2012 Ravens Draft Thread - Page 2

TACKLE · 11-08-2011, 04:24 AM

Although I certainly wouldn't be opposed to drafting Burfict, Te'o, Kuelchy or even Ronnell Lewis in the 1st round to play ILB....I must say, Jameel McClain has shown noticeable improvement and really seems have progressed this year.

Just something to consider.

coordinator0 · 11-08-2011, 09:31 AM

He's been better, but I still don't think he's anything more than average. I'd still say that ILB is the biggest need on the team after the OL.

Sloopy · 11-08-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Although I certainly wouldn't be opposed to drafting Burfict, Te'o, Kuelchy or even Ronnell Lewis in the 1st round to play ILB....I must say, Jameel McClain has shown noticeable improvement and really seems have progressed this year.

Just something to consider.

I agree that he has progressed, and certainley he has lessened the idea of "need" at ILB. However, even in the best scenario of him becoming great, Ray leaving will still leave that whole in the middle. So I certainly wouldn't see taking an ILB as a bad pick in the first.

If we can get our hands on one of the top 3 LB maybe even only the top 2, we should probably take one. If we can't we should turn our eyes elsewear.

The good news is that if indeed there is a run on LBs in the first round (history makes this seem unlikely) then it would probably leave room for a top OL or CB to fall to us.

Ravens1991 · 11-10-2011, 06:52 PM

Say we have a stud top 15 CB drop to us in the late first much like Jimmy Smith did this past year. while all the LBs and OLs would be considered average value or a reach. Would you go for a CB? Honestly I would, Williams is good but isnt lights out. But Smith and the new guy, along w/ Webb in the nickel would be lights out

Sloopy · 11-10-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravens1991

Say we have a stud top 15 CB drop to us in the late first much like Jimmy Smith did this past year. while all the LBs and OLs would be considered average value or a reach. Would you go for a CB? Honestly I would, Williams is good but isnt lights out. But Smith and the new guy, along w/ Webb in the nickel would be lights out

I have been saying this for awhile now. It's not our greatest need but we could turn what has recently been a weakness into a strength. Similar to what TB and DET has done with their defensive lines.

Having a top notch cornerback corp. with Ed Reed over the top for the near future would indeed be lights out as you stated and when it comes time for him to hang 'em up we will not lose what is essentially our entire secondary.

thegreatone · 11-10-2011, 07:09 PM

I don't know why you guys are hating on Carry Williams.

Hes only started in 8 games, and has looked pretty good. Give him time. I think he'd be an excellent #2 CB behind Smith.

Sloopy · 11-10-2011, 07:24 PM

I'm not hating, I'm saying all of this under the scenario that there isn't a viable ILB or OL available come our turn to draft.

As I said before, If there is a run on two of the positions of need one of the others will likely fall to us. The worst case scenario is that there is a run on ILB and OL leaving us with the option of probably selecting a Janoris Jenkins (just an example)

TACKLE · 11-10-2011, 07:27 PM

If we're going to with a value pick in the 1st, I'd rather it be a pass rusher than a CB.

thegreatone · 11-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia

I'm not hating, I'm saying all of this under the scenario that there isn't a viable ILB or OL available come our turn to draft.

As I said before, If there is a run on two of the positions of need one of the others will likely fall to us. The worst case scenario is that there is a run on ILB and OL leaving us with the option of probably selecting a Janoris Jenkins (just an example)

The only CB I'd take in the 1st would be the kid from LSU.

Other than that, I'd take Floyd, ILB, C, or LT. And if there aren't any good options, I'd just trade down.

thegreatone · 11-10-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

If we're going to with a value pick in the 1st, I'd rather it be a pass rusher than a CB.

I agree with this.

You could never have enough pass-rushers.

TACKLE · 11-10-2011, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegreatone

I agree with this.

You could never have enough pass-rushers.

lol but same could be said about CB's.

niel89 · 11-10-2011, 07:43 PM

If CB is BPA then I'm all for it. I continually just want to add more talent at the best value. Hopefully a player will just fall to us or we trade back and stock up some picks.

