The 2012 Cowboys Draft Thread

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by DrAbaddon

Yes, because TD/INT numbers are a direct indicator of talent, which is why Jeff George is the greatest QB of all time.

Your quote made me laugh but D-Unit's is just as fun so this is a response to both. QB Rating is the standard for measuring QB performance. If you have a better one other than the repeated opinionated garbage without evidence formula you seem to follow I'll concede.

So QB rating as defined as:

In order to establish a maximum value for an NFL player's passer rating, a separate calculation needs to be completed involving each of the following four categories: Completion Percentage, Average Yards Per Attempt, Percentage of Touchdown Passes, and Percentage of Interceptions. If the result in any category is less than 0, the given result should be 0. If the result in any category is greater than 2.375, the given result should be 2.375. This makes the maximum possible quarterback rating for the NFL 158.3. A perfect rating requires at least a 77.5% completion rate, at least 12.5 yards per attempt, a touchdown on at least 11.875% of attempts, and no interceptions.

So now that that's out of the way. How does Tony Romo rate against his peers (active pros)?

Aaron Rodgers: 104.1
Tony Romo: 96.9
Tom Brady: 96.4
et. al

Interesting. Second best QBR among active QBs beaten only by Aaron "Robo" Rodgers. How about comparing him to the all-time greats? ... Wait. Same story. First place all time? Aaron Rodgers. Second? Tony Romo. Third? Steve Young.

How about Jeff George? 80.4 QBR.

Compare that to Tony Romo's career?

First year as a starter... 95.1
Lowest ever in a season? 91.4
This year? 102.5

I don't get it. There's no argument here that the interior offensive line is garbage. He's done EXTREMELY well for the protection he gets.

[D-Unit]

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that QB rating was a joke? Is that really your bulletproof evidence to prove how good Romo is? What's Tebow's rating. Just curious.

[DrAbaddon]

I guess subtly and sarcasm are easily lost in a text format. The George comment was a tongue in cheek response pointing out how Metsox was talking about something different than what I was...a nonsensical remark in response to a nonsensical remark, but using the same convoluted logic.

Edit: Going back and looking at my comments, I fail to see where I even really made a serious criticism of Romo. I mean, I said he was what I had been praying for the entire last decade for crying out loud! He played well this year, but it's the same tired story at this point. His numbers in garbage-time are just meaningless, but they are always there. Good for him.

[Witten4HOF]

Originally Posted by Macarthur

I'm fine with a DE or NT. Just get Ware some help.

A trade down for Dontari Poe would solve both issues, gives Ryan a big bodied force in the middle, kicks Ratliff out to DE where he can be moved around to take advantage of matchups and gives some extra fire power in the draft.

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

I'm blaming the front office for their lack of attention to defense, but I certainly cannot blame them for surrounding Tony with talent. He's got plenty of that. For the simple fact that there are people that think OG is our #1 need speaks volumes. We're not talking about a lack of weapons, lack of protection on the edges... we're talking about OG. ...and for a team that prides itself on having TEs and RBs that can pass block...

Sheesh... it sure doesn't sound like Tony is expected do much on his own, huh? We have to fix everything around him first in order for him to work right? Wow.

Ok, I'm going to end this argument right now.

People always want to say positions like G, C, S, and ILB aren't as important as positions like QB, pass rushing OLB, CB, OT, etc. The logic for this is completely false, and you can look no further than our own team.

Look at the past five or so years in which our team has become competitive again . Look at the personnel we've had at the so called "important" positions compared to the positions that "aren't as important."

Over the past 5 years we've had pretty damn good OT's from Flo to Colombo until his legs gave out to now Free and Smith, decent pass rushing with obviously Ware, Ratliff, and you can do worse than Spencer, great CB play in the 2 years we made the playoffs (07, 09). Nothing even needs to be said about Tony, who had a great season and the team didn't even make the playoffs. I don't care what anyone says, Tony is a winner and isn't the problem. He has "it" he just hasn't been able to show it yet because he is handicapped by not having a team that plays good, sound football around him. Rodgers just played a terrible game in the playoffs... does he suck now? Cut him right? When you QB just had a season like he had and you don't make the playoffs, you know there is something wrong with the rest of your team. But let's not turn this into anything Romo. If anything disregard that part of this post.

Now, let's look at the players we've had at the "non important positions."

Safety- Everyone has been a joke since the 2005 Roy williams. Hamlin had a good year, whatever. Sensy is a bit above average but close to a JAG. Elam is a JAG. We all know what happened with the Alan Ball experiment. But no, no, not important.

