The "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes - Page 30

Saints-Tigers · 12-28-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armageddon

From a 2nd year QB who didn't even play football his sr year ? Tough crowd.

After watching guys like Newton, Dalton, and then offenses go bananas this year?

Sorry, not feeling any excuses for passers.

keylime_5 · 12-28-2011, 08:40 PM

Bradford may not be as good as Luck, but as it is right now the Rams have who they believe is their franchise QB and have a ton of money tied up into him, so they don't really need Luck. I can't believe that their plan would be to eat all that money and take Luck/trade Sam when they could just keep Bradford and then get several first round picks to build the rest of their team that is so devoid of talent. Taking Luck would be an upgrade, but it would cost the team several other top players at other positions to take him. The # of top picks the Rams would get + already having a #1 overall pick at QB from 2 years ago shouldn't make it that hard of a decision for them logically.

ArkyRamsFan · 12-28-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by descendency

That would be insane.

I don't get what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the Browns would be "insane" to give up one of their two first round picks for Sam Bradford, or are you implying that the Rams would be insane to trade Brads?

RaiderNation · 12-28-2011, 09:07 PM

If the Rams end up with the 1st pick, I would trade Bradford to a team like Cleveland or Washigton for a 2nd in 2012 and 1st in 2013. Getting Luck then 2 high 2nd rounders this year could really improve the football team. A olinemen and a dlinemen/CB plus Luck and a new coaching staff will turn this organization around.

I wasn't as high on Bradford compared to most scouts, and he really regressed this season. McDaniels deserves some blame, but Bradford has been an effective QB at all and would be upgraded over with Luck in this situation.

I don't think the Colts win though, the Jags running game will likely be 200+ if MJD can keep playing at a high level. The Jags D is solid as well but idk what hey do with Gabbert this off season...

armageddon · 12-28-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

After watching guys like Newton, Dalton, and then offenses go bananas this year?

Sorry, not feeling any excuses for passers.

Bradford doesn't have anybody close to AJ Green, Gresham or Steve Smith.

FUNBUNCHER · 12-28-2011, 10:38 PM

In five years, make a list of the top 10 QBs in the NFL.
I think Bradford has just as much of a shot as Luck to be on that list.

Maybe Luck has a better chance to be the #1-2 QB in the NFL than Bradford, but at the end of the day I think Bradford will be recognized as a franchise QB.

You guys are super hard on young QBs.
Bradford has been battling injuries most of the season. Give the guy an opportunity to actually complete most of the season healthy.

Shane P. Hallam · 12-28-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

In five years, make a list of the top 10 QBs in the NFL.
I think Bradford has just as much of a shot as Luck to be on that list.

Maybe Luck has a better chance to be the #1-2 QB in the NFL than Bradford, but at the end of the day I think Bradford will be recognized as a franchise QB.

You guys are super hard on young QBs.
Bradford has been battling injuries most of the season. Give the guy an opportunity to actually complete most of the season healthy.

Isn't health part of the problem?

holt_bruce81 · 12-28-2011, 11:53 PM

lol at people saying the Rams should trade away Bradford.

Did Andrew Luck look good vs Oregon when his O-line had trouble blocking and none of his receivers could get open? Nope. That's what Sam has dealt with all year. Get him some weapons.

holt_bruce81 · 12-29-2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBCX

My personal theory is that the Browns, under Mike Holmgren (who coveted Bradford in the 2010 draft), will trade one of their two first round picks to the Rams for Bradford, allowing St. Louis to draft Luck with the #1 overall pick and a weapon like Michael Floyd or Justin Blackmon with the other pick.

Or we could keep Bradford and then Trade the Browns the #1 pick for both their first rounders and their 2nd rounder and draft Blackmon, Kuechly, Cordy Glenn, Kendal Wright/Lamar Miller

GaMeTiMe · 12-29-2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

In five years, make a list of the top 10 QBs in the NFL.
I think Bradford has just as much of a shot as Luck to be on that list.

Maybe Luck has a better chance to be the #1-2 QB in the NFL than Bradford, but at the end of the day I think Bradford will be recognized as a franchise QB.

You guys are super hard on young QBs.
Bradford has been battling injuries most of the season. Give the guy an opportunity to actually complete most of the season healthy.

Honestly it's more about the contract than anything. You're going to get a player for half the price that more or less has a higher ceiling, you're going to take that every time. And then you're going to fetch a very nice bundle of picks in return and it's even better.

If the Rams end up picking #1, they should absolutely trade Bradford and that fat, old-school rookie contract no matter what the supposed cost of this year's top pick is. New regime, half the salary, and it's Andrew Luck.

Miami has played themselves out of both Luck and Griffin and there were whispers that they may dangle Jake Long in order to move up; I don't see why not just flip him for Bradford, straight up. It'd leave a need at tackle, yes, and he's performed better than Bradford no matter what excuses you want to make, but Bradford still has a long way to go and is obviously a franchise-QB, something even an always important stud LT is not.

armageddon · 12-29-2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaMeTiMe

Honestly it's more about the contract than anything. You're going to get a player for half the price that more or less has a higher ceiling, you're going to take that every time. And then you're going to fetch a very nice bundle of picks in return and it's even better.

