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Old 12-04-2011, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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Burfict is the exact opposite of what we've done with defensive players lately. In short; I'm wildy intrigued by that. Doubt it happens though. It's pretty obvious we need a rangy safety though, so I agree on that front wholeheartedly. Not particularly enamored with any of the guys in this class though, besides maybe Markelle Martin. I'm pretty lukewarm on him though.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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They can go a lot of different ways.

In regards to the defense

There is no elite pass rusher available this year. Not saying there are players I dont like. In the first round there is Upshaw our of Alabama and Ingram out of South Carolina...I dont think Ingram will be high on their board despite that he is much more athletic than Upshaw he struggles against the run where Upshaw sets the edge and has improved on his pass rushing abilities. Cam Johnson is the other guy a like, has a motor like Chris Long and played OLB in a 34 with Groh last year and a 43 DE this year, scheme diverse. Andre Branch is someone to keep an eye on he really turned it up at the end of the season.

Guys like Vinny Curry, Brandon Jenkins, Ronnell Lewis, Jarvis Jones and Bruce Irvin are on the lighter side and will be just nickel rushers who will struggle against the run. Devin Taylor is not an OLB in a 34 he is a DE in a 43, he is too tall and doesnt have the feet to plat in space.

This year they really missed Wright's ability to play 34 DE and 43 DT,NT while applying pressure, there is no pocket being collapsed, QBs are able to step up. Im up in the air with a guy like Still, 1 year player who struggled against Wisconsin. Crick is a player who can play DE in a 43 and 34 along with DT but I feel he doesnt have the base to play the run. Fletcher Cox is a player to remember, he has been dominate in the SEC, can play the 5 and 3. Worthy is a undertackle only and Brandon Thompson is overrated, he is a NT in a 43 only. Poe is a darkhorse, he is a poorman's Haloti Ngata and BB likes his big boys, you cant teach size. Billy Wynn is another guy who can play 3 different positions on a winning organization.

to me Safety is the BIGGEST need, I know people dont like Barron, but I do, the guy makes the right calls, takes the right angles and always makes that play.

TJ McDonald, Robert Lester and Markelle Martin and center fielders that read the QB's eyes...McDonald has the higher ceiling and size and Martin is always around that ball and dont know why he isnt talked about more. A JR to remember is Rambo from Georgia, size and speed at FS. The name is escaping me but the FS out of Arkansas is having a solid career and could be a late round (5-7) find.

I would love to see a Sean Spence or Kenny Tate as a nickel LB
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Patriots Draft 2015
1. RB - Melvin Gordon - Wisconsin
2. WR - Antwan Goodley - Baylor
3. TE - Ben Koyak - Notre Dame
4. LB - AJ Johnson - Tennessee
5. DE - Anthony Chickillo - Miami
6. WR - Tyler Lockett - Kansas State
7. TE - Clive Walford - Miami

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Old 12-05-2011, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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There is no elite pass rusher available this year. Not saying there are players I dont like. In the first round there is Upshaw our of Alabama and Ingram out of South Carolina...I dont think Ingram will be high on their board despite that he is much more athletic than Upshaw he struggles against the run where Upshaw sets the edge and has improved on his pass rushing abilities. Cam Johnson is the other guy a like, has a motor like Chris Long and played OLB in a 34 with Groh last year and a 43 DE this year, scheme diverse. Andre Branch is someone to keep an eye on he really turned it up at the end of the season.


Guys like Vinny Curry, Brandon Jenkins, Ronnell Lewis, Jarvis Jones and Bruce Irvin are on the lighter side and will be just nickel rushers who will struggle against the run. Devin Taylor is not an OLB in a 34 he is a DE in a 43, he is too tall and doesnt have the feet to plat in space.

I'm completely down on this crop of pass rushers as it stands right now without knowing which underclassmen are coming out. I like Upshaw and Ingram, but I'm not sure I like them as first round players. Upshaw is a solid guy, but I'm not sure I would take him with a first round pick. High floor, but low ceiling. At the very least, I think he'll be a solid all around player and be a better linebacker(not necessarily as a pass rusher) than what we have right now.

