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Old 10-11-2011, 04:07 PM    (permalink
JHL6719
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Default Is Crabtree a bust?

What's the deal with this guy?

Is he primarily held back by the QB situation, or has that just been an excuse? Is his effort level, concentration, and work ethic where it should be?

What's holding this guy back? His surroundings or himself?


Discuss/
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:10 PM    (permalink
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He's not a bust yet. He's missed two training camps because of injury and his rookie holdout screwed him over. This is the first time the offense is looking decent and he has a chance to shine. Especially now that Morgan is injured. He'll have to step up. We'll see. He's looking more like a Keyshawn Johnson in terms of what he brings to the table in terms of skillset, which is what I was afraid of. He doesn't get that much separation down the field. He's more a possession receiver. Hakeem Nicks is looking like the better pick at this point, but we'll see.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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I have not seen him play this year, but I don't think you would want to give up on him too early in his career. I know this is the NFL, but he had shown at Tech he was capable of putting the team on his back before we found out he was a "Diva". He has a nice receiving supporting cast to not warrant any double-teams, which is a plus for him to dominate a 1 on 1 match up whenever he can.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Long live Darrius Heyward-Bay yay!
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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At this point I seriously wouldn't say he is much better than DHB. At least DHB has made improvements over the past few years, everytime I see Crabtree he just looks the same. Doesn't have the speed to out run CBs, seems more like a #2 possession WR type.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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At this point I seriously wouldn't say he is much better than DHB. At least DHB has made improvements over the past few years, everytime I see Crabtree he just looks the same. Doesn't have the speed to out run CBs, seems more like a #2 possession WR type.
I would seriously say that DHB is better at this point. Crabtree runs poor routes, has sketchy hands at best and isn't athletic enough to consistently get open. Not to mention that he seems cocky and self-entitled and doesn't seem to want to work very hard.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Five posts in and it sounds like lack of talent is actually winning out as the biggest issue, coupled with perhaps a hint of self entitlement and lack of desire to be the best he can be.

Very interesting.


How surprising is it that he is what he is thusfar? A lot? Not much?
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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I think it would be a much different story if he was in a different offense with a good qb. If Rodgers were with the 9'ers, i think their offense would look a lot like the GB offense does now. They have talent at the WR position, a top notch TE, and good running game. They just don't have a QB that will allow their WRs to have in your face numbers.
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Old 10-11-2011, 05:59 PM    (permalink
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I think it would be a much different story if he was in a different offense with a good qb. If Rodgers were with the 9'ers, i think their offense would look a lot like the GB offense does now. They have talent at the WR position, a top notch TE, and good running game. They just don't have a QB that will allow their WRs to have in your face numbers.
Not necessarily. What good receivers have the 49ers acquired since Terrell Owens? Everyone was either washed up or was just plain terrible from the beginning. Now the receiver that was looking like he might actually have a breakout campaign is lost for the season and we're stuck with a wildcard in Crabtree. The Packers organization on the other hand has actually had good drafts and management acquiring players like Jennings, Finley, and Jones.

And sometimes it's just the receiver not doing all they can to be the best they can be. Having a good quarterback helps obviously, but at the same time we've seen guys in the past put up decent to very good numbers with up and down quarterback play. Andre Johnson was still a good player before Schaub came along and Issac Bruce was still a good player before Warner was the quarterback.

You have to remember that Crabtree held out his first season missing training camp and the last two year got hurt missing the last two training camps. Combine that with all of the change that has gone on with the organization and it's not hard to see why he hasn't blossomed yet.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I think it would be a much different story if he was in a different offense with a good qb. If Rodgers were with the 9'ers, i think their offense would look a lot like the GB offense does now. They have talent at the WR position, a top notch TE, and good running game. They just don't have a QB that will allow their WRs to have in your face numbers.
If anything it would be that the offense isn't built for WRs to have great numbers but neither that nor the QB is the problem. Crabtree routinely drops passes or runs the wrong route/runs only half of his route. He was literally responsible for six of Smith's 10 interceptions last year.

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Old 10-11-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Andre Johnson is also an elite NFL wr.. Rodgers makes his guys look a lot better than they are, kinda how Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do. If Rodgers had Josh Morgan/Crabs/Braylon/VD to throw to, i think their numbers would be similar to what GBs group of guys produces.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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I didn't really think he would even be what he was hyped to be in the NFL. I could see him having a very mediocre career at best regardless of team. Something doesn't sit right with me watching Crabtree.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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The funny thing is, he has actually played like a different guy the last few weeks. He is going for balls that will get him hit and coming down with them. He took Nnamdi's lunch money and even blocked multiple Bucs on one run to his side.

