The "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes - Page 21

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 10:39 AM

Hahahaha, Kellen Moore as a pro prospect. He's a lesser Ken Dorsey.

nepg · 11-01-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Hahahaha, Kellen Moore as a pro prospect. He's a lesser Ken Dorsey.

I get your sentiment, but that's a terrible comparison. Dorsey was along for the ride at Miami, Kellen Moore drives everything in Boise. Maybe a better version of Stefan LeFors.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

I get your sentiment, but that's a terrible comparison. Dorsey was along for the ride at Miami, Kellen Moore drives everything in Boise. Maybe a better version of Stefan LeFors.

Incredibly weak arms....like, Ken Dorsey is the "1" on my 1-10 scale of arm strength. I'm thinking of bumping Dorsey to 1.5 and making Moore my new "1."

Moore as a pro would experience exactly what happened to Max Hall last year. Undersized guy with a pea shooter....no, toy squirt gun arm....who wowed the coaching staff by being smart and good in practice, then struggled badly in actual games.

People (usually ignorant people) associate arm strength with the ability to throw the deep ball. That's only part of it. The velocity you get on your short and intermediate passes is the far more important aspect of it. The gaps in coverage in the NFL close so much faster than in college. Moore would badly struggle to complete even the simplest passes with how weak his arm is. He floats every pass he throws. He'd get absolutely eaten alive in the pros.

I like to say that his arm isn't even strong enough to hold up a clipboard in the pros. No one will draft him and he's barely camp arm material.

49erNation85 · 11-01-2011, 10:49 AM

Don't be hating on Moore hes a stud a QB.Plus he also better then Brady Quin,

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 10:51 AM

You people are nuts. I want to be the GM in a league where you are all the GMs of other teams. I'd laugh as you draft someone like Kellen Moore, or start someone like Tim Tebow, or pass on Luck in favor of keeping Kolb, or pick someone like Ryan Tannehill over Matt Barkley. You'd make me look like the greatest damn GM in sports history.

njx9 · 11-01-2011, 11:06 AM

to be fair, moore *is* better than brady quinn. but then, so is most of boise state's freshman cheerleading team.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

to be fair, moore *is* better than brady quinn. but then, so is most of boise state's freshman cheerleading team.

I have trouble imagining a scenario worse than having Tebow and Quinn as QBs. Luckily, one of them will likely be starting when the Bears come to down in a few weeks.

jrdrylie · 11-01-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

You people are nuts. I want to be the GM in a league where you are all the GMs of other teams. I'd laugh as you draft someone like Kellen Moore, or start someone like Tim Tebow, or pass on Luck in favor of keeping Kolb, or pick someone like Ryan Tannehill over Matt Barkley. You'd make me look like the greatest damn GM in sports history.

Using a 7th round pick on Moore wouldn't be absolutely idiotic. He's a smart guy and from what I hear he is kind of like a coach on the field. As a third QB that can teach other players and do well in practice, he's not bad. But there is no way he should be anywhere near actually stepping on the field in the NFL.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Using a 7th round pick on Moore wouldn't be absolutely idiotic. He's a smart guy and from what I hear he is kind of like a coach on the field. As a third QB that can teach other players and do well in practice, he's not bad. But there is no way he should be anywhere near actually stepping on the field in the NFL.

Don't waste a pick, even a 7th rounder, on a guy who can't play. If I think he'll make a good coach, I'll hire him as a damn coach. Players play first and foremost. It's a waste of the pick and a roster spot to keep a guy around because he's kind of smart.

You could use that roster spot, instead of on a 3rd QB, on an extra DB or WR who can play special teams and keep a better player on the sideline not risking injury. Or you can use it on an actual 3rd QB with some NFL level talent to develop him into a future starter or at least backup.

49erNation85 · 11-01-2011, 01:30 PM

BeerBaron ,
Honestly why not use him as jrdrylie said.He could be a value tool on the practice squad or as a 3rd string who rarely comes into play but just on the team and teaches the rookies on offense who can play.I'm sure his football IQ is off the charts.Why do you hate kid so much?You will see come draft day he will get drafted by some team.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

BeerBaron ,
Honestly why not use him as jrdrylie said.He could be a value tool on the practice squad or as a 3rd string who rarely comes into play but just on the team and teaches the rookies on offense who can play.I'm sure his football IQ is off the charts.Why do you hate kid so much?You will see come draft day he will get drafted by some team.