Ingram is a guy who I like...but where on earth do you play him? Versatility is great, but is Ingram a truly versatile player or is he one with limitations that you can hide by moving him around? I'm not sure right now. I really want to see how he tests and preferably how he looks in space in linebacker drills. Senior Bowl and Post-Season process will be a huge factor in how I view him.

I'm really not a big fan of Cam Johnson. Yeah, he has a motor...but I just don't see elite burst(or even average) consistently enough for him to buy him as a guy who will generate either sack numbers or meaningful pressure in the NFL. Might be wrong on him, but I feel pretty comfortable in passing him up.

Branch is very underrated. One of the quickest first steps in the draft and a very athletic guy on top of that with decent size. There's some red flags there and a high "Crable" factor, but he's worth looking into. I would love to see how he does at the Senior Bowl should be receive an invitation.


As far as that next group of "light" guys go, I think like all of those players quite a bit more than Upshaw and Ingram right now. I disagree with you about them being nickel rushers; if we go back to using more 3-4 looks(which we well could), some of those guys could end up being very good linebackers.

Out of those guys, the one I like the best, far and away even, is Jarvis Jones. I went back and watched some pieces of Georgia games this weekend and came away VERY impressed with both his physical tools and his approach to the game. Burst and pass rush moves are important, but motor is king for me and he has that and then some. He's not really all that hard to neutralize if you can lock on to him...but good luck doing it. He's quick, slippery, and out to get there in a hurry. If he falls to us, I'll be pretty displeased with not taking him, as he's probably the number one pass rusher I've got right now.

I like Devin Taylor quite a bit as well. Totally disagree with him being limited to 4-3 DE. South Carolina has even moved him around quite a bit this year and even gone as far as dropping him into coverage at times. He's looked good doing it. He doesn't fit to conventional physical profile for an OLB with his height and length(let's wait to see how many inches gets shaved off. You can generally count on at least one), but there's always an exception to that kind of thing and we may be looking at one with Taylor.

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This year they really missed Wright's ability to play 34 DE and 43 DT,NT while applying pressure, there is no pocket being collapsed, QBs are able to step up. Im up in the air with a guy like Still, 1 year player who struggled against Wisconsin. Crick is a player who can play DE in a 43 and 34 along with DT but I feel he doesnt have the base to play the run. Fletcher Cox is a player to remember, he has been dominate in the SEC, can play the 5 and 3. Worthy is a undertackle only and Brandon Thompson is overrated, he is a NT in a 43 only. Poe is a darkhorse, he is a poorman's Haloti Ngata and BB likes his big boys, you cant teach size. Billy Wynn is another guy who can play 3 different positions on a winning organization.
I love Jared Crick and would be very pleased if we bought low on him. I feel bad for the guy personally with the injury damaging his stock pretty bad, but I had him pegged as a top 15-20 guy and the highest rated 3-4 DE on the board before he went down. If he's hanging around the end of the first, I might even snap him up there even if he's projected to be available in the second. Felt like he was a really underrated guy even when healthy, just a very good all around player and a better raw athlete than people give him credit for. Really projects well to being the sort of presence as the kind of interior guy or edge defender we need to make both schemes work.

Still is a guy I'm intrigued by. The fact that he was only this kind of player for one season is concerning, but boy what a season has it been. High bust factor there, but there's still a ton of upside and his skills have to rank up there with some of the better 5 technique prospects in the past few drafts. I like him a whole ton more than I did Odrick a few years back.

The rest of those guys I'm inclined to agree with you on. Thompson and Worthy really don't do a whole lot for me, but I like Worthy as a sub-rusher...just maybe not quite as high as it would take to get him. Poe and Cox are two guys who are under the radar who I want to see more of. Poe's potential is absolutely salivating as that Ngata kind of guy you've mentioned, but I want to see more of him before committing and would certainly hope that our scouts were thorough with him. His length combined with his ability to throw guys around is certainly intriguing as all hell though. If he lives up to his potential, he's the sort of guy you can see changing a defense.

