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View Poll Results: which white boy is best?
Eric Decker 11 7.48%
Austin Collie 1 0.68%
Brandon Stokely 0 0%
Jordy Nelson 43 29.25%
Wes Wlker 86 58.50%
Anthony Gonzalez 0 0%
Julian Edelman 0 0%
Blair White 2 1.36%
- Other 4 2.72%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-21-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
JordanTaber
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Wes Welker is the most overrated player in the history of professional football.

A career number 3 receiver who couldn't beat a legitimate starting cornerback one-on-one to save his life. Yet since he's thrown 10-15 quick hitches/WR screens/passes into vacated zones per game in the slot, the stat-***** fans think they have no choice but to acknowledge his "awesomenezzzzzz."

I guess they missed when Julian Edelman came in and caught about 8 balls per game in his place.

Ya know what the most important stat for a receiver is? CLEARLY receptionssss!!!

Derek Loville caught 87 balls for the 49ers in 1995. What a stud pass catching back he was, yo. No system involved there or anything. "Doi, all da players play in a system, you gots to executes!"
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Eric Big Dick Decker.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JordanTaber View Post
Wes Welker is the most overrated player in the history of professional football.

A career number 3 receiver who couldn't beat a legitimate starting cornerback one-on-one to save his life. Yet since he's thrown 10-15 quick hitches/WR screens/passes into vacated zones per game in the slot, the stat-***** fans think they have no choice but to acknowledge his "awesomenezzzzzz."

I guess they missed when Julian Edelman came in and caught about 8 balls per game in his place.

Ya know what the most important stat for a receiver is? CLEARLY receptionssss!!!

Derek Loville caught 87 balls for the 49ers in 1995. What a stud pass catching back he was, yo. No system involved there or anything. "Doi, all da players play in a system, you gots to executes!"
He is short-changing Welker's ability but he makes some points that I've always thought as well...

Jordy is a better WIDE receiver, no doubt. But the crux of the argument deals with system, routes, the fact that they play different positions and about 100 other variables that aren't accounted for much when you ask "who would you rather have" or "who is better."
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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can i change my vote?
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Old 11-21-2011, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Joe Jurevicius
Good call.
Going back a bit further, I will say Don Beebe!

The original "White Lightning" played in 5 Super Bowls in a 6-year span!
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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can i change my vote?
MATT MUTHAF@%$KIN JONES

welker is overrated i agree with who said that, its like the patriots making danny woodhead look like a useful NFL player, its a hoax. Hes a good slot receiver, just filthy at underneath routes and a great return man because hes absolutely fearless but the pats use him to his maximum ability.

jordy ftw
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm just pleased that we are even having this discussion, because the drafting of Jordy at the time was a big WTF moment for me.
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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I'm just pleased that we are even having this discussion, because the drafting of Jordy at the time was a big WTF moment for me.
I think after Jordy's performance yesterday he is in fact the best white wide receiver ... He is better than Welker, and he can be productive lining up on the outside, unlike Welker...
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Old 11-21-2011, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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can i change my vote?
How anyone was surprised that this guy was caught snorting blow in an empty parking lot is beyond me.
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Old 11-22-2011, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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Blair ******* White.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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would it be weird for me to say that i enjoy having breed as a member here?
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:08 AM    (permalink
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would it be weird for me to say that i enjoy having breed as a member here?
I agree. I propose whatever the opposite of rep rape is.
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:49 AM    (permalink
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I agree. I propose whatever the opposite of rep rape is.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:05 AM    (permalink
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I really don't understand all this hate for Welker and I'm really trying not to be a homer here.

But the arguements saying he is a slot WR and only runs underneath routes are ridiculous. That's like saying Jermon Bushrod is a better offensive lineman than Carl Nicks or Jahri Evans because he plays LT instead of OG.

With the proliferation of spread offenses the slot WR is every bit as important as the X or the Z. Calvin Johnson couldn't do what Wes Welker does in the same way that Welker clearly can't do what Calvin does. Welker doesn't have the size, strength or long speed to be effective out wide. Likewise Calvin doesn't have the route running ability, quickness or ability to exploit zones that Welker does.

You can say that certain players are more talented than Welker by all means but the fact of the matter is he is the best at what he does in the NFL, maybe all time.

