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Old 12-02-2011, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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Default Could David DeCastro be the 2nd OL Taken?

After Kalil who is a top 5 lock the other offensive tackles in this class have failed to impress. While I was a big fan of Jonathan Martin last year his play has truly fallen off in his Senior year. Mike Adams on the other hand had been terrible up until his Senior year and Riley Reiff is his constant lukewarm self.

Which brings me to David DeCastro, he has constantly played at an elite level for the past two seasons and with the new CBA and the massive decrease in rookie contracts do you think it's possible that he ends up as a top 10/15 pick going ahead of the other offensive tackles in this class?

And one more thought would you rather have an average to above average OT or an elite OG?
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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DeCastro is well worth a top pick. The guy is an animal and he is such does such a good job pulling. He really pops at guard which isn't easy to do.

However, I just don't see how a team will pull the trigger on him if they also need a tackle. Tackle is just more of a premium position and people will be more willing to take a risk on a tackle with potential than just to take a safe guard, as wrong as that may be in this case.

Too many teams need top tackles to handle those big time pass rushers on the outside, and teams think that they can get some solid mid rounders to fill in at guard who can be good solid players. I don't think there are enough dominant interior pass rushers that teams need to be clamoring to snap up elite guards to counter them.

Mike Pouncey went at 15 and I think that DeCastro is clearly a better prospect than him, although Mike was a center. I think top 15 hopeful. He is as "can't miss" as a guard can be, but what guard has ever been taken early? How many top guards even bust?

I hope this is semi legible, I'm exhausted right now and I'm a little hazy.
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Old 12-02-2011, 04:07 AM    (permalink
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Around 15 is generally their peak but since teams wouldn't be paying a guard 40 million now as they would have prior to the new CBA it seems much more reasonable in my eyes
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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I see him in that 10-15 area, I think Mike Adams ends up being the second off Tackle off the board and could go top 10.

Then again, other the if your cards lose out on Kalil, I could see some of the other teams needing a LT taking a different need with Kalil off the board and he Adams might slip down into the same range as DeCastro.

So yea I can see a scenario where DeCastro is the second OL off the board
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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An offensive guard has only been drafted in the top-20 nine times the past twenty drafts. You have to go back to 1988 to see one go in the top-10, where both the Jets (Dave Cadigan - 8th overall) and Giants (Eric Moore - 10th overall) made the plunge.


17th - Mike Iupati - 2010
15th - Branden Albert - 2008
16th - Shawn Andrews - 2004
17th - Steve Hutchinson - 2001
18th - Matt Stichcomb - 1999
10th - Chris Naeole - 1997
14th - Ruben Brown - 1995
16th - Aaron Taylor - 1994
19th - Lester Holmes - 1993
13th - Eugene Chung - 1991
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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An offensive guard has only been drafted in the top-20 nine times the past twenty drafts. You have to go back to 1988 to see one go in the top-10, where both the Jets (Dave Cadigan - 8th overall) and Giants (Eric Moore - 10th overall) made the plunge.


17th - Mike Iupati - 2010
15th - Branden Albert - 2008
16th - Shawn Andrews - 2004
17th - Steve Hutchinson - 2001
18th - Matt Stichcomb - 1999
10th - Chris Naeole - 1997
14th - Ruben Brown - 1995
16th - Aaron Taylor - 1994
19th - Lester Holmes - 1993
13th - Eugene Chung - 1991
Poor argument because the amounts paid to high draft picks made it prohibitive to take an interior lineman high.

Now, all bets are off.

I think DeCastro could absolutely be a top 10 pick.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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After Kalil who is a top 5 lock the other offensive tackles in this class have failed to impress. While I was a big fan of Jonathan Martin last year his play has truly fallen off in his Senior year. Mike Adams on the other hand had been terrible up until his Senior year and Riley Reiff is his constant lukewarm self.
Adams had a breakout junior year. That makes 2 years (minus the five games he missed this year) of good play from him.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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Poor argument because the amounts paid to high draft picks made it prohibitive to take an interior lineman high.

Now, all bets are off.

I think DeCastro could absolutely be a top 10 pick.
You're right, but it wasn't an argument. Just a factual listing of who and where guards were drafted the last 20 years.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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And one more thought would you rather have an average to above average OT or an elite OG?
This is the really what it comes down to, isn't it? I agree with your point about the relative individual value of the tackles in this class after Kalil, but I'm still not sure I would take the elite guard over an average to above average tackle. Especially if I'm picking for a team that passes a lot. You can get by with filler and junk inside if you absolutely have to and still do pretty well. That's not as easy to pull off with a tackle. I like DeCastro a ton, but if I have a need at both tackle and guard and Kalil is off the board, I'm still taking someone from those next three.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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I think DeCastro has a good chance at being an All-Pro LG or RG for years to come. More than any other player in this draft (yes, even Luck), I have confidence that David DeCastro will be a stud at his position in the NFL. I would definitely take him if my team needed a good guard and I was drafting around 10-15 in the 1st round.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I'd absolutely take an elite guard over so-so tackles. If your QB is good, he's going to be stepping into the massive pocket made by your guards.

Look at the Saints, it's a combo of elite interior blocking and Brees ability to step up that keeps our sacks so low.

It's a cheaper alternative as well. You don't need a dominant tackle if you have a great QB, and if you don't have a great QB, you should be looking for that anyway.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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As long as he ends up a Titan, I don't care.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Decastro has stated he wants to be a Titan and other teams should stay away....