ILB- Complete joke as well until Sean Lee. Have filled the position with average and or aging veterans since we switched the the 3-4. Haven't really had an impact player in recent memory. Dexter Coakley had a good year or two back in like '02-'03... Really? Akin Ayodele? A 5636 year old Zach Thomas and Keith Brooking? My mom could break Braide James' ankles in a phone booth. But nope, not important either.

Center/Guard- At Center, Al Johnson and Gurode we're above average starters, but nothing special and gurode's pro-bowl streak was a joke. Don't even need to say anything about Costa. Maybe there's hope in Kowalski... On to Guard, where Marco Rivera was a hell of a bust signing, Leonard Davis had two good years but was he worth it for the money and already being 29? Kosier solid veteran leader but still is a JAG. Nagy looks like a high schooler. Holland and Dockery are journeyman vets now 30+. Maybe Arkin is an answer at one spot.

So, there you have it. At the so called "important positions" we have had pretty good play, and at the "unimportant positions" we have been very below average to average in some places at best. I wonder why we've only had one playoff win in that span, and in the 2nd playoff game got our asses kicked?

If you want to continue to fight to be 9-7 and try to get a wild card spot and precede to lose in the first round if you even get in... go ahead and get your glamour position guys. If you want to win, you get the tough, REAL football players who play in the middle of the field. Sure, explosive plays and sexy cornerbacks running around in shorts in August look good in the beginning of the season, but come December and the playoff run you need tough football players. You need interior players (C,G,S,ILB) who will grind out wins in 20 degree weather. No coincidence we collapse in December either? That's when you need interior players. The season is long. Football is a tough sport. You need to look deeper than glamour positions and the first 8 weeks of the season.

So the argument in a nutshell: At the positions deemed important we have had pro-bowl type players for a while, and at the positions deemed unimportant we have had below average players to JAGs for a while now. So how is it that we are always talking about the same thing come January and sitting at home watching the playoffs?

This is a joke. I can't believe this is even an argument on a board where fans are supposed to be knowledgable and these basic principles of football are pre-requisits to post with any validity. If you have a response, try to back it up with some football knowledge and some real substance.

Next topic.

[chrlopez1]

I think we can forget about those fantasy ideas that people have here and concentrate on what might actually happen.

The first sign of what might happen is if we re-sign Spencer right when FA begins. I think that will tell us right there if we are going to have to draft a LB in Round 1 or 2. If we let him walk, than I think if Upshaw is there we might take him, The problem is he might be exposed covering the TE or RB out of the backfield. I like Spencer, but I think we can't break the bank on sigining him so if he finds a better situation I am sure he will take it. I think he would excel in a 4-3 behind a DE and DT protecting him.

Signing WR Robinson will be another important step. If we sign him right away to a good contract than I think we will know if we have money to sign Spencer.

Draft............... Depending on what we do in FA..I think that will tell us if we go OL or LB or CB in the Draft. I will wait til combine to see how Kirkpatrick does to see where he might land.

I think we all know that if we want DeCastro he will be there for us at 14. I am not sure with Upshaw I think Buffalo takes him. If Upshaw and Kirkpatrick are gone..than I trade down and take De Castro latter or the next OG on the Board or the Center and get another later pick to get a CB in round 2 and DL help.

In that scenerio I think we need to resign Spencer and have all 4 backers for another year.

I think Spencer is the key.....If or if we don't will determine how we draft.

No fantasy trades or signing just common sense for me....no real GM just a fan.....

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Ok, I'm going to end this argument right now.

People always want to say positions like G, C, S, and ILB aren't as important as positions like QB, pass rushing OLB, CB, OT, etc. The logic for this is completely false, and you can look no further than our own team.

Look at the past five or so years in which our team has become competitive again . Look at the personnel we've had at the so called "important" positions compared to the positions that "aren't as important."

Over the past 5 years we've had pretty damn good OT's from Flo to Colombo until his legs gave out to now Free and Smith, decent pass rushing with obviously Ware, Ratliff, and you can do worse than Spencer, great CB play in the 2 years we made the playoffs (07, 09). Nothing even needs to be said about Tony, who had a great season and the team didn't even make the playoffs. I don't care what anyone says, Tony is a winner and isn't the problem. He has "it" he just hasn't been able to show it yet because he is handicapped by not having a team that plays good, sound football around him. Rodgers just played a terrible game in the playoffs... does he suck now? Cut him right? When you QB just had a season like he had and you don't make the playoffs, you know there is something wrong with the rest of your team. But let's not turn this into anything Romo. If anything disregard that part of this post.

Now, let's look at the players we've had at the "non important positions."