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to me Safety is the BIGGEST need, I know people dont like Barron, but I do, the guy makes the right calls, takes the right angles and always makes that play.

TJ McDonald, Robert Lester and Markelle Martin and center fielders that read the QB's eyes...McDonald has the higher ceiling and size and Martin is always around that ball and dont know why he isnt talked about more. A JR to remember is Rambo from Georgia, size and speed at FS. The name is escaping me but the FS out of Arkansas is having a solid career and could be a late round (5-7) find.
I'm pretty down on that group of players. Barron is a good player who is a safe bet to be a starter, but I don't think he's the rangy sort of guy we need. Chung is a liability against the pass as is(well, all our safeties kind of are...), it doesn't seem like a great idea to bring in another one of those types of guys. Lester does a lot more for me with his range on the back end. Martin and McDonald are guys I could see fit in well too, but I'm pretty lukewarm on both of them. McDonald shows good range when you watch him, but I question if he'll be able to make up as much ground against faster players on a week to week basis.

The guy from Arkansas I think you're talking about is Tramain Thomas, and yeah, he's pretty underrated at this point. He's had a real big season this year for sure. Another guy I would love to see in some of the post-season stuff to get a better read on.
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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S, pass rusher, deep threat are the main needs. The receivers in this draft are fairly disappointing. If they could get one of the top safeties, I'd be pretty happy. Martin, Barron, McDonald...whoever...just get one. The pass rushers are somewhat "meh", but it's a deep class. I really like Curry, Whitney, and Jarvis Jones if he's eligible. I think S and pass rusher should be the first two picks.
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Old 12-08-2011, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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How are the receivers in this class "fairly disappointing"? I really like Floyd, Dwight Jones and especially Kendall Wright for us.
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Old 12-08-2011, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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What are your guys thoughts on Marvin McNutt probably a 3rd/4th round pick has had a great season. A 6'4 guy bigger than every other receiver on team seems like a good player.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm pretty lukewarm on McNutt. Doesn't look like he has the speed to get vertical in the league, and that's the kind of guy we need. I would much prefer Tommy Streeter or Brian Quick in that same range, although Streeter might be a fast riser.
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:26 AM    (permalink
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I think Streeter should of stayed and got another year under his belt could of risen his stock more.
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Old 12-10-2011, 08:02 AM    (permalink
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I've been trying to put my thoughts together regarding the draft. Here's some of it:

Needs

1. Outside linebacker
Surprise, surprise. It looks like we're going back to the 3-4 next year, meaning we are back to having no pass rush what so ever since Carter and Anderson don't fit in the 3-4. Right now we only have Rob Ninkovich, who's probably better suited as a depth player/ special teamer and Jermaine Cunningham, who has been atrocious and invisible this year after a rookie season where he flashed some ability. In my opinion we need two starting OLBs: one via FA and one via the draft. A dark horse might be Markell Carter, who Reiss is speculating might be promoted from the practice squad.

2. Safety
Besides Chung there are no starting caliber safeties on the roster right now. Chung is, despite being awesome, a liability in coverage and would be better suited playing strong safety. His playing still combined with his slight frame makes for a player prone to injury though, which means that we need at least two new safeties.

3. Defensive end
Although there are quite a few players on the roster who can play the 5-tech position there are none who in my opinion can be a difference maker. Deaderick has shown some ability, but questions linger about his personality. He looks better suited as a backup and a spot starter, not as a full time starter. Ron Brace is a bust, Gerard Warren is old and Mike Wright is probably done due to concussions. That leaves us with a total of zero starting caliber defensive ends. Ugh...

4. Center
Dan Koppen is a FA come march and is a long shot to get a new contract. Dan Connolly was decent, but got pushed around some. Ryan Wendell is a nice backup, but by no means a starting caliber center in the AFC given the number of 3-4 teams here. In a class with potentially a couple of very good centers the Patriots should strike while the iron is hot and go get a center that can prevent pass rush up the middle a.k.a. Brady Cryptonite.

