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Old 12-03-2011, 11:20 PM    (permalink
Abaddon
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Never fails. Wanna see a gaggle of slobbering imbeciles? Start a Teblow thread. Hysterical.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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So he's a good running back....geez...who knew?
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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So he's a good running back....geez...who knew?
Yeah, his "historical"(hysterical) accomplishments don't exactly help his case as a qb.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Well if anyone was saying he's a good QB it would be a different story but since the reading comprehension on this site is like pre-K that's all you tards keep bringing up...
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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So what the **** are you saying? The position he plays is QB so if he sucks at QB then really what are you saying? If you were talking about a position change it may make sense but your not...
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Okay. I promised I would not say anything else, but I had to just throw this out there. Offensive efficiency statistics with Tebow at the helm.

Third Down Conversion
1. In the 6 games with Tebow as the full-time starter, the offense has managed no more than 5 third down conversions in a game.

2. In the 6 games with Tebow as the full-time starter, the best single-game third down conversion rate was 35.7% (KC).

3. In the 6 games with Tebow as the full-time starter, the Broncs have had 4 games with a third down conversion rate of 25% or lower.

4. Over those 6 games, the aggregate conversion rate of third down chances is 25.88%. Over the season, the worst team for third down conversion rate is St. Louis with a rate of 28.7%.

5. The Broncos have faced a total of 85 third down plays with Tim Tebow as the starting quarterback. The Tebow-led Broncos have converted a total of 22 of these chances

First Downs
1. So far in the NFL season, the average first downs per game is 19.5.

2. So far in the NFL season, the median first downs per game in 18.8

3. In the 6 games with Tebow as the full-time starter, the Broncos have had more than the average number of 1st downs (20 first downs against Oakland).

4. In the 6 games with Tebow as the full-time starter, the Broncos have had more than the median number of 1st downs (Oak and 19 against Detroit).

5. Over those 6 games, the Broncos are averaging 17 first downs per game. Over the course of the season, this statistic would place them soundly between Jacksonville (#31) and St. Louis (#30) in the league for first downs per game.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Despite the fact that as a passer Tebow is significantly below average, I think everyone discounts the positive impact he has on the entire team. He doesn't elevate his team with magic, he does it with enthusiasm and passion. Those traits play more of a role than some people might think in all walks of life, not just football. That mentality is contagious and while that isn't enough to be a successful quarterback in the NFL, it is enough until he becomes what he needs to as a passer, and those traits can't be taught. Weather or not he ever becomes a genuinely successful quarterback, what he does bring to the table is of high value and does actually elevate his team on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ngatachance92 View Post
So what the **** are you saying? The position he plays is QB so if he sucks at QB then really what are you saying? If you were talking about a position change it may make sense but your not...
I think that what we're saying has been going on for almost 20 pages now and the fact that you can't comprehend what people are saying in that 20 pages doesn't worry you?
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Despite the fact that as a passer Tebow is significantly below average, I think everyone discounts the positive impact he has on the entire team. He doesn't elevate his team with magic, he does it with enthusiasm and passion. Those traits play more of a role than some people might think in all walks of life, not just football. That mentality is contagious and while that isn't enough to be a successful quarterback in the NFL, it is enough until he becomes what he needs to as a passer, and those traits can't be taught. Weather or not he ever becomes a genuinely successful quarterback, what he does bring to the table is of high value and does actually elevate his team on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
Great. Make him the Broncos' rally monkey. Then go get yourselves a real QB who provides some value ON THE FIELD.
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:58 PM    (permalink
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Despite the fact that as a passer Tebow is significantly below average, I think everyone discounts the positive impact he has on the entire team. He doesn't elevate his team with magic, he does it with enthusiasm and passion. Those traits play more of a role than some people might think in all walks of life, not just football. That mentality is contagious and while that isn't enough to be a successful quarterback in the NFL, it is enough until he becomes what he needs to as a passer, and those traits can't be taught. Weather or not he ever becomes a genuinely successful quarterback, what he does bring to the table is of high value and does actually elevate his team on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball.
I won't knock Tebow's attitude ever. He does LOVE the sport it seems and he LOVES to compete. I will always give him high marks for that.

However, enthusiasm only goes so far. I run XC/Track in college and no matter how amped I am for a race, I won't break 4:00 in the mile. I can hype my team up but we won't beat the top teams in the Region.

The lone good thing about Tebow, sans running ability and "leadership", is the fact he's not turning the ball over. But this offense is predicated on the "3 and out". You can't win this way though for long periods of time. The Broncos schedule has also been very light since Tebow took control.