Safety- Everyone has been a joke since the 2005 Roy williams. Hamlin had a good year, whatever. Sensy is a bit above average but close to a JAG. Elam is a JAG. We all know what happened with the Alan Ball experiment. But no, no, not important.

ILB- Complete joke as well until Sean Lee. Have filled the position with average and or aging veterans since we switched the the 3-4. Haven't really had an impact player in recent memory. Dexter Coakley had a good year or two back in like '02-'03... Really? Akin Ayodele? A 5636 year old Zach Thomas and Keith Brooking? My mom could break Braide James' ankles in a phone booth. But nope, not important either.

Center/Guard- At Center, Al Johnson and Gurode we're above average starters, but nothing special and gurode's pro-bowl streak was a joke. Don't even need to say anything about Costa. Maybe there's hope in Kowalski... On to Guard, where Marco Rivera was a hell of a bust signing, Leonard Davis had two good years but was he worth it for the money and already being 29? Kosier solid veteran leader but still is a JAG. Nagy looks like a high schooler. Holland and Dockery are journeyman vets now 30+. Maybe Arkin is an answer at one spot.

So, there you have it. At the so called "important positions" we have had pretty good play, and at the "unimportant positions" we have been very below average to average in some places at best. I wonder why we've only had one playoff win in that span, and in the 2nd playoff game got our asses kicked?

If you want to continue to fight to be 9-7 and try to get a wild card spot and precede to lose in the first round if you even get in... go ahead and get your glamour position guys. If you want to win, you get the tough, REAL football players who play in the middle of the field. Sure, explosive plays and sexy cornerbacks running around in shorts in August look good in the beginning of the season, but come December and the playoff run you need tough football players. You need interior players (C,G,S,ILB) who will grind out wins in 20 degree weather. No coincidence we collapse in December either? That's when you need interior players. The season is long. Football is a tough sport. You need to look deeper than glamour positions and the first 8 weeks of the season.

So the argument in a nutshell: At the positions deemed important we have had pro-bowl type players for a while, and at the positions deemed unimportant we have had below average players to JAGs for a while now. So how is it that we are always talking about the same thing come January and sitting at home watching the playoffs?

This is a joke. I can't believe this is even an argument on a board where fans are supposed to be knowledgable and these basic principles of football are pre-requisits to post with any validity. If you have a response, try to back it up with some football knowledge and some real substance.

Next topic.

This is hilarious. Who are these "people" who you are talking about and why do you think the world revolves around the Cowboys?

[TheFinisher]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Ok, I'm going to end this argument right now.

People always want to say positions like G, C, S, and ILB aren't as important as positions like QB, pass rushing OLB, CB, OT, etc. The logic for this is completely false, and you can look no further than our own team.

Quick, someone needs to tell the Redskins they're making a big mistake by wanting to trade up for Griffin. Their Guard positions aren't solidified yet and DeCastro will probably be there at pick 6!!

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

This is hilarious. Who are these "people" who you are talking about and why do you think the world revolves around the Cowboys?

Ahhh, the satisfaction of victory when you receive responses like this.

Anyway, what does everything think of Mark Barron at 14? If we sure up a few needs in free agency I'd be all for it. It's time we bite the bullet and get a real safety.

Here is a solid draft strategy from someone at BTB:

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/...dallas-cowboys

[leroyisgod]

Originally Posted by CDCB14

Ahhh, the satisfaction of victory when you receive responses like this.

Anyway, what does everything think of Mark Barron at 14? If we sure up a few needs in free agency I'd be all for it. It's time we bite the bullet and get a real safety.

Here is a solid draft strategy from someone at BTB:

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/...dallas-cowboys

I'm completely down for Barron at 14 if we get some help at CB and interior line in FA.

[leroyisgod]

There's a lot of taller safeties in this draft. A lot of guys over 6ft tall. Just an observation.

[Trogdor]

Ick Barron at 14 is awful. We lack a centerfielder type of FS. Barron is yet another Sensabaugh. Playing in a pass-first league and having two players who are better moving forward to play the run at safety is a recipe for disaster.

Top tier of safeties in this draft are pathetic so hopefully we snag someone who could develop a la Aaron Henry, Brandon Taylor, or Tramain Thomas.

[MetSox17]

Michael Griffin or Michael Huff, that's who we need!

[leroyisgod]

I'll pass on Huff, but totally game for Griffin.

[Macarthur]

Originally Posted by Witten4HOF

A trade down for Dontari Poe would solve both issues, gives Ryan a big bodied force in the middle, kicks Ratliff out to DE where he can be moved around to take advantage of matchups and gives some extra fire power in the draft.