5. Wide receiver
Deion Branch is old, so is Ochostinko. Tiquan Underwood is, despite having the coolest hair in the NFL, not a NFL receiver. On top of that: Wes Welker is a FA come march, but should get the franchise tag if no deal is reached. This could mean that receiver should be higher on my list, but with Brady at QB we can get by with less talented players at WR than most other teams.

Potential targets

Andre Branch, DE/OLB, Clemson
Generally I'm not one to fall in love with Clemson D-linemen, since they always appear to be great athletes who can't translate that ability to the field. But I feel differently about Branch. He's a good athlete who has a non-stop engine. He has some experience dropping into coverages where he displays patience and the ability to read the QB. He's a solid tackler and has the length and strength to set the edge. Overall, I think Branch is a better version of Jermaine Cunningham. He should test well at the Combine too and doesn't appear to have any character issues.

Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
I like to compare Wright to DeSean Jackson, which means that he can give the NE offense a dimension it hasn't had since Moss was traded. But Wright is also able to be a factor in the short and intermediate passing game and looks like an ideal player to take over from Branch. He's only about 5'10" 190 lbs, but has the ability to play outside the numbers given his speed, suddenness and route running ability. He might have some trouble with being jammed at the LOS in the NFL, but for me the positives outweighs the negatives by a wide margin.

Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin
Konz might return to school, but if he declares he should be a priority target for the Patriots if he's within reach. He has great size and strength to hold up against nose tackles, but he also has the athleticism to pull and get to the second level. Wisconsin O-linemen are typically well coached and NFL ready, meaning that Konz should be a day one starter. Plug and play and be set at center for another decade.

Dontari Poe, DT/DE, Memphis
He might be out of our reach come april, but if we get a chance to get him we should do just that. Two years ago I had a huge man crush on Linval Joseph, whom we passed on multiple times. Now he's a stud in the making. I feel like Poe is a combination between Joseph and Ngata who has the size, strength and athleticism to play 3-4 DE at a very high level.

Devon Still, DT/DE, Penn State
Whilst he doesn't have the brute strength of Poe, he has adequate strength and athleticism to play DE in BBs system. I have some concerns about him since he's only just turned it on this year, but if this year is a good indicator of his future level of play he could be a good DE in NE. He has the size that BB looks for. The only thing I question is his ability to play gap control, but I feel like he could do that with some coaching.

Michael Floyd, wide receiver, Notre Dame
Floyd looks like a true #1 receiver in the NFL in the Andre Johnson mold. He's big, strong and has enough speed to get on top of DBs. He has a history of DUI's and generally dumb behavior which could hurt his draft stock enough to the point where we might have a shot at him. If we do, it should be a no brainer.

Tommy Streeter, wide receiver, Miami (FL)
Streeter compares favorably to Sidney Rice, or at least, the Vikings anno 2009 version of Sidney Rice. He has deceptive speed and solid route running ability to go along with good hands. He should've stayed in school imo, but here's a chance to get a steal in the third or fourth round.

Vontaze Burfict, ILB, Arizona State
Even though ILB isn't on the list of top need and seems to be the one position besides NT where we're set we should definitely jump on an opportunity to draft Taze if we get it. Taze is a top ten talent, but questions about his demeanor on the field and his work ethic have caused his stock to drop. If he drops I don't care who we have, we should replace Spikes with Taze. He has the ability to be a similar player to Ray Lewis (hopefully without murdering people though) and we could need some more intensity on defense. He's also a good fit next to Mayo.

Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC
Rumors say that Nick Perry is leaning towards declaring for the draft, which is great news for us. Perry's stock is lukewarm right now, but he should test well and has shown the ability to outright beat LTs and either get the sack or force incompletions. He has adequate size and I feel like he can be a player similar to Brian Orakpo if he puts it all together.

I think that's about it for now. More players might be added at some point.
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Old 12-10-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I think Streeter should of stayed and got another year under his belt could of risen his stock more.
I still think Tommy Streeter should have gone to BC >8L.

