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Old 08-20-2011, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Let's not let Davis or Dillon in and call it a day.
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Yes. And the same goes for Holmes.
Done. Moving on.
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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The hall of fame should only be for players who changed the league and are some of the greatest of all time. If you are the greatest from your team then you belong in their ring of honor.
Yeah, that's never going to happen. If that was the case, the HOF would induct one player every decade, and nobody would ever go.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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If Corey Dillon had the same career for one the NFL's gold standard franchises, like the Giants or Dolphins, I think he'd be serious HOF candidate.

It's like people sort of forgot how great a RB he was until he went to the Pats.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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If Corey Dillon had the same career for one the NFL's gold standard franchises, like the Giants or Dolphins, I think he'd be serious HOF candidate.

It's like people sort of forgot how great a RB he was until he went to the Pats.
I don't think a lot of people actually knew who he was until he went to New England.
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Old 08-22-2011, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I don't think a lot of people actually knew who he was until he went to New England.
I'd guarantee that 90% of people didn't know who he was until his 278 yard game against the Broncos.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I'll just say that while I don't think Dillon is getting in, I do believe that he should at least be talked about. I definitely put him higher than the likes of George, Taylor, and Warrick Dunn.
Pretty much this. He may have only had a few big moments, but he's a Top 20 RB of All-Time both by performance as well as by pure numbers. When a guy has numbers like that, he's got to be considered.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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And Martin was consistently a top 2-5 runningback. It's not like Martin ever played with an elite QB (Bledsoe, Testaverde, Chad Pennington) or elite offensive lines, but he always put up great numbers, and was on some winning ball clubs (making a Superbowl, which is more than Carter's teams had done).

I don't necessarily think Martin is a better player than Carter, I think they are quite similar, I just think Martin is more likely to get in sooner.

If there's a player Carter is likely to replace on that list, it's Chris Doleman.
Wait.

You just put Bledsoe, Testeverde, and Pennington in their respective primes in the "not elite" category? WTF?
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Wait.

You just put Bledsoe, Testeverde, and Pennington in their respective primes in the "not elite" category? WTF?
Not sure if serious.
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:47 AM    (permalink
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Was Curtis Martin ever considered a top three running back at his position? I think you can make a case for Reed being a top three player at his position at some point during his career. It's all subjective.

1989,1991 and 1994 were the only years he may have been one of the best receivers. Other then those years he was a pretty ordinary wr. Do you really want to elect someone who never lead the NFL in any category and only passed 1000 yards 4 times?

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Old 08-31-2011, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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Nevermind you fixed it.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:14 AM    (permalink
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1989,1991 and 1994 were the only years he may have been one of the best receivers. Other then those years he was a pretty ordinary wr. Do you really want to elect someone who never lead the NFL in any category and only passed 1000 yards 4 times?
Well statistics are a hard thing to just go by. If you watched him back then you may have a different opinion about him. Reed came through when he was needed, was great in the YAC department, and was a decent deep threat. Art Monk only went over the 1,000 yard mark 5 times is was only elected to the Pro Bowl three times out of a 16 year career. He led the NFL in receptions once. But the way he played the game and for those who actually saw him probably has something to do with why he is in today.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:01 AM    (permalink
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The Terrell Davis debate is one that I haven't picked a side on yet. The guy was absolutely dominant but his career was cut so short. But should we penalize him for that? Afterall, he was a running back. And in his prime, the guy was one of the best RBs of all time.

This is a tough one for me.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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The Terrell Davis debate is one that I haven't picked a side on yet. The guy was absolutely dominant but his career was cut so short. But should we penalize him for that? Afterall, he was a running back. And in his prime, the guy was one of the best RBs of all time.

This is a tough one for me.
I think you have to. What settles it for me is the fact that a lot of his yards came from his linemen chop-blocking people.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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I think you have to. What settles it for me is the fact that a lot of his yards came from his linemen chop-blocking people.
But he wasn't the first and wasn't the last RB who ran in that system. He was easily the best though.

In his prime, he was just as feared as Adrian Peterson. I don't think that's an exaggeration either.

If you put a gun to my head, I say exclude him. But the man was absolutely dominant during his short prime. The sweep to TD was almost unstoppable at one point.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Yeah I think that's an exaggeration. Davis was never punishing like Peterson, and Davis had a ton more talent around him than Peterson.

Also, if Peterson quit the NFL today, would he make the HOF? No. Not even a chance.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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TD was running for 1800 yards in a season while sitting out the entire 4th quarter almost every game one year.

How was he not as dominant? He was sick. But yeah, the career was just too short.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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He was statistically dominant, but I was responding to your statement that he was "feared" like Peterson, who guys would literally shy away from tackling for his first few years in the league because he was such a brutal runner. Davis never got that kind of treatment, and he never saw 8 in the box consistently like Peterson does.

I'm not saying Peterson is better, but he's certainly more physically dominant.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Ok, I can agree with that. TD could truck people too though. Let's not sell him short. I remember him putting the hit stick on people.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Don't say Terrell Davis has NO shot at the HOF.

You see the guys who the Veteran's Committee are selecting for Canton??
Would anyone be upset or surprised to see a 70+ year old Davis hobbling up to the podium in 30 years to accept his yellow jacket and HOF bust???

Because Davis' career at one point was incandescent white hot and the reason why many believe Elway finally got his SB ring(s), don't forget playing with a migraine so severe in the SB that he couldn't see(!), there's going to be a case to be made for Terrell Davis.

If I had to bet MY money, I'd say Terrell Davis is more likely than not to make the HOF, one day.

Different eras I know, but if there's room in the Hall for Gale Sayers, IMO there should be room for Terrell Davis.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Sayers belongs in the HOF either, and I'm a Bears fan. That said, Sayers > Davis.

Sayers was 1st team all pro every year he was in the league. He scored 22 touchdowns as a rookie at a time when a season was 10 games. He was the greatest return-man of all time before Devin Hester.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Not saying Sayers is better or worse than Terrell Davis, only making the case there are precedents for players who achieved brilliance in tragically short careers to be inducted into the HOF.

I think most football fans believe if the Broncos didn't have TD, they don't win back to back SBs.

Sayers played in the era of 14 game seasons, not 10.

TD was a 3x 1st team All Pro, 2x NFL MVP, 2x SB champ and a SB MVP.
Also had a 2000+ yard/21 Tds rushing season.
Terrell Davis accomplished all of this during the first 5 years of his NFL career.

If Davis had played 5 more years and simply had been an average RB, his HOF candidacy would have been a lock.

EDIT: The HOF isn't just about stats.
Gale Sayers was regarded by most from his era as the greatest RB they'd ever seen, second only to Jim Brown. His statistical production was almost irrelevant.
When fans routinely see a player juke 5+ defenders in the open field, reputation is enough.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Can you imagine if Sayers stayed healthy his whole career though? He could have been the best offensive player in NFL history. He was that good in his prime.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:35 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Ok ok..you've twisted my arm. Gayle Sayers is awesome.

He autographed his book for me, by the way. Seemed like a nice guy.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Can you imagine if Sayers stayed healthy his whole career though? He could have been the best offensive player in NFL history. He was that good in his prime.
I was going to post the same thing. If only, what could have been etc. He'd probably be the measuring stick by which all other offensive players are measured.
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Old 08-31-2011, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Or if Sayers, like Barry Sanders 25 years later, had been on a better team. Sayers was 1st team All-Pro on a 1-13 Bears team in 1969 which also featured Dick Butkus.
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