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Old 04-06-2012, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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How would you guys feel about drafting Kirkpatrick as a straight up heir apparent to Reed in round one?

I like his size and ability to play zone, and he certainly can lay the lumber in run support. While he waits in the wing he can add to ST and nickel/dime situations.

With Ed Reed's recent comments, I am less certain than I was before that he would be a Raven as long as he is healthy and an heir may need to be groomed sooner rather than later.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I'm not a fan of drafting CBs high with the intent on moving them to S. Their track record isn't very good right now. The best example is probably Malcolm Jenkins and he's not really that great. Other than that there's the likes of Charles Godfrey, Amari Spievey, and...? Just doesn't seem to be a very successful transition.

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IMO Harrison Smith can play center field just fine. He and Ed Reed actually had the exact same 40 time coming out. He's great at breaking up the deep ball, both because he covers a lot of ground due to his speed/stride and because he's good at reading the quarterback.
Is that supposed to mean Smith can cover as much ground as Reed used to be able to? I think Smith could cover deep if he only had to cover half the field, but not what he would be needed to do if Pollard was the guy next to him. Now if the team doesn't envision Pollard as the SS for the next few years and they brought somebody else in that can play in space then it's a different story.
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:46 PM    (permalink
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Is that supposed to mean Smith can cover as much ground as Reed used to be able to? I think Smith could cover deep if he only had to cover half the field, but not what he would be needed to do if Pollard was the guy next to him. Now if the team doesn't envision Pollard as the SS for the next few years and they brought somebody else in that can play in space then it's a different story.
No, it's just another reference to his speed, which I think people are severely underrating just because he's white. It's become common to pigeonhole him as an in the box guy because his size and people's misguided doubts about his athleticism. His greatest asset in pass coverage is his ability to play centerfield by himself. He diagnoses plays well and his speed and length allow him to recover if he's out of position or make a play on the ball if he times it well. His weakness is when you take him out of playing zone and make him cover from in the box or line him up across from the slot on quick throws down the seem. But as far as playing safety in cover three or man under with 8 in the box, that's what he excels at.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/3/3...rst-round-pick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNzJLyu_G4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0t11dVsS7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1AVUE6XqU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RYHD...eature=related
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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No, it's just another reference to his speed, which I think people are severely underrating just because he's white. It's become common to pigeonhole him as an in the box guy because his size and people's misguided doubts about his athleticism. His greatest asset in pass coverage is his ability to play centerfield by himself. He diagnoses plays well and his speed and length allow him to recover if he's out of position or make a play on the ball if he times it well. His weakness is when you take him out of playing zone and make him cover from in the box or line him up across from the slot on quick throws down the seem. But as far as playing safety in cover three or man under with 8 in the box, that's what he excels at.

http://www.thephinsider.com/2012/3/3...rst-round-pick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rNzJLyu_G4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0t11dVsS7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm1AVUE6XqU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RYHD...eature=related
Oh yeah that's exactly why I don't think he could play the role we would need him to. I don't like the angles he takes in the open field nor do I think he has much lateral quickness. His straight-line speed is nice, but that's not all I want out of the successor to Reed. Those videos aren't exactly a good backup to your argument that he can play in a Cover1/Cover 3 type of role that he would be playing either. He was rarely the only safety playing deep and even then it wasn't that common to see him actually doing it. Lining up in man-coverage seems to be a problem for him. A few of those interceptions from his junior year we're great highlight-reel plays. I like Smith when he's attacking the run though, if we needed a SS he would be great.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:36 PM    (permalink
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Apparently we had Stephen Hill in for a visit this week.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah that's exactly why I don't think he could play the role we would need him to. I don't like the angles he takes in the open field nor do I think he has much lateral quickness. His straight-line speed is nice, but that's not all I want out of the successor to Reed. Those videos aren't exactly a good backup to your argument that he can play in a Cover1/Cover 3 type of role that he would be playing either. He was rarely the only safety playing deep and even then it wasn't that common to see him actually doing it. Lining up in man-coverage seems to be a problem for him. A few of those interceptions from his junior year we're great highlight-reel plays. I like Smith when he's attacking the run though, if we needed a SS he would be great.
Well, it doesn't seem like we'll come to an agreement on this so let's just hope if he does come to Baltimore he turns out to be a great player.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:11 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a fan of drafting CBs high with the intent on moving them to S. Their track record isn't very good right now. The best example is probably Malcolm Jenkins and he's not really that great. Other than that there's the likes of Charles Godfrey, Amari Spievey, and...? Just doesn't seem to be a very successful transition.
I mean there are more than just that, there is Antrel Rolle, Eugene Wilson come to mind recently. Rod Woodson and Ronnie Lott both made transitions to safety after starting out at CB.