Tebow did lead that comeback last year against HOU and almost did it this year against SD but never against a great team. If Denver is ever down by 2 possessions, the game is nearly over because they can't rely on passing. Tebow can hit Decker every now and then but......


ah **** it, this argument has gone in circles more than the Daytona 500.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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I think that what we're saying has been going on for almost 20 pages now and the fact that you can't comprehend what people are saying in that 20 pages doesn't worry you?
I've read it, but I'm having trouble gleaning anything from what you've said other then you have a raging Orange boner for Tebow and can't see past the fact that despite who he's beaten so far, his "magic" can only take them so far. Playoff teams are going to eat him up if he makes it there.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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I won't knock Tebow's attitude ever. He does LOVE the sport it seems and he LOVES to compete. I will always give him high marks for that.

However, enthusiasm only goes so far. I run XC/Track in college and no matter how amped I am for a race, I won't break 4:00 in the mile. I can hype my team up but we won't beat the top teams in the Region.

The lone good thing about Tebow, sans running ability and "leadership", is the fact he's not turning the ball over. But this offense is predicated on the "3 and out". You can't win this way though for long periods of time. The Broncos schedule has also been very light since Tebow took control.

Tebow did lead that comeback last year against HOU and almost did it this year against SD but never against a great team. If Denver is ever down by 2 possessions, the game is nearly over because they can't rely on passing. Tebow can hit Decker every now and then but......


ah **** it, this argument has gone in circles more than the Daytona 500.
I don't disagree that it only takes you so far, but for a team with nothing going for them offensively, for now it is enough. If he can develop as a passer with a full offseason with the team and shows signs of improvement than why not believe that with his work ethic he can become a legit QB? He has every intangible, unteachable asset you could want in a QB. Combine that with his genuine desire and there's no reason to doubt he can become at least an average passer.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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Track is not even in the same universe as football when it comes to the principles we're talking about.

And Tebow has led a comeback versus the Jet's and Chargers, two teams they are inferior too on paper.

I agree that not turning the ball over is helping but I disagree about low scoring, good defensive/ball control/rushing teams with subpar QB play, 3 and out team not being able to win. That same model was used for years by Bill Cowher in Pittsburgh when he had Kordell Stewart and it's been used by other teams to get to the post season, like the Jason Campbell and Mark Brunell led Redskins playoff teams when Portis had to be relied on extensively to get into the playoffs...

Sure, it's always nice to have a great QB, but there's other ways of winning in the NFL and Tebow is doing that... The fact that he's not a prototypical QB is the problem people have with him, even though it shouldn't really matter how you win, but the fact that you indeed win should be looked at with a little more credit than what he's getting.

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Originally Posted by Philliez01 View Post
I won't knock Tebow's attitude ever. He does LOVE the sport it seems and he LOVES to compete. I will always give him high marks for that.

However, enthusiasm only goes so far. I run XC/Track in college and no matter how amped I am for a race, I won't break 4:00 in the mile. I can hype my team up but we won't beat the top teams in the Region.

The lone good thing about Tebow, sans running ability and "leadership", is the fact he's not turning the ball over. But this offense is predicated on the "3 and out". You can't win this way though for long periods of time. The Broncos schedule has also been very light since Tebow took control.

Tebow did lead that comeback last year against HOU and almost did it this year against SD but never against a great team. If Denver is ever down by 2 possessions, the game is nearly over because they can't rely on passing. Tebow can hit Decker every now and then but......


ah **** it, this argument has gone in circles more than the Daytona 500.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Track is not even in the same universe as football when it comes to the principles we're talking about

And Tebow has led a comeback versus the Jet's and Chargers, two teams they are inferior too on paper.

I agree that not turning the ball over is helping but I disagree about low scoring, good defensive/ball control/rushing teams with subpar QB play, 3 and out team not being able to win. That same model was used for years by Bill Cowher in Pittsburgh when he had Kordell Stewart and it's been used by other teams to get to the post season, like the Jason Campbell and Mark Brunell led Redskins playoff teams when Portis had to be relied on extensively to get into the playoffs...

Sure, it's always nice to have a great QB, but there's other ways of winning in the NFL and Tebow is doing that... The fact that he's not a prototypical QB is the problem people have with him, even though it shouldn't really matter how you win, but the fact that you indeed win should be looked at with a little more credit than what he's getting.
The first point by the poster I quoted said "not only football, but all walks of life". All walks of life includes everything so I stated an example that related to me. Apples and oranges, yes, but a walk of life.

The Jets have a QB who is slightly more polished than Tebow and the Chargers are in the dumps. Tebow "led" the comeback by simply being the QB. He did an immaculate job at the end of the Jets game (that had me going ape ****) and did OK against the Chargers.

But this isn't a league where you can just come back all the time without failure. Yes, the model of run-first/defense too is one that has done well. You can even throw in Willie Parker/Jerome Bettis too. However, look what they did (sans last drive) against NYJ. McGahee, granted on a bum hamstring (right, ?) was contained. The offense didn't do anything with a short field. Brunell was a veteran that knew what to do in the offense. Tebow is still a rookie really.