If the Rams end up picking #1, they should absolutely trade Bradford and that fat, old-school rookie contract no matter what the supposed cost of this year's top pick is. New regime, half the salary, and it's Andrew Luck.

Bradford's contract is very manageable from here out. They have given him a large portion already. Let's protect him and get him a couple real NFL caliber WR's and see what he does once his ankle heels. The reason he hurt his ankle is because of the poor protection.

Rosebud · 12-29-2011, 02:53 AM

Sam Bradford has gotten absurdly under-rated on this board. If the Rams get the first pick they'll get more assets trading away Luck than Bradford and the differences between the two are marginal at best. If they can turn luck into Joe Thomas and Cleveland's two first round picks they'd be idiots not to take that deal. Thomas-Bell-Brown-Saffold-Smith has the makings of a great OL to keep Sam in one piece and get the running game going again plus they'd have the picks to grab a #1 receiver for Sam and still have a bunch of picks to fill out the D around the pass rushers and couple back 7 pieces they have.

keylime_5 · 12-29-2011, 09:44 AM

lol, the browns aren't gonna trade thomas they just signed him to a long term contract a few months ago. if any trades are made i expect them to involve picks not players.

Nalej · 12-29-2011, 09:46 AM

^^^ Agreed. I don't see JT being a part of the deal.

Rosebud · 12-29-2011, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keylime_5

lol, the browns aren't gonna trade thomas they just signed him to a long term contract a few months ago. if any trades are made i expect them to involve picks not players.

You know, I wouldn't either, but with how over-rated Luck is becoming (4-6 firsts? no ******* way) the Rams would be dumb to trade Bradford who's as good but won't bring in as much. Which was all I was trying to say.

BeerBaron · 12-29-2011, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

You know, I wouldn't either, but with how over-rated Luck is becoming (4-6 firsts? no ******* way) the Rams would be dumb to trade Bradford who's as good but won't bring in as much. Which was all I was trying to say.

Don't include Luck's name with that stupid ass estimate. Some ******* idiot journalist wanting some attention started that ******* ********. A team wouldn't give up 6 first round picks for Aaron Rodgers much less ANY rookie.

So don't lump Luck in with that nonsense and DO NOT call him overrated. The only people who could possibly think that are the ones who turned in to a game, saw one incomplete pass and are like "wow, this guy is overrated!"

Douchers. The overanalysis is incredibly ********. Luck is a great QB prospect and one of the best in years. Yet people who seriously think that some team might take Griffin over him are just stupid. In fact, they should be castrated by having their testicles removed through their anus.

Sigh.

I'm sorry, that wasn't directed specifically at you but it's been brewing for a while. Luck is a fantastic QB prospect and the insane levels of critical overanalysis need to stop. Is he automatically better than any great QB? Of course not. But purely as a prospect, is he one of the best in at least the past decade? Of course.

In fact, maybe the best thing to happen for Luck would be for him to go to the Colts and sit behind Manning for 1-2 years just to let the hype die down a little bit. He'll still be a rookie for at least one year. I can only imagine the insanity that will ensue after one bad game. Everyone has bad games, especially any rookie who has ever existed.

But Luck's bad games will be the end of the ************* world. I trust that all of the sensible people here would know better than to panic completely if Luck isn't Jesus tapdancing Elway right away, but the non-sensible people will fuel a hate-rage in me and I cannot be held responsible for the things I do and say to them.

Rosebud · 12-29-2011, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Don't include Luck's name with that stupid ass estimate. Some ******* idiot journalist wanting some attention started that ******* ********. A team wouldn't give up 6 first round picks for Aaron Rodgers much less ANY rookie.

So don't lump Luck in with that nonsense and DO NOT call him overrated. The only people who could possibly think that are the ones who turned in to a game, saw one incomplete pass and are like "wow, this guy is overrated!"

Douchers. The overanalysis is incredibly ********. Luck is a great QB prospect and one of the best in years. Yet people who seriously think that some team might take Griffin over him are just stupid. In fact, they should be castrated by having their testicles removed through their anus.

Sigh.

I'm sorry, that wasn't directed specifically at you but it's been brewing for a while. Luck is a fantastic QB prospect and the insane levels of critical overanalysis need to stop. Is he automatically better than any great QB? Of course not. But purely as a prospect, is he one of the best in at least the past decade? Of course.

In fact, maybe the best thing to happen for Luck would be for him to go to the Colts and sit behind Manning for 1-2 years just to let the hype die down a little bit. He'll still be a rookie for at least one year. I can only imagine the insanity that will ensue after one bad game. Everyone has bad games, especially any rookie who has ever existed.

But Luck's bad games will be the end of the ************* world. I trust that all of the sensible people here would know better than to panic completely if Luck isn't Jesus tapdancing Elway right away, but the non-sensible people will fuel a hate-rage in me and I cannot be held responsible for the things I do and say to them.

