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Old 12-15-2011, 08:54 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
It's not as big of a risk for a team in the 24-32 range as was suggested. Those are obviously playoff teams with fewer holes than most teams, thus aren't as destroyed when their top pick doesn't pan out.
Teams in the 24-32 range, got there by drafting winners and rarely take on projects with real character issues. They leave these types for the weaker drafting teams which allows them a shot at a better prospect.
Injuries are a risk teams in the 24-32 range will take, hoping for a real payoff because otherwise they never get a shot at the best prospects.
IMO, Jeffery's will go early round 2, to one of those poorly run organizations, to the glee of those drafting further down the food chain.
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Old 12-16-2011, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Looked at Rueben Randle's games this year today. Did a bit of a write up. Let me know if these get annoying.

Quote:
Positives
-Good size at 6'3 and close to 210, well built.
-Overall athleticism is very suited to being a capable NFL receiver, with a nice balance of acceleration and speed to compliment his size
-Generates vertical separation, hitting his top gear down the field. Able to make catches 20+ yards past the line of scrimmage consistently.
-Tracks the ball very well in the air, high pointing it when he needs to.
-A bit of a long strider, but he's quick and sudden in and out of his breaks and moves surprisingly well for a big guy.
-Good open field guy. Looks to make yards after the catch and can be tough to tackle in the open field, demonstrating good elusiveness.
-A weapon in the quick pass game, gets up field quickly after making catches.
-Tons of experience against top level competition, managing to be productive in spite of some truly horrific quarterback play.


Negatives
-Doesn't always play up to his size. You would like to see him be more physical overall.
-Seemingly bothered by press coverage.
-Must continue to get stronger in order to beat press coverage.
-Despite above average acceleration and quickness for his size, he's still more in the deep speed/long strider category.
-Played in a very vanilla, conservative offensive scheme that didn't ask him to run an NFL route tree. Has the ability to be a good route runner, but hasn't been asked to do it.
-Doesn't make a lot of contested catches and doesn't seem to use his body all that well.
-Disappears for large stretches. Some of that has to do with quarterback play, but if you watch him closely you can see it's a bit of an effort problem as well. Runs some lazy routes at times.
-Doesn't seem to possess strong hands. Makes easy catches look easy, harder catches look hard.

Very well rounded overall athlete with the tools to beat you in a lot of different ways. It's sort of tough to evaluate Randle due to the type of quarterback play he has to deal with and offensive system he's in. Out of all the top ranked receivers, sans maybe Toon, he's been asked to do the least in spite of being pretty productive. It's tough to call him raw, since he doesn't really seem to make many mistakes or have a whole ton of technical limitations, but he's certainly still a developing player. The biggest question for me is if he'll continue to be soft and disappear....but all his flaws are coachable. Might not come out this year, but he's a viable candidate to be picked in the late first to early second if he does, possibly even higher with a good combine. Defiantly one of the more under appreciated draft eligible receivers with one of the higher ceilings for his position in the class.
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RWills View Post
Top guys
1(13). Justin Criner - I just don't see the ability to seperate from defenders at the next level, reminds me of James Hardy
Have you ever watched Juron Criner? James Hardy had bricks for feet. Criner has very good speed. Please at least watch a highlight reel on youtube before you make a writeup like this
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jimmylishis View Post
Have you ever watched Juron Criner? James Hardy had bricks for feet. Criner has very good speed. Please at least watch a highlight reel on youtube before you make a writeup like this
Hardy ran a 4.45 at the combine. I'm assuming "bricks for feet" means he's slow, but I don't see anyway that 4.45 is slow or that Criner will be any faster. It's not a bad comparison, don't get caught up in the fact that Hardy hasn't panned out.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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Out of any position in this draft class, I most definitely think the WRs will have the see-saw effect from 3-5 range, it will be a toss up.
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Newton
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Barely literate +5 swagger
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Kicked off of a team of thugs +20 swagger
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Total Swagger: 62
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:13 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts on Rishard Mathews?
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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1. Justin Blackmon - OSU

