2012 Chiefs Draft Discussion - Page 5

bored of education · 10-19-2011, 08:22 PM

OH RLY. I thought it was gonna be ...................

bored of education · 10-19-2011, 08:22 PM

OH RLY. I thought it was gonna be ...................

vidae · 10-19-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

Nick Wright? The same guy who broke the Baldwin fight?

The same guy who said Baldwin started it because he is a troublemaker, only for us to find out later from sources a HELL of a lot more credible that Thomas Jones sucker punched him? Yeah, that Nick Wright. He's a hack. I've taken dumps that are more reliable sources of information.

nepg · 10-19-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

Nope. Everyone said Okung. Even Schefter.

That was what people thought they were going to do...except Chiefs fans here. They kept trying to make the Pioli-Ferentz connection and had zero knowledge of the Chiefs' actual roster or why they had problems with pass protection.

It was always Berry or McClain despite what people thought they were going to do.

Peter King said Pioli would never draft a safety based off of nothing. He was making up stories, and Nick Wright even misquoted him and added extra bits to the story that are completely false.

Nick Wright also FALSELY reported the Baldwin fight and then continued to slander the guy. When the dust settled, it was actually Jamaal Charles causing the problem and Thomas Jones sucker punching Baldwin.

Fact is, King and then Wright ran wild (and still continue to do so) based off of a smoke screen setup by Thomas Dmitroff. It'd be hilarious if people didn't eat up everything those two moron say.

KCStud · 10-20-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

That was what people thought they were going to do...except Chiefs fans here. They kept trying to make the Pioli-Ferentz connection and had zero knowledge of the Chiefs' actual roster or why they had problems with pass protection.

It was always Berry or McClain despite what people thought they were going to do.

Peter King said Pioli would never draft a safety based off of nothing. He was making up stories, and Nick Wright even misquoted him and added extra bits to the story that are completely false.

Nick Wright also FALSELY reported the Baldwin fight and then continued to slander the guy. When the dust settled, it was actually Jamaal Charles causing the problem and Thomas Jones sucker punching Baldwin.

Fact is, King and then Wright ran wild (and still continue to do so) based off of a smoke screen setup by Thomas Dmitroff. It'd be hilarious if people didn't eat up everything those two moron say.

I believe you guys. I personally thought the pick would be McClain.

Pioli visited USC's practice yesterday. I can see him looking at TJ McDonald. Can you guys imagine McDonald teamed with Berry next year? Wow

nepg · 10-20-2011, 02:53 AM

Another high pick at S would be a good move. They've had injury issues with both Lewis and Berry, and it's really nice for a DC to have 3 good ones that can play various roles and even be on the field together in Nickel and Dime packages.

nepg · 10-20-2011, 04:04 AM

There's really a lot of different ways the Chiefs can go in this draft. I expect an impact player in the first round. Pioli always looks for a major contributor (pref. starter) with the first pick. So we're talking ILB (it's almost pointless to draft an ILB after the first because Belcher isn't all that bad), RB (Richardson), maybe a CB... A RT would be situational - it really depends on how Richardson/Gaither finish the year. Gaither is obviously Gaither, and Richardson is always just on the cusp of being a very good RT who might also be a better player on the left side.

After the first round, the focus changes quite a bit because the probability of finding players that can take Belcher's or Richardson/Gaither's jobs isn't so high. CB is just a position you always look for (especially with Carr still yet to be extended), and RB is something they need at some point in the draft (I'd say by Round 4). TE is a big need, but I'm not very familiar with this TE class. Seems a bit weaker than recent drafts. They should keep Pope and Moeaki is a solid blocker, so it really helps that they aren't too restricted with the type of TE they need.

I like McGraw and I like Sabby Piscitelli, but I don't like them both on the same roster. A solid S to group with Lewis and Berry would be a great move. The position has become so important in the NFL with the rule changes of recent years.

OL depth is a fun need for the Chiefs this year. The starters are mostly set, so Pioli gets to bring in some guys that might be a little more raw, but have strong potential at G/T and C/G.