I say he's over-rated not because of that estimate or because he's not a great QB prospect. I say he's over-rated because of how easily people are ready to throw Sam Bradford, who was also a fantastic prospect and had a great rookie season, given the **** he has to work with, under the bus to clear a path for Luck who IMO will just be marginally better than Bradford. Neither have cannon's like JaWalrus or Cam but can make every throw, neither can run like Locker or Vick but both move really well, both have great accuracy on their throws and both have that intelligence and game awareness to become their own OCs like the Manning bros and other elite QBs. I really do like both guys and think they'll be top 10 QBs, which is why it's ridiculous to me that people would rather trade Bradford even if Luck would bring back a lot more in a trade.

It's like if Dallas was getting ready to trade Romo and a couple first round picks for a guy like Rivers or Schaub, yeah they might be a little bit better, but they're sure as hell not multiple first round picks better.

BeerBaron · 12-29-2011, 10:25 AM

Bradford's rookie year was only great if you don't count the final games. After week 13, when teams figured out the simplistic offense they were running, he would throw 1 TD to 6 picks the rest of the year while the team was in a playoff hunt, and he's never recovered.

As I have said previously, there are extenuating circumstances with Bradford and the Rams that may make it hard to dump him for Luck cheaply.

However, in a straight Luck or Bradford scenerio, I'm taking Luck. I didn't care for Bradford as a prospect, feeling his physical tools are overrated and that he'll be slow to grasp a pro offense. He did well early in last season in large part because the Rams were running a scheme not too different from Oklahoma's. That got figured out late in the year and he never recovered.

This year, throwing him into McD's scheme was apparently even worse. That whole offense is ****** up now and I don't think it's entirely the talent level of the surround players.

They're almost certainly going to have a new coach and coaching staff next year, which means a new offensive system and no ties to Bradford.

If the money/cap situation forces them to keep Bradford, so be it. They'll just have to get more talent and do they best they can with him.

But if given the choice between Luck and Bradford straight up, again, I'm taking Luck.

Rosebud · 12-29-2011, 10:53 AM

IMO it's a toss up so I have no issue with someone picking Luck over Bradford if it's a straight up pick, since it's really close regardless of which one ends up actually being better, but it's people acting like there's a huge gap is what annoys me. Physical tool are almost exactly the same and Bradford has that exceptional intelligence that has set Luck apart from many #1 overall picks.

To me Sam Bradford has just been crippled by that OL falling apart and there being no WR that's a dependable blitz beater on that squad. Defensively that team also doesn't let that O not play from behind which just exacerbates the issues the O has.

swngtrdr · 12-29-2011, 12:04 PM

It does not matter who the QB is on the Rams. If Luck was the QB he would suck too. Go to NFL.com and click on offensive line stats. The Rams have the worst offensive line in the NFL and the numbers to back it up. Even before the tackles were injured they were last in the league. They can't run block and they can't pass block. There is no such thing as great QB play with the worst line in the league. Look at the 5 teams with the worst OL stats in the NFL and all have poor QB play. Shocking!

descendency · 12-29-2011, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArkyRamsFan

I don't get what you are trying to say. Are you saying that the Browns would be "insane" to give up one of their two first round picks for Sam Bradford, or are you implying that the Rams would be insane to trade Brads?

I meant that it would be amazing for the Rams. To get Luck and two very good players in the same draft...

swngtrdr · 12-29-2011, 12:10 PM

It does not matter who the QB is on the Rams. If Luck was the QB he would suck too. Go to NFL.com and click on offensive line stats. The Rams have the worst offensive line in the NFL and the numbers to back it up. Even before the tackles were injured they were last in the league. They can't run block and they can't pass block. There is no such thing as great QB play with the worst line in the league. Look at the 5 teams with the worst OL stats in the NFL and all have poor QB play. Shocking!

Shane P. Hallam · 12-29-2011, 12:13 PM

Add onto the fact that with a new coach, and a 3rd offensive system in 3 years, I'd be hard pressed to want Bradford to keep learning over and over again. Send him to the Browns where he knows that system and get Luck to learn the new system next year, starting fresh.

armageddon · 12-29-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam

Add onto the fact that with a new coach, and a 3rd offensive system in 3 years, I'd be hard pressed to want Bradford to keep learning over and over again. Send him to the Browns where he knows that system and get Luck to learn the new system next year, starting fresh.

I would be ok with that if the price was right, but imagine how much more they would receive for Luck ?

Option 1) Keep Bradford, trade Luck and receive 3 1sts and 2 seconds
Option 2) Draft Luck, trade Bradford for a 1st

I personally don't think Luck is that much better than Bradford if both are put in the same situation. If you keep Bradford, you will have many more top picks to build around him. If you keep Luck, you will put him in the same crappy situation Bradford was in, no line and no weapons.

prock · 12-29-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swngtrdr

It does not matter who the QB is on the Rams. If Luck was the QB he would suck too. Go to NFL.com and click on offensive line stats. The Rams have the worst offensive line in the NFL and the numbers to back it up. Even before the tackles were injured they were last in the league. They can't run block and they can't pass block. There is no such thing as great QB play with the worst line in the league. Look at the 5 teams with the worst OL stats in the NFL and all have poor QB play. Shocking!

Good QBs make bad offensive lines look better than they are.