But he loses in yardage while he beats Dillon for touchdowns. Actually I'd probably give Dillon the edge because of not only yards, but he also has a ring...and he was still a threat up until he left the game.

I'll meet you halfway and say Dillon should at least be in the conversation.

[Philliez01]

Originally Posted by Ness

You're kidding me. Dillon was a lot more consistent than a lot of those players. He has a boatload more touchdowns than Tiki Barber. He didn't have the injury problems that Fred Taylor had (plus he has a lot more touchdowns as well), had way more consistent and dominant seasons than Dunn in terms of yards and touchdowns (Dunn shouldn't even be in the conversation with everyone else you mentioned), trumps Thomas Jones in touchdowns and yardage while playing for only ten years, and beats George again in touchdowns. The only other guy that really has Dillon outgunned is Alexander. But he loses in yardage while he beats Dillon for touchdowns. Actually I'd probably give Dillon the edge because of not only yards, but he also has a ring...and he was still a threat up until he left the game.

I'll meet you halfway and say Dillon should at least be in the conversation.

Corey Dillon was a good/very good player. He was never dominant, always very good.

I don't think rings are as helpful for someone's cause unless it's a QB or coach honestly.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Philliez01

Corey Dillon was a good/very good player. He was never dominant, always very good.

I don't think rings are as helpful for someone's cause unless it's a QB or coach honestly.

Oh I disagree. Especially in 2004.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Ness

You could say the same thing about Curtis Martin...who actually didn't get a ring. How many years was he considered the absolute best at his position? Maybe two years out of his entire career? Dillon also has 89 touchdowns in ten years...that's pretty good with most of them coming with Cincinnati.

i frequently say the same thing about curtis martin. i think it's a joke that he's going to get in based solely on having played forever.

Originally Posted by Ness

You're kidding me. Dillon was a lot more consistent than a lot of those players. He has a boatload more touchdowns than Tiki Barber. He didn't have the injury problems that Fred Taylor had (plus he has a lot more touchdowns as well), had way more consistent and dominant seasons than Dunn in terms of yards and touchdowns (Dunn shouldn't even be in the conversation with everyone else you mentioned), trumps Thomas Jones in touchdowns and yardage while playing for only ten years, and beats George again in touchdowns. The only other guy that really has Dillon outgunned is Alexander. But he loses in yardage while he beats Dillon for touchdowns. Actually I'd probably give Dillon the edge because of not only yards, but he also has a ring...and he was still a threat up until he left the game.

I'll meet you halfway and say Dillon should at least be in the conversation.

i don't think there should be a conversation. about any of those guys. i don't care that dillon scored ~8 touchdowns a season. that's not ground-breaking. that's what a good running back should be doing.

just so we're clear, it's not that i don't think corey dillon was a bad running back. but he's nowhere near the kind of player that ought to be getting into canton. he was a *good* player. he was *never* at any point in his career an *elite* player. even in his best season, he was no better than 3rd in yardage, 9th in scoring (from RBs) and had the 4th highest ypc of anyone with at least 200 carries. he was never a receiving threat. he was a great addition to one of the best teams in the nfl (well, in 2004 they *were* the best). but that shouldn't be a hall of fame career, and no part of it suggests that there should be further discussion beyond 'no'.

especially when the counter argument seems to be that he had a high (but not great) number of career rushing yards (that, ultimately, put him in the exact same company as every guy i mentioned), and he had some touchdowns (but still not as many as shaun alexander, who's certainly not in any hall of fame conversation). he was a good player. but he wasn't anything more than that.

[Saints-Tigers]

It's so dumb that people like Dillon will get consideration over Steve Atwater, or the upcoming safeties.

You really think Dillon was comparable to top RBs like Atwater, Reed, Dawkins, Easley etc are for safeties?

[Nalej]

C.Dillon > C.Martin

He did break Walter Peyton's single game rushing record.
Well, he was the first to do it.

[bearsfan_51]

I hope you all realize that while you can debate the merits of Dillon in the HOF, there is zero chance it happens.

[Nalej]

Oh, I'm completely aware of this.
Also the point that S.Atwater should be in before he and C.Martin

[Complex]

What do you guys think of Jamal Lewis chances of getting into the HOF?

[bearsfan_51]

Small, but possible. He's really helped by the fact that he made the all-2000's team. (these things are really important to voters).

I'd put Lewis a little higher than Dillon. I shouldn't have said Dillon has no chance, but I think it's probably less than 5%, and I would put Lewis at about 10%. As njx said, if Dillon gets in then you're talking about guys like Fred Taylor, Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn, and Eddie George as possibilities too.