Then hire him as a coach. Don't waste a draft pick, roster spot or practice squad spot on a guy with no NFL playing future.

vidae · 11-01-2011, 01:59 PM

I gotta agree with BeerBaron here. Don't waste a draft pick on a guy who isn't going to contribute in some way. Hell, there are a lot better development type prospects that should be drafted before Moore and they're probably not worth a pick either.

jrdrylie · 11-01-2011, 02:29 PM

Too bad Kellen Moore wasn't in the draft last year. Some team could have drafted him. And then instead of the whole team Sucking for Luck, they just start Moore and have him throw it 50 times a game. That would guarantee the number one pick.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Too bad Kellen Moore wasn't in the draft last year. Some team could have drafted him. And then instead of the whole team Sucking for Luck, they just start Moore and have him throw it 50 times a game. That would guarantee the number one pick.

No, you're thinking of Colt McCoy. 4th in the league in attempts, 26th in completion %. I thought he made up for his pea shooter arm with tons and tons of accuracy?

Oh, but I bet it's just his weapons....if only he and Blaine Gabbert and Sam Bradford had some weapons...

jrdrylie · 11-01-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

No, you're thinking of Colt McCoy.

No, Colt McCoy is leaps and bounds more talented than Kellen Moore (that's not a compliment to McCoy). He is too talented to cause a team to enter into a year of epic suck. Plus, he only passed about 28 times a game. You need to double that.

LonghornsLegend · 11-01-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babylon

You didnt see the part where i said another player, which pretty much means anyone off the roster. I dont see Tebow staying in Denver if they deal for Luck so take Tebow or ship him out its really insignificant. Just giving my opion on where i think he will end up, people need to not get offended by it.

Nobody is getting offended, I'm just tired of coming to this thread and seeing another ridiculous hypothetical situation every day that'll never happen. Maybe the Colts and Broncos do end up trading, who knows. But their not going to want Tebow to be any part of it, there is absolutely no reason they would, none. Tebow isn't an upgrade over Curtis Painter, your giving up the rights to Andrew Luck why would you want terrible players in return just because they play QB?

Maybe Tebow leaves Denver, I'm sure someone will sign him to run some sort of package with him. But there's no reasons you can come up with that make the slightest bit of sense that a team would trade the pick that could get them Andrew Luck, and ask for Tebow to be one of the players to be traded to them.

kalbears13 · 11-01-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

No, you're thinking of Colt McCoy. 4th in the league in attempts, 26th in completion %. I thought he made up for his pea shooter arm with tons and tons of accuracy?

Oh, but I bet it's just his weapons....if only he and Blaine Gabbert and Sam Bradford had some weapons...

Ehh...part of it is his receiver corp but most of it is him not hitting receivers. He's definitely digressing from last year. He does not have the accuracy that I was hoping for.

LonghornsLegend · 11-01-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I'm finding it more and more likely that no matter who ends up with the #1 pick, they'll take Luck

You actually thought it would be someone else at another point? I do agree with the fact that Luck & Barkley are likely going 1 and 2 to the Colts and Dolphins honestly. But I'm sure people haven't gotten tired of talking about how *if* Peyton is healthy he can play for another 3-4 years and you can give him a run at a SB by trading for all this stuff.

But yea, let's bring back Peyton after numerous spine surgeries, on a team that looks like an 0-16 team, and let's fool ourselves into thinking that he'll be playing at a high enough level and injury free for 3 years, and whatever they can trade for is enough to make them not only a playoff contender but actually win a SB. Something they struggled with even with Peyton in his prime.

Even though all comments and signs out of Indy are they are eyeing the future, as well as a QB. I can't even believe some people think trying to load up Peyton with weapons for a run is the smart choice. It be different if they had an elite defense, or a RB like Adrian Peterson. You have to secure your next 12 years by getting that franchise guy, and build around him.

Besides all that, wasn't Peyton supposed to be healthy this year? Who thought he was gonna miss the season back in May? But were all of a sudden supposed to think multiple spine injuries for a 36 year old guy will stay healthy for 3 more years, AND play at a level good enough for them to win a SB.

Polian has made some idiotic moves lately, but he's not even that stupid to pass up on a QB in this draft, in prime position to take one. I haven't just heard that here, even talking heads consider this. Never made sense to me.

AntoinCD · 11-01-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbears13

Ehh...part of it is his receiver corp but most of it is him not hitting receivers. He's definitely digressing from last year. He does not have the accuracy that I was hoping for.

If you are a QB with a below average arm you better be ridiculously accurate in the short to intermediate game to be relatively successful. Unless McCoy somehow shows his accuracy has improved then the Browns would be my joint favourite with the Broncos to trade up for Luck.