I would love to add another pass rusher but I'm sure we are gonna stick with what we have for now. We have Kindle and Kruger who have potential. Although we probably are going to let JJ walk after this season. It can never hurt to have a stock of good pass rushers though.

thegreatone · 11-10-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

lol but same could be said about CB's.

True. But we have many, don't you think?

CB:
Smith, Webb, Williams, Carr, Brown

Ravens1991 · 11-10-2011, 10:44 PM

I agree with the "never have too many pass rushers theory". But we are as close as you can get when we cant even dress a talented guy like Sergio Kindle.

Also I like williams but having a guy who can be a solid starter as your #4 CB would be a very nice luxury. I like Chykie brown too but it would be asinine to pass up a potential pro bowler because of a 5th round pick who hasnt played all season.

thegreatone · 11-10-2011, 10:50 PM

I guess its just that I don't really love anyone other Morris Claiborne in the 1st.

Sloopy · 11-11-2011, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegreatone

True. But we have many, don't you think?

CB:
Smith, Webb, Williams, Carr, Brown

With the exception of smith (potentially) most of these guys are nickle/dime types on other teams. Ed Reed really does make this secondary and if we have an option to have (possibly) a solid #1 #2 combo at corner, losing him to retirement won't hurt so bad.

Same reason we wan't to draft an ILB

As far as pass rushers: We can't even dress all the ones we have, not to mention the lack of top 3-4 Jack LB's in this class and the ones that are out there will probably be gone by the time we select.

TACKLE · 11-14-2011, 02:56 PM

On the ever changing, realistic Ravens big board that exists only in my head, TJ McDonald is now right near the top. A lot of people around SC are saying he's the best DB prospect they've had since Troy. The more I see of him, the more I read about him and the more I listen to him, the more I think he's capable of being a big time safety in this league.

I know big, hard hitting safeties are kind of taboo now, but I don't see him as a yoked up, tight hipped athlete who can only come downhill. I see a long, rangy athlete who can cover a lot ground and can play comfortably in space. Yes he can be the big, physical in the box strong safety; but he can also be that rangy deep FS, that guy who gives up nothing matched up TE's and has shown he can hold his own lined up in the slot. I like his ball skills too. He's shown the ability to go up and play the ball like a WR. Athletically, he seems like a guy who is just a very natural athlete who could thrive in any sport if he wanted.

The knocks on him would be, like all tall safeties and most tall athlete's, he's a long strider and isn't overly quick and will have to work on his change of direction. He's not a liability in the slot but he's not Earl Thomas out there either. But in our defense, I don't think he needs to be. Also, you'd like to see him get his hands on the ball a little more too (5 int's and 5 pbu's in the last two season). He's also gotten numerous flags, some valid, some not, for laying down huge (which now means illegal) hits.

All in all, he's not a finished product but I think McDonald's potential is immense. Lately, I've just kind of fallen in love with his upside and his attitude. He has the type of ability to change the stigma about big safeties. He has NFL pedigree to - his dad was 12 year pro, 6 time pro bowler Tim McDonald. From everything I've read, TJ's a team captain and the undisputed leader on that Trojans defense. For us, he can come in and compete at strong safety right away but could also work a bit at FS, eventually taking over for Reed there. Above all else, the way he plays and the way he carries himself, he just seems like a Raven.

2010 Highlights/Lowlights

Playing mostly FS

coordinator0 · 11-14-2011, 07:02 PM

Do we really need a SS though? I get that he could eventually switch over to FS when Reed retires but does McDonald help us that much in the meantime?
I can't help but feel that there will be similarily rated prospects at positions of higher need left on the board as well. I like McDonald as a prospect though. Free agency is going to be interesting to see how we deal with our other needs.

TACKLE · 11-14-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coordinator0

Do we really need a SS though? I get that he could eventually switch over to FS when Reed retires but does McDonald help us that much in the meantime?
I can't help but feel that there will be similarily rated prospects at positions of higher need left on the board as well. I like McDonald as a prospect though. Free agency is going to be interesting to see how we deal with our other needs.

At this point, do we really have any glaring needs other the center or left tackle, both of which don't look like they'll offer much value in the late 1st. Safety is every bit as big of a need as ILB for the exact same reasons. Old vet with a questionable long term future at one spot, younger player exceeding expectations but is still upgradeable at the other spot with questionable depth behind them.