I would be okay with this. Especially after seeing how dominate wilfork has been today.

[dsc1600]

A bigger question, would anyone want to trade up to 14? Hear alot about trading down, we need a partner.

[Witten4HOF]

Originally Posted by dsc1600

A bigger question, would anyone want to trade up to 14? Hear alot about trading down, we need a partner.

#14 is actually a prime position to move.... someone is boud to fall, Kirkpatrick should be there, I think Blackmon will go high causing Floyd to rise into the mid first round. Kalil and Reiff will be top ten, so teams looking for tackle could look to snatch up Martin. There are a ton of different variables right now, this question can probably be better answered after the combine/pro days to see the hot risers.

[Witten4HOF]

Anyone have any info on Akiem Hicks, I keep reading reports that he was doing some awesome things all week during the East-West shrine .He played 2 years on JUCO then two years in Canada after being inappropriately recruited by LSU as a junior. Technique wise or skills set I dont know much but he is 6'5 325lbs, 42 tck / 8tfl / 6.5 sacks / 2 ff in Regina(canada) this past season. On paper he looks like he would be a solid late round flyer @ 5 tech. Any chance he catches fire and moves up into the second day of the draft ?

[Witten4HOF]

I also found this comparison of Brandon Brooks to Carl Nicks interesting.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft...shrinebuzz0119

Miami (Ohio) G Brandon Brooks
My colleague Steve Muench is a big fan of Brooks, who is not an elite athlete but has a massive frame (6-4⅝, 353) and plenty of strength. He moves well enough for his size, and Brooks would be a good fit with power running teams such as the Baltimore Ravens and Arizona Cardinals. NFL comparison: Carl Nicks, New Orleans Saints

• Miami (Ohio) G Brandon Brooks showed good feet during a slide-and-punch drill, but he did show a tendency to stop moving his feet when he got to the spot. He took coaching on that well, though, and later in practice showed good range for a 6-4⅝, 353-pounder, getting outside to pick up a linebacker on a screen. Brooks likely helped cement his spot in the middle rounds.

[leroyisgod]

Originally Posted by dsc1600

A bigger question, would anyone want to trade up to 14? Hear alot about trading down, we need a partner.

If it's anything like last year, teams will be reaching for a 2-3 round QB in the first round.

[leroyisgod]

At this point I'm so ready for the combine it's not even funny. A lot of guys are sparking my interest and want to see how they run and do in the drills.

[leroyisgod]

I'm assuming Marty B won't be coming back. I know a lot of people are pretty high on Phillips and I'd say I think there's some potential there, but I think he's got limited upside. At some point in the draft we need to take a look at a faster athletic TE that can eventually be a difference maker. I wouldn't put this as a top priority, but one to consider in maybe the 5-7 rounds.

[yanksknicks]

Originally Posted by leroyisgod

I'm assuming Marty B won't be coming back. I know a lot of people are pretty high on Phillips and I'd say I think there's some potential there, but I think he's got limited upside. At some point in the draft we need to take a look at a faster athletic TE that can eventually be a difference maker. I wouldn't put this as a top priority, but one to consider in maybe the 5-7 rounds.

Then you better start scouting College BB teams b/c you ain't getting a fantastic upside football player in rounds 5-7.

[CDCB14]

Originally Posted by leroyisgod

I'm assuming Marty B won't be coming back. I know a lot of people are pretty high on Phillips and I'd say I think there's some potential there, but I think he's got limited upside. At some point in the draft we need to take a look at a faster athletic TE that can eventually be a difference maker. I wouldn't put this as a top priority, but one to consider in maybe the 5-7 rounds.

It's a weird situation with Bennett. I also doubt he comes back, but did any of you see his interview on NFL Network about a week ago? He was acting like he was going to come back. I don't know if he was just being politically correct in front of the camera, but it was weird.

You can go to NFL.com and click the cowboys video section if you want to watch it.

As for my draft philosophy, after watching the Giants and Niners we just need to get athletes on defense. Sign an interior OL who is good in FA then i want to pretty much go all defense. We just need team speed.

I was running down our roster and looking at all the average athletes (by NFL standards) on our roster. Coleman, Spears, Brookie, Bradie, Elam, Spencer, Newman in his old age... the list goes on and on. We just need guys who will fly around. Hopefully Bruce Carter and Sean Lissemore help that, but we need more.

This team needs athletes and speed on defense. It's the only way to have a chance in today's NFL.

[leroyisgod]

Originally Posted by yanksknicks

Then you better start scouting College BB teams b/c you ain't getting a fantastic upside football player in rounds 5-7.

Could be a project as well.