He's still super raw, but is a tall, lanky WR in the mold of Chris Henry. I'd take him, but I'm not sure about his draft value. His size, speed, athleticism, and production point to an easy first round pick. **** loads better than garbage ass Sanu, who people keep mocking to the Pats (ewww). Streeter may well be the best WR in the draft.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Quick question; if there's a run on wrs early or BB doesn't see the fit, how would people feel about drafting someone like Coby Fleener or Dwayne Allen? Hernandez has shown he's actually better split out and could take up the 3rd wr spot and you could still come out in 2 or 3 TE sets
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Quick question; if there's a run on wrs early or BB doesn't see the fit, how would people feel about drafting someone like Coby Fleener or Dwayne Allen? Hernandez has shown he's actually better split out and could take up the 3rd wr spot and you could still come out in 2 or 3 TE sets
Doesn't work. Hernandez is an underneath receiver. Moving him around won't do anything to change that and drafting another tight end with the idea of making them a primary target in the offense doesn't help us overcome our limitations. I like Fleener a lot...but not for us.
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Old 12-14-2011, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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Watching pieces of some Miami games from this year to try to get a bit better of a read on Streeter. I'm liking what I see. He's a lanky type of guy and that's a it of a concern, but at 6'4 and good long speed, he's tough to match up with. He makes a lot of plays down, which is something we need badly on the outside. Doesn't seem to track the ball as well as he should...but even though Jacory is a willing down field thrower he isn't a very skilled one. I would love to have seen him stay another year or play in a post-season game, but neither of those will be happening. Not sure where I would slot the guy yet though. First round type ability, but he's got 5th round production and track record. The combine will be huge for him.

Edit:

Some more thoughts on Streeter

Positives
-Good long speed, very good height/athleticism ratio
-Able to generate separation down the field
-Uses his body well, both length wise and shielding the all from defenders
-Doesn't need great separation to make catches down down the field, is able to focus and adjust to the ball even with a guy close. Thrives in jump ball situations.
-Lines up in multiple places quite a bit, not afraid to work the middle seemingly
-Quicker feet than you would expect for a tall guy, Miami uses a lot of double moves and he's able to use them to get away from defenders down the field

Negatives
-Very raw overall. Still maturing physically and technically.
-Doesn't seem to have "strong" hands. You would like to see him attack the ball when it's in the air better
-One year of productivity and only one real year of playing time
-Isn't pressed real often, but he's obviously more comfortable with a clean initial release
-Build up speed. Doesn't accelerate quickly and sudden probably won't be an adjective you use to describe him.


Miami uses him in the slot a lot because of the mismatches he's able to generate there. Versatility is great, but we need a receiver with an outside game. He's not a slouch there and a lot of his vertical gains come when he's on the outside, but it's still something I would be leery about. He's got very good physical tools at 6'4 215 with supposed sub 4.4 speed(looks like a high 4.4 guy to me), but he takes awhile to get going. I actually think he's a pretty good fit in a lot of ways. We can afford to be patient with a limited roleplayer type as they develop into something more...and if there's one thing Streeter has going for him, it's upside.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:51 AM    (permalink
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The guy is Chris Henry Lite. In this offense...I'll take that 8 days a week.
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to be doing a bit of work on wide receivers since the Streeter thing got me in the mood to watch tape. Went over some Iowa games with a focus on McNutt this afternoon. McNutt is more of a known commodity than Streeter is with 3 years of solid tape on him, but consolidating some of it is useful.

Positives
-Great size at 6'3 215, tall and well built.
-Outstanding hands with a great catch radius that enables him to make some highlight real type catches.
-Good focus, able to track balls and make catches with guys draped all over him. Very good at tracking the football, not a guy you have to throw directly at.
-Excellent body control. Make catches without a whole ton of space along the sideline with regularity. Uses his size to his advantage and is able to box out defenders and box out the ball.
-Able to fight through jams at the line of scrimmage, natural and adept hand fighter.
-Hard guy to keep track of in zone coverage, seems to have a good understanding of how to find a hole and settle in.
-Hard to contain in the short game due to the jumps he gets off the line and his reach.
-Doesn't have the quickest feet in the world, but still runs nice routes. Makes nice adjustments too, working his way back to the quarterback when the play extends.
-Hard worker with good intangibles. High character guy.