....which leads me to believe with the way things are looking now, we probably should/will trade back.

coordinator0 · 11-14-2011, 07:26 PM

I actually think that ILB is a bigger need than S because I really don't want to see McClain starting. We could use a heir and a partner for Lewis at this point in my opinion. But I do agree that trading back could be a more likely option this year.

Sloopy · 11-14-2011, 09:51 PM

Depending on how it plays out (if there isn't any value really come our time to pick) I would almost rather trade back and be able to get 2-3 2nd rounders, I love Ozzie's ability to find value later in the draft and 2-3 2nd rounders for us could become 2-3 solid starters down the road, maybe pick up an ILB, S, and OL.

TACKLE · 11-14-2011, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweater-vest_mafia

Depending on how it plays out (if there isn't any value really come our time to pick) I would almost rather trade back and be able to get 2-3 2nd rounders, I love Ozzie's ability to find value later in the draft and 2-3 2nd rounders for us could become 2-3 solid starters down the road, maybe pick up an ILB, S, and OL.

Perhaps trade back into the 2nd and take Brewster? :D

Sloopy · 11-15-2011, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Perhaps trade back into the 2nd and take Brewster? :D

Awww you do care :)

Sloopy · 11-15-2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TACKLE

On the ever changing, realistic Ravens big board that exists only in my head, TJ McDonald is now ranked #2. A lot of people around SC are saying he's the best DB prospect they've had since Troy. The more I see of him, the more I read about him and the more I listen to him, the more I think he's capable of being a big time safety in this league.

I know big, hard hitting safeties are kind of taboo now, but I don't see him as a yoked up, tight hipped athlete who can only come downhill. I see a long, rangy athlete who can cover a lot ground and can play comfortably in space. Yes he can be the big, physical in the box strong safety; but he can also be that rangy deep FS, that guy who gives up nothing matched up TE's and has shown he can hold his own lined up in the slot. I like his ball skills too. He's shown the ability to go up and play the ball like a WR. Athletically, he seems like a guy who is just a very natural athlete who could thrive in any sport if he wanted.

The knocks on him would be, like all tall safeties and most tall athlete's, he's a long strider and isn't overly quick and will have to work on his change of direction. He's not a liability in the slot but he's not Earl Thomas out there either. But in our defense, I don't think he needs to be. Also, you'd like to see him get his hands on the ball a little more too (5 int's and 5 pbu's in the last two season). He's also gotten numerous flags, some valid, some not, for laying down huge (which now means illegal) hits.

All in all, he's not a finished product but I think McDonald's potential is immense. Lately, I've just kind of fallen in love with his upside and his attitude. He has the type of ability to change the stigma about big safeties. He has NFL pedigree to - his dad was 12 year pro, 6 time pro bowler Tim McDonald. From everything I've read, TJ's a team captain and the undisputed leader on that Trojans defense. For us, he can come in and compete at strong safety right away but could also work a bit at FS, eventually taking over for Reed there. Above all else, the way he plays and the way he carries himself, he just seems like a Raven.

Been meaning to get back to you on this one just didn't have the time to watch the tape...

start out simple: I like him.

If we were going to take a safety in this draft I would want it to be him.

I like that he can bring the lumber, however he can also break down in space and make the tackle. Would like to see him improve his tackling form a little bit but that can be worked on and the guys on this D would help discipline him in that respect.

Definitely athletic and makes a good break on the ball when its in the air. Dude has hands to be assured, not the stone handed guy who only breaks up passes. Seems like he gets caught out of position at times, but at other times he ends up exactly where he needs to be, could definitely prosper under Ed Reed's tutelage.

I hope he doesn't measure any taller than hsi listed 6'3" at the combine but even so it doesn't seem to affect him that much.

Could put up some nice number's at the combine and shoot up boards, might even end up being the first safety taken.

TACKLE · 11-15-2011, 04:43 PM

Just bouncing an idea of you guys.....

Let's say there's a scenario in which we're picking between 26 and 32, the value on areas of need suck and we can't trade out of that spot...

Lamar Miller?