I'm not saying that it's easy but I think that the best case scenario for such a switch might be drafting a young, athletic and talented guy who excels in both zone and run support who wouldn't have to actually see the field for a year or two while making the transition.

Lets face it, there is a shortage of safeties coming out of the draft these days (I believe last years had the fewest prospects since the 2000 draft IIRC). This may be our best shot at developing a true safety to take over for Reed.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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Guys like Rolle and Woodson made the transition to S after playing CB in the NFL though, it was more of a necessity than anything. I just don't view it the same way as taking a prospect high and converting him. The safety classes have been underwhelming recently (besides a few top prospect types) but I still wouldn't resort to this kind of move. To be honest I really don't think that we need an elite/great safety for the defense to be good.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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Guys like Rolle and Woodson made the transition to S after playing CB in the NFL though, it was more of a necessity than anything. I just don't view it the same way as taking a prospect high and converting him. The safety classes have been underwhelming recently (besides a few top prospect types) but I still wouldn't resort to this kind of move. To be honest I really don't think that we need an elite/great safety for the defense to be good.
I don't either which is why I wouldn't mind a Rolle or a Malcom Jenkins. The problem is that I DO think we need some kind of safety who can at least cover half the field deep.

Unfortunately, there is such a dearth of such talent coming out in the draft (and in the league for that matter) that I could easily see this becoming a trend over the next decade or so.

It wouldn't necessarily be my first option, but I wouldn't mind it.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:13 AM    (permalink
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posted this in the old thread by accident.


The draft is getting close I still don't have a great idea of who we're going to take. There's just a ton of different directions. It's tricky because at everyone of our biggest needs outside of LT and C, there is a young guy there who could potentially develop into a successful starter. Let's say there's no LT worthy of the pick and Konz is gone...


LG - It's hard to know what to make of this. It really depends how serious they are about this Jah experiment. I'm in favor of it and the team sounds quite enthused about it but do they or don't they have enough faith in him not to take a guy like Zeitler 29th overall? What happens when they get to camp and Jah is doing a better job than the guard drafted at 29?

WR - Could use a #3 who can develop into a starting outside WR. Could Tandon Doss or David Reed that guy? Neither has had a full off-season with the team yet.

ILB - No standouts but Ellerbe and McClain were both re-signed and both performed fairly well that year. Could use more depth of talent but a round one priority?

OLB - I really don't think we'll lose a step with Kruges. Maybe a bit of a drop off vs the run but certainly an improvement as a pass rusher. I could easily see an 8+ sack season from him. Could be a very solid starter for us but still a bit of an unknown but does he need to be replaced by a first round player?

S - Who? Harrison Smith as a depth guy at 29? Maybe but it seems unlikely.


WR appears to be the most glaring of those needs though if it isn't Randall, Wright, Hill or Jeffery (I like him but his league value is a question mark - I'm not sure if he'll go mid 1 or mid 2), the value seems would be quite questionable. If there was someone who was a great value who fell through the cracks, that's certainly something we'd have to strongly consider regardless of position. If neither value was there, a trade back into the early 2nd would make sense or possibly even a trade up if someone like Cordy or maybe Kuechly falls into the early 20's/late teens.


If I had to project what I think will happen, it'd be something like this in this order.

1. LT (Adams, Glenn[LG], Reiff[also could play LG short term])
2. LG/C (Konz, Zeitler)/WR/Highest rated player on the board regardless of position (someone like Upshaw maybe?)
3. Trade back - reevaluate board
4. Bad board, can't trade out, have to make a dark horse pick (Kendricks, Silatolu, Martin [eww], McClellin, Hightower or even Mitchell Schwartz)
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:14 AM    (permalink
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LG - It's hard to know what to make of this. It really depends how serious they are about this Jah experiment. I'm in favor of it and the team sounds quite enthused about it but do they or don't they have enough faith in him not to take a guy like Zeitler 29th overall? What happens when they get to camp and Jah is doing a better job than the guard drafted at 29?
Considering the interior depth of this draft, I would only really want to take a guard if their name was DeCastro (unlikely) and possibly Glenn depending on the situation. If they are serious about the Jah experiment then we should target one in the middle rounds as an insurance plan.

Quote:
WR - Could use a #3 who can develop into a starting outside WR. Could Tandon Doss or David Reed that guy? Neither has had a full off-season with the team yet.
Wouldn't be a bad option depending on who is there/who is left. Not a top priority in my book.

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ILB - No standouts but Ellerbe and McClain were both re-signed and both performed fairly well that year. Could use more depth of talent but a round one priority?
I think it is definitely a round one priority along with the OL. Problem is that there may be no one there for us to take. Would still like to target Taze in round 4-5.