It seems like the switch has gone on for him and he just may have bought into what Harbaugh is doing. He isn't going to put up huge numbers even if he plays great in this system because the ball just isn't in the air much. Now, he needs to learn how to stay healthy and his lack of top speed will always limit him.

This is coming from one of his biggest critics who wanted him used as shark bait.
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Too soon, really bros?
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Old 10-11-2011, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Andre Johnson is also an elite NFL wr.. Rodgers makes his guys look a lot better than they are, kinda how Peyton Manning and Tom Brady do. If Rodgers had Josh Morgan/Crabs/Braylon/VD to throw to, i think their numbers would be similar to what GBs group of guys produces.
Right. No one is debating that. You're supporting the point I'm trying to convey actually. Andre is a good receiver because he's a good receiver. Just like Issac Bruce was. As for Rodgers, Driver was good before Rodgers got there. Greg Jennings showed potential in his rookie season when he only had around 500 yards or something and three touchdowns or whatever. Let's not forget that all of the guys you mentioned have had the opportunity to play in the same system for years. Alex and the other receivers for the 49ers haven't had this luxury. Oh and Braylon is hurt.

Rodgers may make the 49ers receivers have better numbers, but at the same time he's also played in the same system and played with a lot of the same players for seven years.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:28 PM    (permalink
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Five posts in and it sounds like lack of talent is actually winning out as the biggest issue, coupled with perhaps a hint of self entitlement and lack of desire to be the best he can be.

Very interesting.


How surprising is it that he is what he is thusfar? A lot? Not much?
Don't jump to that conclusion after 5 posts.


I'd say the biggest reasons have been...

1. Lack of cohesion with QB. Zero TC in 3 years.
2. Poor Offensive gameplanning until this year.
3. Lack of opportunities this year. He has looked great whenever he gets the ball. Davis and Morgan have been Smith's go-to guys, which harkens back to point number 1.


I strongly argue against "talent" or "work-ethic" having anything to do with his performance (lack-there-of.)
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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I didn't realize Crabtree essentially hasn't had a TC for three seasons. That's critical for a young WR in building a rapport and confidence between himself and the starting QB.

I haven't seen enough of the 49ers this season, but I'm wondering how do people compare Brandon Lloyd and Crabs athletically and skill wise??

For some reason I assumed they were similar players, but maybe not.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Feel free to peruse nearly every-single catch from his first 2 seasons (all but 4 receptions, 3 in 2009 and 1 in 2010, all for negative yards.)...

2009


2010
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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He's slow and doesn't break tackles.
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Old 10-11-2011, 11:30 PM    (permalink
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There's a couple issues with Crabtree

-Has a questionable head on his shoulders
-Doesn't have elite physical tools
-Injuries
-QB Play

So for where he was in college, where he was drafted...yes he's a bust so far. Not the worst player ever but not worth the pick.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:52 AM    (permalink
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Was never a big fan. Showed numerous warning signs that made it clear he wasn't an elite WR prospect.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
I didn't realize Crabtree essentially hasn't had a TC for three seasons. That's critical for a young WR in building a rapport and confidence between himself and the starting QB.

I haven't seen enough of the 49ers this season, but I'm wondering how do people compare Brandon Lloyd and Crabs athletically and skill wise??

For some reason I assumed they were similar players, but maybe not.
Lloyd may have better hands. Well...he makes a lot of ridiculous catches, but at the same time he used to drop the really easy passes. Not sure if he's still doing that. Crabtree is fairly physical and when his focus is on, he's really good at catching the football.

Lloyd has bounced around the league and had one good year which I don't expect him to come close to repeating now that McDaniels is gone. He might be the next Peerless Price.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:32 AM    (permalink
BigBanger
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Crabtree will be a bust. That's my prediction. When all is said and done, he'll be a bust. Is he there yet? No, it's still too early and right now he's merely a disappointment.

Why is he a disappointment?
Obviously he was viewed as the best WR in his draft class. That simply is not the case and was not the case. He was viewed as a borderline elite prospect for his position and he was compared to guys way out of his class of talent (Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, ect.) from previous draft classes. He is not and was not an elite, franchise WR prospect. He simply wasn't. He possessed no physical tools to be great. Simply didn't have them. He was more of a possession WR, a #2 with inconsistent hands, no top end speed and almost no ball skills, leaping ability, body control, ect. The Cleveland Browns crushed his character prior to the draft and called him a diva. He made those accusations seem accurate by holding out and demanding to be paid like the first WR drafted, which he wasn't. He had foot injuries before the draft and they have not gone away. Now he's on a team that's been almost dead last in passing the last three years. He's not going to have the numbers to make even the people who don't watch him think he's a really good player. His situation, where he was drafted, lackluster production, little signs of getting better and the expectations people had for him have made him a disappointment thus far in his career.