Negatives
-Simply isn't an NFL caliber athlete in terms of speed and agility.
-Doesn't generate a ton of separation naturally, has to rely on technique and adjustments to get space.
-Won't be able to run away from NFL defenders after the catch the same way he can in the the Big Ten.
-Doesn't get to his top gear.
-Not fast in and out of his cuts. Runs good routes, but they're more round than they are crisp.
-Despite the relative lack of experience at the position, his upside in limited.

In the end, there's a lot to like about McNutt. He's seen year to year improvement and had big catches in big moments to top it off. It's just a question of how his lack of wide receiver athleticism translates, as he relies on the little things and his size to make things happen even at the college level. Mixed track record with similar kinds of players.

Light 3rd round, solid 4th round grade

As far as how his skills apply to us; it could fit. BB has a relationship with Kirk Ferentz...and while he never really drafts to those the way some other guys do(except with Urban Meyer), it's still always worth mentioning. He's a high character, hard working guy who would fits the mold of the Patriot way. On the field, he doesn't quite bring the explosive element we're looking for. He's capable of making plays down the field in the NFL, but not by running by guys. For some of these plays where Branch and Welker are well contained short and Brady is sitting back there for a long time, McNutt could find a hole and do some damage. With how old we're getting at the position, I would prefer that we find someone with a bit more upside and the ability eventually replace Branch and Welker, but McNutt would be the safest receiver we've drafted in a long time(and as I've said, he's not a sure thing haha) if we were to draft him. I'm just not sure he is brings that vertical dimension to our offense that we should be looking for.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:39 AM    (permalink
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Nice write up. I really like McNutt for us. He doesn't give the breakaway big play ability of someone like Kendall Wright etc but he offers size an the ability to exploit single coverage.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Looking at more receivers. If these get annoying, I'll stop posting them. You guys aren't stupid, you know about a lot of these guys. Rueben Randle this time around.

Positives
-Good size at 6'3 and close to 210, well built.
-Overall athleticism is very suited to being a capable NFL receiver, with a nice balance of acceleration and speed to compliment his size
-Generates easy vertical separation, hitting his top gear down the field. Able to make catches 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage consistently.
-Tracks the ball very well in the air, high pointing it when he needs to.
-A bit of a long strider, but he's quick and sudden in and out of his breaks and moves surprisingly well for a big guy.
-Good open field guy. Looks to make yards after the catch and can be tough to tackle in the open field, demonstrating good elusiveness.
-Tons of experience against top level competition, managing to be productive in spite of some truly horrific quarterback play.


Negatives
-Doesn't always play up to his size. You would like to see him be more physical overall.
-Must continue to get stronger.
-Despite above average acceleration and quickness for his size, he's still more in the deep speed/long strider category.
-Played in a very vanilla, conservative offensive scheme that didn't ask him to run an NFL route tree. Has the ability to be a good route runner, but hasn't been asked to do it.
-Doesn't make a lot of contested catches and doesn't seem to use his body all that well.
-Seemingly bothered by press coverage.
-Disappears for large stretches. Some of that has to do with quarterback play, but if you watch him closely you can see it's a bit of an effort problem as well. Runs some lazy routes at times.
-Doesn't seem to possess strong hands. Makes easy catches look easy, harder catches look hard.

Very well rounded overall athlete with the tools to beat you in a lot of different ways. It's sort of tough to evaluate Randle due to the type of quarterback play he has to deal with and offensive system he's in. Out of all the top ranked receivers, sans maybe Toon, he's been asked to do the least in spite of being pretty productive. It's tough to call him raw, since he doesn't really seem to make many mistakes or have a whole ton of technical limitations, but he's certainly still a developing player. The biggest question for me is if he'll continue to be soft and disappear....but all his flaws are coachable. Might not come out this year, but he's a viable candidate to be picked in the late first to early second if he does, possibly even higher with a good combine. Defiantly one of the more under appreciated draft eligible receivers with one of the higher ceilings for his position in the class.