They're going to have a chance to add a lot of depth, and it should be a great draft.

vidae · 10-20-2011, 10:10 AM

First round: QB
Second round: RT
Third-Seventh: Depth

Win!

villagewarrior · 10-20-2011, 01:01 PM

I think the Chiefs really need to get better along the lines primarily. Right tackle is a need. Defensive end is a need. Dorsey does pretty well playing out of position but he's not cut out for a 34 end. They have to get more players in the trenches before they really worry about linebackers or whatnot.

I do still think the Chiefs should take a look at one of the QBs if they have a premium first round pick. I'm extremely fascinated by Robert Griffin, the athleticism and accuracy is fantastic from the little of him I've been able to see.

Splat · 10-20-2011, 01:07 PM

It's pretty sad that with all the time,money and draft picks they have put in to the DL that it's still average.

KCStud · 10-20-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

There's really a lot of different ways the Chiefs can go in this draft. I expect an impact player in the first round. Pioli always looks for a major contributor (pref. starter) with the first pick. So we're talking ILB (it's almost pointless to draft an ILB after the first because Belcher isn't all that bad), RB (Richardson), maybe a CB... A RT would be situational - it really depends on how Richardson/Gaither finish the year. Gaither is obviously Gaither, and Richardson is always just on the cusp of being a very good RT who might also be a better player on the left side.

After the first round, the focus changes quite a bit because the probability of finding players that can take Belcher's or Richardson/Gaither's jobs isn't so high. CB is just a position you always look for (especially with Carr still yet to be extended), and RB is something they need at some point in the draft (I'd say by Round 4). TE is a big need, but I'm not very familiar with this TE class. Seems a bit weaker than recent drafts. They should keep Pope and Moeaki is a solid blocker, so it really helps that they aren't too restricted with the type of TE they need.

I like McGraw and I like Sabby Piscitelli, but I don't like them both on the same roster. A solid S to group with Lewis and Berry would be a great move. The position has become so important in the NFL with the rule changes of recent years.

OL depth is a fun need for the Chiefs this year. The starters are mostly set, so Pioli gets to bring in some guys that might be a little more raw, but have strong potential at G/T and C/G.

They're going to have a chance to add a lot of depth, and it should be a great draft.

I agree, but the only ILB I can see us taking is Manti Te'o. Him and Burfict are the only first round ILB's big enough to take. I hope Burfict is not on this team. He's out of control and he is slow on the field. Belcher makes him look slow as molasses.
As of right now, I think RT, S or NT (Ta'amu if his stock rises) are the only real position we would take, and considering Pioli likes to draft OL later in the draft, I think S is a real possibility.

For all the fans who want a QB in the first round, you're going to be disappointed. We aren't going to be in position to draft any of the top 3 and I severely doubt Pioli wants a QB round 1 bc he is Cassel's biggest supporter, he doesn't like giving up picks to move up and we have bigger needs on the team.

I would love it if we got best player available, then built the OL and front 7.
A draft like this would be nice for the

1. TJ McDonald S
2. Donta Hightower ILB
3. Wagner (RT from Wisconsin)
4. TE (in case Moeaki has more problems)
5-7. Depth

nepg · 10-20-2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

It's pretty sad that with all the time,money and draft picks they have put in to the DL that it's still average.

It's really hard to build a 3-4 DL these days. The only real draft picks they have invested in it are Dorsey (shouldn't even count), Jackson, McGee*, Bailey, and Powe... Bailey looked really good the last two games and NTs take time.

Dorsey has regressed and I think Tyson Jackson just lost his athleticism when he bulked up to play the position. It probably is time to trade Dorsey to a 4-3 team and try to grab someone like Crick or some of the Patriots cast-offs (they've developed a bunch of solid 3-4 DLs that they just don't have roster space for).

KCStud · 10-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

It's really hard to build a 3-4 DL these days. The only real draft picks they have invested in it are Dorsey (shouldn't even count), Jackson, McGee*, Bailey, and Powe... Bailey looked really good the last two games and NTs take time.

Dorsey has regressed and I think Tyson Jackson just lost his athleticism when he bulked up to play the position. It probably is time to trade Dorsey to a 4-3 team and try to grab someone like Crick or some of the Patriots cast-offs (they've developed a bunch of solid 3-4 DLs that they just don't have roster space for).