Quote:
OLB - I really don't think we'll lose a step with Kruges. Maybe a bit of a drop off vs the run but certainly an improvement as a pass rusher. I could easily see an 8+ sack season from him. Could be a very solid starter for us but still a bit of an unknown but does he need to be replaced by a first round player?
I think we have to see where we are with Kruger/Kindle before we decide to move on and take one in round one. Other than Upshaw I really wouldn't be happy with anyone else anyway.

Quote:
S - Who? Harrison Smith as a depth guy at 29? Maybe but it seems unlikely.
I still like the idea of taking Dre if he is there to convert to safety. Would be as close to a blue chip type player that we may be able to get in round one if he is there. He wouldn't need to start right away while making the transition and could learn a thing or two from Reed.

Quote:
If there was someone who was a great value who fell through the cracks, that's certainly something we'd have to strongly consider regardless of position.
This is probably what we see happen. Of all of the prospects we have talked about, one is bound to fall to us and will likely be the one who gets selected.

Quote:
If neither value was there, a trade back into the early 2nd would make sense or possibly even a trade up if someone like Cordy or maybe Kuechly falls into the early 20's/late teens.
Trade up is a possibility but I think Ozzie will likely stay where he is and see who falls to him. Trade down wouldn't be bad but again, chances are someone falls to us.

If I had to project what I think will happen, it'd be something like this in this order.

Quote:
1. LT (Adams, Glenn[LG], Reiff[also could play LG short term])
If Adams Reiff or Glenn falls to us, we probably make the pick. Again, based on who falls to us in the first, this draft may be dedicated to rebuilding the OL or the D.

Quote:
2. LG/C (Konz, Zeitler)/WR/Highest rated player on the board regardless of position (someone like Upshaw maybe?)
I dislike KOnz and think he is a 2nd round talent at best being pushed into the first do to recent draft strategy regarding centers. I also don't like his injury history.

Z is also a 2nd round talent I would dislike taking considering positional depth in this draft. WR might be a last ditch option.

Quote:
3. Trade back - reevaluate board
Possible, but I think someone falls to us.

Quote:
4. Bad board, can't trade out, have to make a dark horse pick (Kendricks, Silatolu, Martin [eww], McClellin, Hightower or even Mitchell Schwartz)
I actually wouldn't mind Silatolu in the first if nothing else was available and there wasn't a trade back (if there was a trade back he might be who we target anyway) but I at least wouldn't mind it as I think he will be a VERY good guard in this league.

I think Kendricks is all hype and when I watch film I don't see a guy who can make an immediate contribution and would not be okay spending a first rounder on him. I think he would actually fit better in a JJ type role in our system anyway as he is at his best when he is moving downhill, attacking the LOS.

However, if we were to take an OLB McClellin would be my guy.

Martin is a no, I think the guy plays like a marshmallow.

In the end I'm thinking along the same lines you are:

-If there is a LT you grab him (not mallow boy)

-If not then look to the defensive side of the ball (ILB, S/CB possibly OLB [bleh]); On the same tier, if a big value falls to us (say Glenn).

-Still nothing? Look to trade back

-Can't trade back? Look to WR. Hill could develop into a speedy deep threat, but we already have Torrey to develop into that kind of guy and we don't need another raw WR. Wright may be the best option here.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to trade down and then package some picks to get a third second. Wishful thinking probably, but I think the value in from picks 25 to 55 are fairly similar, and then a substantial drop off after that. We could target OL, LB, S, and WR. Guys like Bobbie Massie, Kevin Zeitler, Mohammed Sanu, Harrison Smith, Alshon Jeffrey, Reuben Randle, Amini Silatolu, Mychal Kendricks, and Shea McClellin could all be good values in the second round and any combination of three of them could be very helpful for depth this year, plus compete for a starting spot in the future.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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Time to show my true colors. I'm hoping for Jerel Worthy in the 1st, Trenton Robinson in the 4th, and Keshawn Martin in the 5th. Hey, we could use all of them. :D
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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Time to show my true colors. I'm hoping for Jerel Worthy in the 1st, Trenton Robinson in the 4th, and Keshawn Martin in the 5th. Hey, we could use all of them. :D
Not sure if serious haha.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Hey at least I'm not clamoring for Cousins. ;)
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:11 PM    (permalink
TACKLE
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Hey I'm all for Trenton and Keshawn though I'm pretty sure I'd tie a cinder block to my leg and jump into the deep end of a pool if we took Worthy in the 1st.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TACKLE View Post
Hey I'm all for Trenton and Keshawn though I'm pretty sure I'd tie a cinder block to my leg and jump into the deep end of a pool if we took Worthy in the 1st.
Don't worry; according to NFLN the Steelers will take him ahead of us as a replacement for Hampton :P
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:39 PM    (permalink
coordinator0
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Don't worry; according to NFLN the Steelers will take him ahead of us as a replacement for Hampton :P