2. Kendall Wright - Baylor

3. Michael Floyd - Notre Dame

4. Alshon Jeffery - South Carolina - If he gets into shape this guys reminds me Mike Williams which is not good.

5. Tommy Streeter - Miami - Physical Freak will test through the roof but only had 1 good statistical season.

6. Nick Toon - Wisconsin

7. Jeff Fuller - Texas A&M

8. Ryan Broyles - OU

9. Joe Adams - Arkansas

10. Travis Benjamin - Miami - Game Changer
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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I like Jeffery because of the hands and reach. You can't put too much emphasis on those two things as far as WR are concerned. He seems pretty upbeat as well, I think he would be a great teammate. I like Streeter and Randle because of their upside. Great athletes who are comparitively young. I think Randle will still be 20 on draft day. To me it's a very deep class at the position, probably ten deep in players with second round value.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Any list that doesn't have Mohammed Sanu as a top-5 WR in this class is bogus.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:20 PM    (permalink
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Any list that doesn't have Mohammed Sanu as a top-5 WR in this class is bogus.
Meh. I like Sanu, but when you actually stack him up against the competition, he doesn't quite stack up.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Any list that doesn't have Mohammed Sanu as a top-5 WR in this class is bogus.
I thought Sanu was staying in school.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, he's actually pretty eerily similar in terms of ability. I think he's more of a roleplayer early in his career, but he could well develop into a a #1 or #2 target if he continues to get better.
Couldn't agree more. Good report on him too, nailed it.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Meh. I like Sanu, but when you actually stack him up against the competition, he doesn't quite stack up.
He is what Jeff Fuller was supposed to be. Fuller fell flat this year and Sanu had a huge year.

1-Blackmon
2-Floyd
3-Wright
4-Sanu
5-????

I think Sanu is clearly a top 5 guy. I don't know who is 5th behind those 4, it's very debatable. I know Jeffery is dropping like a rock and the other guys have questionable upside compared to the others. Personally I would put either Jeffery, Posey, or Nick Toon 5th.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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I like Jeffery because of the hands and reach. You can't put too much emphasis on those two things as far as WR are concerned. He seems pretty upbeat as well, I think he would be a great teammate. I like Streeter and Randle because of their upside. Great athletes who are comparitively young. I think Randle will still be 20 on draft day. To me it's a very deep class at the position, probably ten deep in players with second round value.
strangely enough Alshon reminds me more of Antonio Gates than any WR on his body control and how he runs and can go up and get the ball. Maybe a little bit like Keyshawn Johnson or Mike Williams (the fat lazy one). Definitely worth a flyer in round 2, but his round one value is long gone if you ask me.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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strangely enough Alshon reminds me more of Antonio Gates than any WR on his body control and how he runs and can go up and get the ball. Maybe a little bit like Keyshawn Johnson or Mike Williams (the fat lazy one). Definitely worth a flyer in round 2, but his round one value is long gone if you ask me.
Yeah, Jeffery is probably about 20 pounds short of being Antonio Gates. Maybe not that much at this point.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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Ranking WR's can feel like a crapshoot sometimes because their production is so dependent on their situation, more so than any other position imo. Obviously I'll still make an attempt to rank them, but I think I'm more comfortable just tiering them this year. Here's some rough 'rankings' for you guys. The players are very loosely ordered within the tiers

Tier 1 - 1st round talents
Justin Blackmon
Alshon Jeffery
Michael Floyd
Kendall Wright
Rueben Randle

I think all of these guys are legitimate first round talents. Any one of them could end up being the best WR to come out of this class.

Tier 2 - Early/Mid 2nd round talents
BJ Cunningham
Dwight Jones
Joe Adams
TY Hilton
Mohammed Sanu

Cunningham, Jones and Sanu can be solid #2's with enough ability to develop into #1's. Hilton and Adams can be big time playmakers as a #2 or slot receivers.