Surprisingly Jackson has played well this year. He looks like he could be solid. He was hurt last year and I think that hurt him a lot.
I agree that we should get what we can for Dorsey. He is not working for us.

onejayhawk · 10-21-2011, 08:53 PM

Assuming, as I do, that the Chiefs win this week, we need to change the title of this thread. We are already out of the Luck race, but 3 wins would make it obvious.

J

onejayhawk · 10-21-2011, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

Surprisingly Jackson has played well this year. He looks like he could be solid. He was hurt last year and I think that hurt him a lot.
I agree that we should get what we can for Dorsey. He is not working for us.

Its not surprising. He has learned the system finally. Some players are just slow studies.

Dorsey, to the contrary, is our best defender. I like the possibilities of Alpha Bailey in the long run, but Dorsey is where we start our defense right now.

J

KaneMarko · 10-24-2011, 02:01 PM

Still early in the season. But the latest Chiefs' roll has me thinking about the draft. More specifically what we need.

Now, I'm not a huge Cassel fan. Personally, I'd be trying to find a guy with more upside as I think Cassel is a "caretaker" type QB along the lines of Steve DeBerg/Dave Krieg. You can certainly win with that type of QB. It's hard. But it has been done before (see the Bucs and Ravens from earlier in the last decade). But Cassel, IMO, is the type of QB that's going to need a lot of things around him to be effective. And maybe that's the Chiefs' plan. On paper, the Chiefs have a lot of tools with a lot of potential in the cupboards. And it's all young (Bowe, Baldwin, Charles, Breaston, Moeaki). So maybe that's the plan. Go with Cassel who is a "good enough" and surround him with enough talent to be effective?

I say that to say that I'm not sure I see the Chiefs going for a QB early in the draft (unless the bottom falls out of this team in the last 10 games of the season). I think they should if one is available. But I'm not sure I see it.

Having said that, who would/should, the Chiefs go with based on what data we have available now?

Well, like I said, I can easily see the Chiefs sticking by Cassel unless he and/or the team melts down the rest of the way. If that's the case, then I think the Chiefs need to keep loading up on the defense. I think they need another offensive lineman or two. But I really see holes at NT and ILB next to DJ. For whatever reason Jerrell Powe cannot get on the field. The Chiefs have instead gone with Gregg (who is playing better than I thought he would) and Ammon Gordon at NT. Ammon Gordon? So I'm curious why Powe cannot even suit up. He's the biggest guy we have on the roster next to maybe Gaither. So that's curious.

So if I can't have a QB with more upside than Cassel, can I get Alameda Ta'amu or Vontaz Burfict? I'm kind of cooling on Burfict some. I haven't been overly impressed with his play of late. But I still LOVE his intensity. Which is something I think this defense needs more of.

I'm leaning more towards Alameda Ta'amu because I feel in this two-gapping style of defense we need a dominator at the 0-tech. The Pats, ever since they went to the Fairbanks 3-4, they always seemed to have one. Be it Mount Washington or Vince Wilfork. To date, we haven't been able to find that. Like I said, Kelly Gregg has played better than I thought he would. But he's not a long term fix and he's on a one year deal. And Ammon Gordon, a journeyman, sits in front of Powe on the depth chart. So I feel there is a hole at NT that needs a long term fix.

Like I said, we have needs at ILB and O-Line and depth at a number of places. But on paper, we're looking pretty good in the future with the foundation we have in place. Assuming we can re-sign the homegrown talent we've drafted and developed.

KaneMarko · 10-24-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCStud

I agree, but the only ILB I can see us taking is Manti Te'o. Him and Burfict are the only first round ILB's big enough to take. I hope Burfict is not on this team. He's out of control and he is slow on the field. Belcher makes him look slow as molasses.
As of right now, I think RT, S or NT (Ta'amu if his stock rises) are the only real position we would take, and considering Pioli likes to draft OL later in the draft, I think S is a real possibility.

For all the fans who want a QB in the first round, you're going to be disappointed. We aren't going to be in position to draft any of the top 3 and I severely doubt Pioli wants a QB round 1 bc he is Cassel's biggest supporter, he doesn't like giving up picks to move up and we have bigger needs on the team.