I don't think lining Worthy up at NT in a 3-4 would be a good idea. Probably not a great fit as a 5-technique either but I can dream.
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:34 AM    (permalink
Sloopy
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I don't think lining Worthy up at NT in a 3-4 would be a good idea. Probably not a great fit as a 5-technique either but I can dream.
Yep, they went on for a minute or so about how well he anchors etc.
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:21 AM    (permalink
coordinator0
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I don't disagree that he anchors well but it would seem like a waste of his other talents to line him up there. Do you remember who was talking about Worthy playing NT? I have my suspicions...
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/201...ospect-visits/

A list of rumored players the Ravens might be bringing in for interviews (nothing confirmed by team):

Levy Adcock OT Oklahoma St: Interesting, I see him as a RT and with Jah/Oher already at the spot, I can't really see a reason for this.

Brandon Brooks OG Miami (OH): I like him. Still, I don't think he really fits the mold of the zone blocking scheme.

Ron Brooks CB LSU: Provides immediate impact on ST, don't know where he would fit in as far as our stable of corners.

Zach Brown LB North Carolina: !!!! This just re-sparks hope for me that we may select this guy. If this is true, we may be targeting a guy who in my opinion is our best option in terms of replacing Ray in this draft.

Gino Gradkowski OL Delaware: I won't lie, I have no clue about this guy.

Brandon Hardin DB Oregon State: Dude didn't play this year, east-west game was alright. Prod day was impressive but I'm thinking safety on this guy in the NFL.

Stephen Hill WR Georgia Tech: I was a bit leery of this guy after the combine and I still am somewhat leery. Probably would have to nab him in round one and considering how raw he is, I just don't know.

Buddy Jackson CB Pittsburgh: Big, fast CB. I don't know if he would ever see the depth chart at CB but provides some ST help. I honestly haven't seen anything on him coverage wise.

A.J. Jenkins WR Illinois: I like him, slot type who has the speed/agility to get open.

Cam Johnson DE Virginia: I honestly think this guy is a 4-3 DE.

Mychal Kendricks LB California: Kind of short and light. At his best running downfield and attacking the LOS. I don't know if I trust him as our ILB (could be wrong) but might be at his best play OLB in our scheme which kind of sours him for me.

Dre Kirkpatrick DB Alabama: I like it, plain and simple. Could be the future at FS for us.

Peter Konz: wouldn't want to pay the price (1st rounder) it would take to get him. I don't think he is a first rounder and I don't like his ankle issues.

Josh Robinson CB Central Florida: I don't like him in man press. A little bit tiny for it and is more of a zone defender. I'd say he could move to safety for us but I don't know about his height.

Nelson Rosario WR UCLA: Certainly presents a large red zone target but still doesn't have a lot of TD production to show for it. I don't know if I would touch him anywhere in the draft.

Phillip Thomas DB Syracuse: Don't have much on this guy.

Bobby Wagner LB Utah St: Like it, I'd take him as an ILB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coordinator0 View Post
I don't disagree that he anchors well but it would seem like a waste of his other talents to line him up there. Do you remember who was talking about Worthy playing NT? I have my suspicions...
Lol I don't remember
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:45 PM    (permalink
coordinator0
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PFT keeps an updated list of all the guys teams bring in for visits/have workouts with.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...rkout-tracker/
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:49 PM    (permalink
Sloopy
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Yea thats where the site I linked got their list from. I don't believe it is necessarily official though (not saying it's not true, just not confirmed by the team).

What are your thoughts on the list?
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Miller is visual sex on the field.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:57 PM    (permalink
coordinator0
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I would expect that list to be pretty acurate, they run the same thing every year and I've never run across a situation where they've been wrong (for this specific feature).

The only really surprising thing I see is the interest in Stephen Hill. He just doesn't fit the profile of high picks the Ravens have made in the past. All of the DBs were brought in before Webb signed his extension IIRC so I'm not sure I would put a lot of stock into that, of course they might not see Williams returning after next season either so who knows. Bringing in Zach Brown is interesting.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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I'm running the Ravens in Broth's 5 Minutes and 5 Rounds mock draft, and here is what I've come up with after 4 Rounds...

1) Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin
2) Markelle Martin, S, Oklahoma State
3) Joe Adams, WR, Arkansas
4) Audie Cole, LB, North Carolina State

Took Martin over Sanu, which was a really tough choice. I loved the depth at WR and hated it at S, and I'm a really big fan of Markelle Martin and not so high on Sanu, so I waited and drafted Joe Adams instead (I was originally targeting Marvin Jones, but he went earlier then I thought). What do you guys think? I'd be ecstatic if our first 4 rounds actually went like this.
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