I like when a defense compliments an offense, not when a defense outplays it.

Tebow is finding a way to win by simply being the QB. Von Miller, Champ Bailey, etc. are helping their team win. Tebow hasn't found some untapped way of winning. He's just doing the VY agenda.

I'm not Tebow-basher, in fact I love it. If I were a fan, I'd hate it but damn, I wasn't alive when Leatherheads were playing so I find it cool.

Anyway my main point is that I'm not some "football elitist" that thinks there is only one way to win. However, when a QB looks lost for most of the game; I can't take them seriously as a long-term option. A 7-9 team won a playoff game last year, so I bet Tebow could win a playoff game. That's no big deal really.

I, at least, hope Denver fans are happy they are winning. I'd sacrifice a lot to see the Colts get one.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Track is not even in the same universe as football when it comes to the principles we're talking about.

And Tebow has led a comeback versus the Jet's and Chargers, two teams they are inferior too on paper.
Here is the point that everyone is trying to make.

Tim Tebow would not have had to make the comeback against the Jets if he hadn't been absurdly awful for 55 minutes of the game. He managed to lead the Broncos to a 3-13 conversion rate in 3rd down situations over the course of the game and 2 of those 3rd down conversions came on the final drive! Tebow led the team to a total of 11 first downs the ENTIRE GAME and 4 of those were on the final drive. That means for 55 minutes, Tebow got a total of 7 first downs. That's ridiculously bad.

At the bottom of the situation is the fact that the Broncos would NEED these heroics from their QB if they had a competent player under center. Put an AVERAGE QB back there and the Broncos probably seal up the game at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

What we are left talking about now is the equivalent of an outfielder in baseball who makes diving catches that are frequent Web Gems. Well what you don't see in the Web Gem is the fact that the outfielder took 4 steps back before realizing the ball was dropping in front of him. A better outfielder would have made the easy catch in a trot.

Or you see a DB in football catch up to a WR just before he reaches the goal line and you jump up and scream "What an amazing play!!!" But if you look back at the film, the DB is put in that position only because he bites hard on a double-move or fails to properly jam the receiver at the line of scrimmage. A competent DB would have prevented the play from ever reaching that point.

And with Tim Tebow, a competent QB would have placed the Broncos in a winning position significantly earlier in the game.



At the bottom of this, the question remains:

You really think the Broncos defense felt good every time they had to strap on the helmet after a 3-and-out? Look at those 9 drives in the middle. There was 1 turnover on the first play of the possession, seven 3-and-outs and [b]one possession[b] that lasted a whole 6 plays?

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Old 12-04-2011, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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It can be used in all walks of life, but still football and track are two very different sports... I assume you played before...?

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Originally Posted by Philliez01 View Post
The first point by the poster I quoted said "not only football, but all walks of life". All walks of life includes everything so I stated an example that related to me. Apples and oranges, yes, but a walk of life.

The Jets have a QB who is slightly more polished than Tebow and the Chargers are in the dumps. Tebow "led" the comeback by simply being the QB. He did an immaculate job at the end of the Jets game (that had me going ape ****) and did OK against the Chargers.

But this isn't a league where you can just come back all the time without failure. Yes, the model of run-first/defense too is one that has done well. You can even throw in Willie Parker/Jerome Bettis too. However, look what they did (sans last drive) against NYJ. McGahee, granted on a bum hamstring (right, ?) was contained. The offense didn't do anything with a short field. Brunell was a veteran that knew what to do in the offense. Tebow is still a rookie really.

I like when a defense compliments an offense, not when a defense outplays it.

Tebow is finding a way to win by simply being the QB. Von Miller, Champ Bailey, etc. are helping their team win. Tebow hasn't found some untapped way of winning. He's just doing the VY agenda.

I'm not Tebow-basher, in fact I love it. If I were a fan, I'd hate it but damn, I wasn't alive when Leatherheads were playing so I find it cool.

Anyway my main point is that I'm not some "football elitist" that thinks there is only one way to win. However, when a QB looks lost for most of the game; I can't take them seriously as a long-term option. A 7-9 team won a playoff game last year, so I bet Tebow could win a playoff game. That's no big deal really.

I, at least, hope Denver fans are happy they are winning. I'd sacrifice a lot to see the Colts get one.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:34 AM    (permalink
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Well John Elway wouldn't have had to make all his great comebacks if he did things more efficiently earlier in the game, right? I guess that's why they play 60 minutes instead of 55... Look man, It's no secret that Tebow needs work, but he's still making plays when they matter MOST and people brushing that off like it doesn't even matter is just down right stupid...