I would love it if we got best player available, then built the OL and front 7.
A draft like this would be nice for the

1. TJ McDonald S
2. Donta Hightower ILB
3. Wagner (RT from Wisconsin)
4. TE (in case Moeaki has more problems)
5-7. Depth

I'm a HUGE Don'ta Hightower fan. But if he comes out, do you see him being there when we pick in the second? He has issues (takes plays off), but it's hard to find LBs his size with his versatility and athleticism. I'd be doing backflips if he did. That way we could possible take the big NT from Washingon Ta'amu in the first. A true dominator at NT and a true ILB to go along side DJ are the only thinkgs missing from this defense IMO.

nepg · 10-24-2011, 03:27 PM

Powe can't get on the field most-likely because Kelley Gregg is a beast, Amon Gordon has a lot of experience, and it's nearly impossible for rookie NTs to contribute much. Wilfork didn't play much sitting behind Keith Traylor and BJ Raji played DE in his first year while he learned the NT position.

Looking at the positions they could upgrade in the first round (starter)...

Offense: RB, TE, RT (slight bit of luxury for the OT, imo)
Defense: ILB, S (maybe), 3rd CB

The options are pretty well-narrowed, in my estimation. Past the first round, there's all kinds of things they need to do. But after the first round, it's not likely that they'll be able to upgrade over Belcher or Richardson in my opinion.

I like the ILB's (Teo, Burfict, Kuechly), Trent Richardson, and Dwayne Allen (TE, Clemson)as possible first round picks for the Chiefs.

Splat · 10-24-2011, 08:45 PM

Watching the MNF game and thinking this...

I wish the Chiefs would have took Mount Cody in the second round like all the mocks said they would...

TonyGfortheTD · 10-25-2011, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

Watching the MNF game and thinking this...

I wish the Chiefs would have took Mount Cody in the second round like all the mocks said they would...

I don't blame Scott from taking a pass on Mount Cody, but passing on him for Dexter McCluster still makes my head hurt when I think about it.

vidae · 10-25-2011, 12:08 AM

There is no way that QB is still not this teams #1 need. There just isn't. If we can trade back, snag another pick or two, and grab someone like RG3 or Tannehill, we HAVE to do it.

Cassel struggled against a really bad set of DBs (who were missing a few to injury, too) and he doesn't elevate his play based on the opponents.

NT is not a need. Powe will be fine. ILB is a need, but in the second. QB is our biggest need and it isn't close.

nepg · 10-25-2011, 01:35 AM

Eh... Cassel didn't have a very good game, but they got up early and were pretty conservative the rest of the way (which is what this team does...we know that). He was 8/13 for 96 yards in the first quarter. They threw the ball sporadically after that. On both touchdowns, they ran the ball and got it on the first play...

He had one really bad throw, but was pretty solid otherwise. The Hail Mary INT makes things look worse than they were, and there were issues with Baldwin running the wrong routes (he'll learn) and Cassel would just throw the ball away when that happened.

They only threw the ball like 6 times in the second half.

TonyGfortheTD · 10-25-2011, 02:48 AM

Watching him stare down the rush and chuck the check down with a wide open player waving his arms and being ignored is getting very old.

Splat · 10-25-2011, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

NT is not a need. Powe will be fine.

How do you know that? We all hope for the best but he is still a questionmark.

KaneMarko · 10-25-2011, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidae

There is no way that QB is still not this teams #1 need. There just isn't. If we can trade back, snag another pick or two, and grab someone like RG3 or Tannehill, we HAVE to do it.

Cassel struggled against a really bad set of DBs (who were missing a few to injury, too) and he doesn't elevate his play based on the opponents.

NT is not a need. Powe will be fine. ILB is a need, but in the second. QB is our biggest need and it isn't close.

IMO QB is a huge need. But I'm just not sure I see the Chiefs replacing Cassel. They had a chance in 09 with Freeman and Sanchez but elected to go with Tyson Jackson instead. IMO Cassel isn't a bad QB. He's just not one that's going to carry a team. Like I said, he's more Dave Krieg/Steve DeBerg than Aaron Rodgers/Tom Brady. Which is fine if you plan to be like the Ravens from the early 2000s. Me, I'd prefer to try to find and develop an upper echelon QB. But that's just me.