Tier 3 - Mid 2nd-Early 4th, really depends on what type on system/style prefernce
Juron Criner
Marvin McNutt
DeVier Posey
Tommy Streeter
Brian Quick
Ryan Broyles
Nick Toon
Jarius Wright
Keshawn Martin

Pretty distinct types of recievers who all could be solid #2 or #3's for a lot of teams though I don't know if any of these guys have #1 ability. Big bodied possession guys, (Criner, McNutt, Quick, Streeter) smaller explosive threats (Broyles, Martin, Wright) and the guys in the middle who do everything well but nothing great (Posey, Jenkins, Toon).



....damn this WR class is deep.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Is that your order TACKLE? Curious as to Alshon>Floyd.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Ranking WR's can feel like a crapshoot sometimes because their production is so dependent on their situation, more so than any other position imo.
Yessir, this is 100% correct.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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Is that your order TACKLE? Curious as to Alshon>Floyd.
No it's not. My inability to separate the top 5 is what lead me to do the tiers in the first place. With that being said, I do think Alshon is being underrated at the moment and is probably the most 'gifted' WR in this class.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Good stuff. I'm doing a little bit of work on Sanu and Jones tomorrow as soon as I find enough games. I'm anxious to get a look at Posey as well, he's really flashed big in the times I've seen him play the past few years.

This class doesn't quite have the super star talents that the last one did with AJ Green and Julio Jones, but there's a ton of depth and guys who could be really nice players.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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The Rutgers offensive system severely hurt Sanu's YPC which is the biggest knock on him right now. We rarely sent him deep in a game.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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for me right now it goes

1. Justin Blackmon : OKLAHOMA STATE*
2. Dwight Jones : NORTH CAROLINA
3. Michael Floyd : NOTRE DAME
4. TY Hilton : FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL
5. Alshon Jeffery : SOUTH CAROLINA*
6. Kendall Wright : BAYLOR

I don't have Sanu ranked bc not sure if he's gonna be in the draft or not and after the top 6 there is so much to sort through because there's so many quality prospects at the position
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:04 PM    (permalink
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The Rutgers offensive system severely hurt Sanu's YPC which is the biggest knock on him right now. We rarely sent him deep in a game.
Nobody that has seen Sanu in his 3 years at Rutgers should be concerned with his YAC. He's a RB with WR ability. The system did negate some of his ability after the catch, but anyone that saw him returning punts and as a wildcat QB and RB the previous 2 years knows he's a beast to tackle.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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The Rutgers offensive system severely hurt Sanu's YPC which is the biggest knock on him right now. We rarely sent him deep in a game.
If you can't see any downfield game, it's hard to project it. Sanu looks more like an underneath kind of receiver right now, which either helps or hurts his value depending on the system you're running and what you're looking for in a receiver. I like his build, athletic ability, and versatility...but he's more of an athlete playing wide receiver right now than an athletic wide receiver. I think he's actually a pretty safe pick given that he'll be able to do what he does now in the NFL fairly effectively, but I'm not sure I would spend a first or second round pick on that sort of guy. Word is that he's coming back right now anyway, which could be very good for both his stock and development.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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If you can't see any downfield game, it's hard to project it. Sanu looks more like an underneath kind of receiver right now, which either helps or hurts his value depending on the system you're running and what you're looking for in a receiver. I like his build, athletic ability, and versatility...but he's more of an athlete playing wide receiver right now than an athletic wide receiver. I think he's actually a pretty safe pick given that he'll be able to do what he does now in the NFL fairly effectively, but I'm not sure I would spend a first or second round pick on that sort of guy. Word is that he's coming back right now anyway, which could be very good for both his stock and development.
His freshman year we used him more as a deep threat and then this year we almost never had him run a route more than 10-15 yards. He has great hands and like you said is still learning the position but his upside is that of a 1st round pick. He'll be able to play in any offensive system in the NFL. He's going to test much faster at the Combine than everyone believes also. Yes rumor is right now he's leaning towards staying but he is older than your average JR so I'm not convinced just yet. Teams are going to fall in love with him in interviews as well.
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