As far as how he would be as a Patriot; it's a pretty good fit. He's not a number one target the second he walks through the door type, but he doesn't have to be here. He's got the ability to go vertical, but he also has some run after the catch skills as well, which is something we covet. The prospect of us taking another receiver who need some work is a little scary though, but with a good bit of coaching(or shall we say luck?) he could well end up being a number one type target for us if we were to take him.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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These aren't annoying, I find them quite informative actually. Of course I don't agree with everything you say, but that would be boring. :) Will you be doing a write up on Juron Criner? I was really high on him going into the season, but his play regressed some this season. I'm still curious about about him though as I think he could develop into a good deep threat in the NFL.
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Old 12-16-2011, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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keep em coming EE! good stuff man
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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As far as how he would be as a Patriot; it's a pretty good fit.
Struggling against the press and lacking instincts that come with running the full route tree is a nightmare situation waiting to blow up in our faces.

That's the two things that you need to be able to do in NE. That and catch. Otherwise, you are a bigger Julian Edelman.
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:28 AM    (permalink
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Struggling against the press and lacking instincts that come with running the full route tree is a nightmare situation waiting to blow up in our faces.

That's the two things that you need to be able to do in NE. That and catch. Otherwise, you are a bigger Julian Edelman.
I was talking from a skills to need perspective as opposed to a true "this is the kind of receiver the Patriots like" kind of one. There's a high "it won't work out" factor with Randle and us, but I would like to think that we will be able to develop players one of these days....or dare I say it; fit the system around them as opposed to forcing them into the system.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Randle really intrigues me. He has all the tools to be a top WR but as you mentioned that doesn't always show up at gametime. I do put a lot of that down to the offense he played in because he has had a poor QB situation his whole career at LSU. I would have liked to see more from him though. Kinda guy you would take a flier on at the bottom of the third but I wouldn't expect him to be amazing in the NFL. I definitely wouldn't touch him in the first 2 though. Still should be a better pro than college player though if he goes somewhere with a good QB
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I don't think there's any way he goes anywhere outside of the second round if he were to declare....and he has a real good chance of being a first round pick. People don't realize how much talent the guy has. He's not Julio Jones or AJ Green, but he's a lot closer than people realize.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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I don't think there's any way he goes anywhere outside of the second round if he were to declare....and he has a real good chance of being a first round pick. People don't realize how much talent the guy has. He's not Julio Jones or AJ Green, but he's a lot closer than people realize.
I agree that it is likely he could go in the second(I think the first is a stretch) but I don't personally think he should go that high. When talking WRs going in the first few rounds I either want someone who dominated college DBs and has shown consistent production or some kind of freak athlete with huge upside.

Don't get me wrong I think he will probably measure in at around 6'2 210 and run in the 4.4s but I worry why he didn't do more and they aren't exactly Randy Moss numbers. There are a lot of people who don't play with great QBs or offenses that suit them and they still dominate.

It may be a case of because we have been burned a few times with high upside guys who didn't produce in college like they should have but I would take someone like McNutt who you've also looked at over Randle. Not as much upside but a way higher ceiling than Randle.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Randle is a pretty safe bet to measure in at 6'3(listed at 6'4 right now, LSU has traditionally only been an inch or so off) and run in the 4.4's. It's not about straight line speed/height with him though, it's the quickness in and out of his breaks and overall athleticism that makes him a first round candidate. No, those aren't Randy Moss numbers, but those are the type of numbers that get you picked in the first round if you have a solid track record of production against good competition, which Randle has. Measures up very well in terms of production to testing numbers against some guys who have been picked in that range in the past few years.

McNutt is a decent prospect, but guys like him either tend to disappear quickly. You have to be a gifted athlete to cut it at receiver in this league. There are exceptions, but there's a long list of guys who weren't exceptions as well. So in that regard, I wouldn't call McNutt super safe. There's a good chance he bounces around the league a lot.
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