Why do I think he's going to fall from disappointment to eventual bust?
First, let me say that calling him a bust does not automatically mean he can't or wont ever become a good, productive player. You can be a good player and still be a bust. Where he was drafted and what people thought he was going to be ... that's what will make him a bust, because he simply wasn't what people thought he was going to be. EX: Reggie Bush is a good player in the NFL, but he was drafted and paid to be special. He's a bust. There's no two ways around it.

Now as I said earlier, Crabtree does not have the natural playmaking talent of a bona fide #1 WR. He doesn't have it. You watch him and you compare him to guys like Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Miles Austin, Greg Jennings, Dwayne Bowe, Dez Bryant, Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks, Mike Wallace, Vincent Jackson, AJ Green ... those are more of the prototypical #1 WRs in the NFL. They, for the most part, have the ideal size, good to great speed and, most importantly, the ball skills to, at any given time, just out jump a defender and say, "I'm better than you, and you can't stop this." That is not Crabtree. That is not his game. He struggles to get vertical. He doesn't have the speed to take the top off a defense and he doesn't have the ball skills to win the 50/50 jump balls like most of those guys do. He works the short to intermediate portion of the field and mostly relies on his run after the catch. That's who he is. He's a complimentary receiver to one of those guys. And if he falls in a perfect scenario, he can go over 1,000 yards and push 10 TDs in a season. In the perfect situation, he can probably develop that type of production (as long as he would want to).

But most importantly, why he'll bust: Look at his draft class. He made a big fuss about the guy that went ahead of him. Well DHB is outplaying him right now and has more talent than Crabtree, which is the only reason why the Raiders took a second/third developmental WR with the 7th overall pick: SPEED = POTENTIAL. DHB is still raw, still inconsistent, but that one trick he has is more devastating that catching 6 passes underneath for 58 yards. DHB doesn't have the greatest QB situation in the world right now and in year three, DHB is playing better than Crabtree. That's the first player you look at and the first player you compare to Crabtree. And right now, that Oakland picking isn't looking like such an awful pick, which I still believe was a terrible pick.

But you move further down the list of WRs drafted in that class and look at some of the players that went at the end of round 1 (Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks). If you compare them to Crabtree, well, there is no comparison. Those are a couple of talented monsters with some real stud potential. Britt appears to be the most talented of the entire draft class and has some serious ability to be one of the elite WRs in the NFL. Nicks, who was my personal favorite of the class, doesn't have the ability to separate on a consistent basis like Britt has shown, but he has more talent than Crabtree and some ridiculously strong hands. He's a beast in the red zone and dangerous after the catch. He's had some great production through his first three years that drastically trumps Crabtree. Those two are going to be better players since they have much more upside over Crabtree and show that they are well on their way to becoming excellent NFL players. When you compare him against those two alone, he automatically gets pushed to the edge of calling him a bust. Then you look further down the draft and you find more players that are playing better than him and are more talented. Then it becomes a no brainer, he's a bust.

You have the most productive receiver of this class taken in the third round: Mike Wallace. Mike Wallace is one of the fastest men in the NFL and an absolute WEAPON on offense. Crabtree simply cannot compare to Wallace' speed and game breaking ability. Crabtree probably wont ever have a season even comparable to what Wallace did last year, and Wallace already has more than half the amount of catches he did all of last year through only 5 games.

You go back to round 1 and find a productive player in Jeremy Maclin. Austin Collie is a good solid slot WR. Mike Thomas is developing into a solid player. Crabtree is among those guys right now. A solid contributor. You don't draft solid players 10th overall. You don't draft a WR 10th overall for him to be a good complimentary WR. You don't draft a WR 10th overall that isn't even the 3rd or 4th best WR in his own draft class. The 49ers drafted a second round talent in the top 10. That's what will make Crabtree a bust.


Damn I didn't mean for that to be so long. I get carried away with that WR class.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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He's slow and doesn't break tackles.
He's not a burner, but he's not slow. And breaking tackles was never his forte even coming out of college. He wasn't touted as the next Terrell Owens or Andre Reed.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:35 AM    (permalink
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Yeah Big Banger I'm not reading that.
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