Of all of those guys, I think Lewis has the best chance due to his 2000+ yard season (the others on the list are O.J. Simpson, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and Chris Johnson). Injuries ruined Davis' shot, the other three are already in the HOF, and Johnson is the best runningback currently in the league.

I'm torn on his actual chances, but I'd personally vote no.

[niel89]

Originally Posted by Complex

What do you guys think of Jamal Lewis chances of getting into the HOF?

Pretty low. He was an amazing runner though. His 2000 yard year was crazy.

[Nalej]

^^^ yea, but wasn't about 400+ yds off the Browns though lol
Poor bastards

[Ravens1991]

I never saw Kevin Greene play, but I always wondered why isnt he in the HOF? Isnt he 3rd all time with sacks

[Complex]

I would like to add that Lewis did help the Ravens win the superbowl.

[Nalej]

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

I never saw Kevin Greene play, but I always wondered why isn't he in the HOF? Isn't he 3rd all time with sacks

Same here. I think I saw him towards the end of his career with Carolina
but I honestly can't recall anything about him....
A quick google search says he beasted from a sack POV but I didn't see much of him though

[DraftSavant]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I hope you all realize that while you can debate the merits of Dillon in the HOF, there is zero chance it happens.

It took this long?

[BigBanger]

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

I never saw Kevin Greene play, but I always wondered why isnt he in the HOF? Isnt he 3rd all time with sacks

I like Kevin Greene a lot, but when he played with Pittsburgh, there was no question that Greg Lloyd was the best OLB on that team if you ask me. And if you look at sack numbers, that would be hard to believe since Lloyd didn't have 10 sack seasons like Greene put up year in and year out.

If Lloyd wasn't such an asshole to the media, didn't stick handguns into his son and wife's mouth, then he might get Hall of Fame talk. He was a phenomenal athlete.

Greene bounced around a lot and played for a bunch of different teams. I'm not sure what team he would go in for when he gets inducted, which will happen eventually. He was most recognized for his tenure in Pittsburgh (where he was apart of one of the great LB groups in NFL history), but was only there for three years.

Greene was also playing in the NFL with guys like Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, Derrick Thomas who rushed the passer and were, simply put, better players. So he tends to get overlooked.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I hope you all realize that while you can debate the merits of Dillon in the HOF, there is zero chance it happens.

I'd say his chances should be just about as good as Martin's. I'd probably put Martin a little higher, but not that high. I can't recall many years where he was arguably the best at this position. This hurts Dillon too, but I think the fact that Dillon was still a consistent back like Martin, durable, has a lot of yards and touchdowns plus a Super Bowl rings, helps his case.

I'm definitely putting Dillon ahead of the likes of George, Taylor, Barber, and Warrick Dunn (can't believe someone tried to compared Dillon to Dunn).

[Ness]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Small, but possible. He's really helped by the fact that he made the all-2000's team. (these things are really important to voters).

I'd put Lewis a little higher than Dillon. I shouldn't have said Dillon has no chance, but I think it's probably less than 5%, and I would put Lewis at about 10%. As njx said, if Dillon gets in then you're talking about guys like Fred Taylor, Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn, and Eddie George as possibilities too.

Of all of those guys, I think Lewis has the best chance due to his 2000+ yard season (the others on the list are O.J. Simpson, Eric Dickerson, Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, and Chris Johnson). Injuries ruined Davis' shot, the other three are already in the HOF, and Johnson is the best runningback currently in the league.

I'm torn on his actual chances, but I'd personally vote no.

Oh come on. Lewis has 10,000 yards sure, but really had one dominant season. He's only made one Pro Bowl Bowl and All-Pro, and doesn't have close the amount of touchdowns Dillion got in ten years.

[Pat Sims 90]

Dillon also played on some really ****** teams compared to what Martin and Lewis had.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Pat Sims 90

Dillon also played on some really ****** teams compared to what Martin and Lewis had.

Dillon played on some of the worst teams imaginable.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Ness

I'm definitely putting Dillon ahead of the likes of George, Taylor, Barber, and Warrick Dunn (can't believe someone tried to compared Dillon to Dunn).

yes, that was me. a couple of posts ago. because you were going on and on about yardage and dunn is very comparable in that regard (though i'm sure 300 yards makes all the difference in the world). funny enough, neither were ever among the best players at their position for the period of time they played. neither is getting into the hall. further, dunn was actually a receiving threat. dillon was a 4time pro-bowler, dunn was a 3-time. neither had an all-pro. boy, they DO sound fairly comparable in this discussion, come to think of it. keep on thinking that being the #4 all-time rusher with an all-pro is about the same as being the #17 all time leading rusher without, though. no doubt, dillon is just on the cusp.

and just for the **** of it, guess how many running backs are in the hall of fame without a single all-pro?