The Browns because they have the ammo to get there without gutting the team and the Broncos because of Elway's Stanford connection and...you know...Tebow and all that

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbears13

Ehh...part of it is his receiver corp but most of it is him not hitting receivers. He's definitely digressing from last year. He does not have the accuracy that I was hoping for.

Normally I'm not big on stats, but those two I quoted earlier do speak volumes in this case. I was, unfortunately, subjected to the Browns/Seahawks game a few weeks ago and McCoy just didn't look like he belonged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

You actually thought it would be someone else at another point?

No, no one would pass on Luck to begin with. He was going to be taken by someone #1, but that team may have been in a trade down situation.

I meant it as NOW, right NOW, not two weeks ago, not a month ago, whoever has that pick will be taking Luck. Dolphins, Colts, Rams, Cardinals, Broncos, Browns....they're taking Luck.

JBCX · 11-01-2011, 04:54 PM

BeerBaron: If Kellen Moore has such a pop-gun arm, wouldn't he eventually be exposed on the collegiate level at some point? I mean, how is he putting up so many TDs and yards with a complete rag arm?

jth1331 · 11-01-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by njx9

i occasionally wonder if you even watch this team.

The OL is still a mess at parts, mainly the turnstiles Franklin and Beadles, the WR's are unknown, we have no long term RB, the conservative playcalling of Fox, yeah.

BeerBaron · 11-01-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBCX

BeerBaron: If Kellen Moore has such a pop-gun arm, wouldn't he eventually be exposed on the collegiate level at some point? I mean, how is he putting up so many TDs and yards with a complete rag arm?

Could be, if he were to play Alabama or LSU or another defense like that who is practically borderline NFL caliber in terms of it's overall speed and talent.

We've seen other guys with incredibly weak arms do just fine, even great, at the collegiate level but get exposed in the NFL. Ken Dorsey was one. Max Hall is an other example I like to use since it's more recent in everyone's mind. He did just fine in college, then struggled mightily, even beyond your typical rookie struggles, last year. He just could not complete a pass beyond about 10 yards. For some less extreme examples, look at Colt McCoy, Kevin Kolb and Kyle Orton. They have weaker arms by NFL standards and really have to work to even look average.

You have to remember, at the NFL level, even the worst, slowest (relative to their position) defenders were almost always one of the best players on their college defense. Pull any defender from your favorite team's defense and I can guarantee that he was probably a top 3 defender on his college team. For smaller schools, he was probably thee guy on his defense. The cumulative effect is that the overall team speed on even the worst NFL team is well beyond what the best college team can throw at a QB.

The thing that a lot of people struggle to grasp is that arm strength only has a little to do with your deep ball. Any high level college QB should be able to sling a ball 50-60 yards. Even your average adult male should be able to. I, even on a bad knee, if given a few warm up throws, could probably toss ball 50 yards. It would be wobbly as all hell and probably wouldn't be accurate at all, but it would travel that far.

Where it's the most important is for the velocity on your short and intermediate passes. This is what separates the men from the boys at QB. No one would argue that guys like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have amazing arms, but they're more than adequate to complete every reasonable pass they could be asked to throw.

Have you ever heard the old saying that it's the receivers job to beat the corner and the QBs job to beat the safety? That's where this comes into play. There might only be a one second window where the WR is open at the NFL level.

Finally, even beyond the arm strength, Moore is incredibly short and "small" all over. He's about 6'0 180 or so? You just don't see QBs that size hold up at the NFL level. You can point to Drew Brees if you want, but he's a definite exception to the rule in terms of height. He also has a very lively arm and is a bit bulkier for his height.

Moore may interview well and impress some team enough to give him a shot, possibly even be drafted late, but I can't foresee him doing anything relevant at the NFL level.

NotRickJames · 11-02-2011, 02:04 AM

You don't need a rocket, but Moore's arm is too weak.

Kolb's arm strength is grossly understated. It's not that weak.

BeerBaron · 11-02-2011, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotRickJames

You don't need a rocket, but Moore's arm is too weak.

Kolb's arm strength is grossly understated. It's not that weak.

It's not Moore level bad, but it's nothing special. Kolb wasn't worth what the Cardinals traded for him and now they're stuck with him.

In the last five years Kolb is 4-10 as a starter with more interceptions (22) than touchdown passes (19), yet was recently the subject of a major trade, receiving a huge signing bonus in the process.

Throw in the not-great arm, staring down receivers, no pocket presence..he's worse than AJ Feeley was with the Dolphins.