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Here is the point that everyone is trying to make.

Tim Tebow would not have had to make the comeback against the Jets if he hadn't been absurdly awful for 55 minutes of the game. He managed to lead the Broncos to a 3-13 conversion rate in 3rd down situations over the course of the game and 2 of those 3rd down conversions came on the final drive! Tebow led the team to a total of 11 first downs the ENTIRE GAME and 4 of those were on the final drive. That means for 55 minutes, Tebow got a total of 7 first downs. That's ridiculously bad.

At the bottom of the situation is the fact that the Broncos would NEED these heroics from their QB if they had a competent player under center. Put an AVERAGE QB back there and the Broncos probably seal up the game at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

What we are left talking about now is the equivalent of an outfielder in baseball who makes diving catches that are frequent Web Gems. Well what you don't see in the Web Gem is the fact that the outfielder took 4 steps back before realizing the ball was dropping in front of him. A better outfielder would have made the easy catch in a trot.

Or you see a DB in football catch up to a WR just before he reaches the goal line and you jump up and scream "What an amazing play!!!" But if you look back at the film, the DB is put in that position only because he bites hard on a double-move or fails to properly jam the receiver at the line of scrimmage. A competent DB would have prevented the play from ever reaching that point.

And with Tim Tebow, a competent QB would have placed the Broncos in a winning position significantly earlier in the game.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular View Post
Here is the point that everyone is trying to make.

Tim Tebow would not have had to make the comeback against the Jets if he hadn't been absurdly awful for 55 minutes of the game. He managed to lead the Broncos to a 3-13 conversion rate in 3rd down situations over the course of the game and 2 of those 3rd down conversions came on the final drive! Tebow led the team to a total of 11 first downs the ENTIRE GAME and 4 of those were on the final drive. That means for 55 minutes, Tebow got a total of 7 first downs. That's ridiculously bad.

At the bottom of the situation is the fact that the Broncos would NEED these heroics from their QB if they had a competent player under center. Put an AVERAGE QB back there and the Broncos probably seal up the game at the beginning of the 4th quarter.

What we are left talking about now is the equivalent of an outfielder in baseball who makes diving catches that are frequent Web Gems. Well what you don't see in the Web Gem is the fact that the outfielder took 4 steps back before realizing the ball was dropping in front of him. A better outfielder would have made the easy catch in a trot.

Or you see a DB in football catch up to a WR just before he reaches the goal line and you jump up and scream "What an amazing play!!!" But if you look back at the film, the DB is put in that position only because he bites hard on a double-move or fails to properly jam the receiver at the line of scrimmage. A competent DB would have prevented the play from ever reaching that point.

And with Tim Tebow, a competent QB would have placed the Broncos in a winning position significantly earlier in the game.
So would you not consider Orton a competent QB?
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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It can be used in all walks of life, but still football and track are two very different sports... I assume you played before...?
I refuse to argue this point, I just made a ******* example that correlated to me and the bogus "high fives makes you a great leader" argument. I played a little organized football, but that's it.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:40 AM    (permalink
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I refuse to argue this point, I just made a ******* example that correlated to me and the bogus "high fives makes you a great leader" argument. I played a little organized football, but that's it.
It's not an argument. Football is just a totally different sport when it comes to emotionality (stole that from tropic thunder) so I'd assume you'd understand what I'm talking about if you had played in some capacity.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:25 AM    (permalink
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Here's an article that supports my case...

SAN DIEGO -- On Saturday, Denver quarterback Tim Tebow stood in front of his teammates, both offense and defense, to deliver a message that resonated deep into Sunday evening, long after the Broncos battled it out with the Chargers in overtime for a fifth consecutive win.

It was another quote from the Bible, another expression of his religion that many of his critics seem to believe borders on overly pious devotion.

"As iron sharpens iron, men sharpen men," Tebow told the group, loosely quoting Proverbs 27:17.

Do Tebow's constant references to his Christianity still bother you? Maybe they do. And that's your prerogative. For what it's worth, linebacker Von Miller, the havoc-wreaking rookie with 10.5 sacks who is among the biggest reasons for Tebow's recent success, was inspired by that quote.


"What he said really stuck with me," said Miller as he walked toward the team bus. "Just having that guy around, it makes us better men. I think he plays for us, and he makes us want to play for him."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...-to-tebowmania
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:37 AM    (permalink
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Pretty funny how you can neg repped so much when even the players on the team are saying the exact same thing I am... You all that are doing it are a ******* joke..
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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Pretty funny how you can neg repped so much when even the players on the team are saying the exact same thing I am... You all that are doing it are a ******* joke..
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Old 12-04-2011, 01:50 AM    (permalink
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It's too bad religion is banned on here, I'm sure you could somehow use bible scripture to help support your case.
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