Wait, or was that a dream?
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Around 15 is generally their peak but since teams wouldn't be paying a guard 40 million now as they would have prior to the new CBA it seems much more reasonable in my eyes
I don't think you'll just see it with guard, either. I think you'll see 1st round RBs get a little more value again, too. Safety, too. It was already a fast rising position in terms of draft value, this should just put it over the top.

I think you'll see a lot more pure BAP in the 1st round of this draft (and going forward).
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I don't think you'll just see it with guard, either. I think you'll see 1st round RBs get a little more value again, too. Safety, too. It was already a fast rising position in terms of draft value, this should just put it over the top.

I think you'll see a lot more pure BAP in the 1st round of this draft (and going forward).
In that case, DeCastro should absolutely be a top 10 pick. He's a top 10 talent regardless of position this draft.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I didn't like the "OT is the most valuable position" argument before, but now with the new CBA it is all but moot. If you want to build the line and a player of DeCastros talent is there, you take him. You're trying to make the best line possible, and I don't think that we should be stuck in the same thought process of "positional value" that we used to have. It just doesn't matter as much anymore.

He should go top 10. He could be a true difference maker at the next level and that is all that should matter.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I didn't like the "OT is the most valuable position" argument before, but now with the new CBA it is all but moot. If you want to build the line and a player of DeCastros talent is there, you take him. You're trying to make the best line possible, and I don't think that we should be stuck in the same thought process of "positional value" that we used to have. It just doesn't matter as much anymore.
Bingo.

Also, teams that have taken top LTs haven't recently really haven't seen any return on investment at all in terms of wins and losses. The last generation of HOF LTs really spoiled both fans and teams. There are no Ogdens/Paces/Roafs/Jonses in the league anymore.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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People wouldn't know what to do if another Orlando Pace did come along. The guy got Heisman votes as an offensive lineman. And he was so damn well rounded. Elitely well rounded. He was as big of part of the "Greatest Show on Turf" as any of Warner, Holt, Faulk, Bruce, Az, etc.

I would seriously love to see another guy like that come along.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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People wouldn't know what to do if another Orlando Pace did come along. The guy got Heisman votes as an offensive lineman. And he was so damn well rounded. Elitely well rounded. He was as big of part of the "Greatest Show on Turf" as any of Warner, Holt, Faulk, Bruce, Az, etc.

I would seriously love to see another guy like that come along.
They were all so ridiculously good. I remember Walter Jones getting beat off the edge, and he just spun around and ran the guy upfield. Unreal athleticism. Crazy how good all of those guys were, all playing at the same time. Made me take it for granted.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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The Chiefs OL in the 2000s was one of the best I've ever seen and I seriously took it for granted. When Roaf retired I couldn't fathom how our then starting LT gave up a sack. Man, I'm not sure we'll see a line that good again.

Roaf - Waters - Wiegmann - Shields - Tait

fapfapfap. :(
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
The Chiefs OL in the 2000s was one of the best I've ever seen and I seriously took it for granted. When Roaf retired I couldn't fathom how our then starting LT gave up a sack. Man, I'm not sure we'll see a line that good again.

Roaf - Waters - Wiegmann - Shields - Tait

fapfapfap. :(
If only you had a defense or WR worth a god damn. That puntless playoff game against the Colts was ridiculous.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:11 PM    (permalink
DraftSavant
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
The Chiefs OL in the 2000s was one of the best I've ever seen and I seriously took it for granted. When Roaf retired I couldn't fathom how our then starting LT gave up a sack. Man, I'm not sure we'll see a line that good again.

Roaf - Waters - Wiegmann - Shields - Tait

fapfapfap. :(
So ridiculously good. God, that was a fun offense to watch if you loved power football.

Also, Tony Boselli could have gone down as the best in that group of tackles if Jacksonville doctors hadn't of completely botched his ******* shoulders.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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If only you had a defense or WR worth a god damn. That puntless playoff game against the Colts was ridiculous.
Yeah, neither team needed to field a D that game. I wonder how far we could have gone had we been matched up against anyone else. Blah.

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So ridiculously good. God, that was a fun offense to watch if you loved power football.

Also, Tony Boselli could have gone down as the best in that group of tackles if Jacksonville doctors hadn't of completely botched his ******* shoulders.
I'm not sure that he isn't the best tackle from that group as it stands right now. His career was much shorter but the guy was flat out dominant in every aspect.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Around 15 is generally their peak but since teams wouldn't be paying a guard 40 million now as they would have prior to the new CBA it seems much more reasonable in my eyes
The draft process didn't change priorities when the rookie salaries skyrocketed, primary position players were in great demand prior to the huge rookie salary era and they will be in great demand now that a rookie salary cap is in place. People are under the impression that huge rookie salaries changed how the draft functioned but the truth is, the priorities before the huge rookie salaries really didn't change once rookies started making huge amounts of money, for the simple reason that the model to build a winning team never changed a whole lot from era to era.
Can a player like DeCastros go higher than say 15, I'd say yes, if he is rated that high as a prospect, for talent rankings will always come into play after the talented guys who play primary positions have been chosen, so it will depend on just how many top 15 types are in this year's draft. I do agree that the rookie salary cap at least makes it possible to draft an OG higher without destroying your team's cap structure.
Is DeCastros that type of prospect, I'm not completely sure, we'll have to see him perform at the combine to establish just how good a prospect he is. Too much can be hidden in a college system to be sure at this stage that he actually rates that high. This of course, holds for most OL prospects not just DeCastros.
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