And I understand why people hate stats. It's easy to look at numbers without even watching games and form opinions, but at the end of the day the most important thing in the NFL is production, and Welker's production the last four years is unrivalled. You can be ridiculously talented but if you don't produce then you aren't doing much to help your team
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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If anyone could do what Welker does, they probably would do it, wouldn't they?
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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A career number 3 receiver who couldn't beat a legitimate starting cornerback one-on-one to save his life. Yet since he's thrown 10-15 quick hitches/WR screens/passes into vacated zones per game in the slot, the stat-***** fans think they have no choice but to acknowledge his "awesomenezzzzzz."
You're clearly not watching closely enough, the passes you described only makes up about 1/3 of Welker's game. He does most of his work on outs, whips, and drags which are routes that take a lot of short area quickness, ability to sell a route, and ability to catch the ball away from your body. Not necessarily the easiest things in the league to do. However, I guess it's easier to hate and make unfounded assumptions though.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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If anyone could do what Welker does, they probably would do it, wouldn't they?
Other wide receivers are busy winning matchups on the outside. Calvin Johnson, for instance, runs down the field and dominates with his size and athleticism. The Lions could spread it out, put him in the slot, and have him catching 110 balls for 1100 yards per season, but that would be a waste of his talent.

There are dozens of receivers who can do what Welker does, they just don't play for teams that are so eager to throw it to the slot receiver. Eddie Royal can do everything Welker can do, for example. Put him in New England and he's catching 100 balls for 1,000 yards every year.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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You're clearly not watching closely enough, the passes you described only makes up about 1/3 of Welker's game. He does most of his work on outs, whips, and drags which are routes that take a lot of short area quickness, ability to sell a route, and ability to catch the ball away from your body. Not necessarily the easiest things in the league to do. However, I guess it's easier to hate and make unfounded assumptions though.
Those little outs he runs are only successful against zone or a large amount of cushion, and any sort of drag or crossing pattern gets him matched up with linebackers.

Let me know when he beats a halfway respectable corner in man coverage.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:52 PM    (permalink
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Welker has 74 catches for 1028 yards, not 100, and with 6 games to go. 13.9 YPC is not just some guy who stays underneath and gets taken down as soon as he catches it - whether it's downfield or YAC, he's still putting up a respectible "outside" WR average per catch.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:52 AM    (permalink
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Other wide receivers are busy winning matchups on the outside. Calvin Johnson, for instance, runs down the field and dominates with his size and athleticism. The Lions could spread it out, put him in the slot, and have him catching 110 balls for 1100 yards per season, but that would be a waste of his talent.

There are dozens of receivers who can do what Welker does, they just don't play for teams that are so eager to throw it to the slot receiver. Eddie Royal can do everything Welker can do, for example. Put him in New England and he's catching 100 balls for 1,000 yards every year.
I love your logic here. Dozens of WRs could have had 506 catches for over 5500 yards and 28 TDs in less than 5 years? As I mentioned in a previous post, production is the most important thing in the NFL, so why don't more teams do this?

Or are you clearly saying that so many other teams have such fantastic offensive systems that they can afford not to make a crappy WR into the focal point of the best offense in the league over that 5 year span?

If teams had a player like Welker then they would be using that player like the Patriots use Welker. The spread type offense is the en vogue offense in the NFL at the minute and the Patriots have been the top team at using it since 2007.

It is idiotic to say that they wouldn't use a player the same, or similar, to how the Pats use Welker. And no, Calvin Johnson couldn't do what what Welker does. He simply does not have the short area quickness or route running ability.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by mellojello View Post
Given Jordy's physical skill set, I think the Packers got a steal. Some credit has to go to the GB organization for recognizing his talent early and locking him up, which GB is known for doing. I don't think it is necessairly indicative of Jordy's worth though.
This is true. In hindsight, I think that if Jordy had waited for free agency, he could have signed a contract that matches or tops Sidney Rice's 5 year, $41 Million deal; but I don't think that was the case at the time. He's really stepped it up since he signed the extension. And good for him. Too often that's not the case.

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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I love your logic here. Dozens of WRs could have had 506 catches for over 5500 yards and 28 TDs in less than 5 years? As I mentioned in a previous post, production is the most important thing in the NFL, so why don't more teams do this?
Why don't more teams do this? They're being run by idiots. Honestly, the Patriots, Packers, and a few other teams are on the cutting edge of this whole "spread" thing. It almost took off in the early-90's with the Run-n-Shoot, but none of the teams put all of the pieces together (Atlanta had the WRs, Houston had the QB, Detroit had the RB) and none of them figured out how to scout for the system.

The primary reason that WRs don't get into the HoF is that the voters still think that this "passing" thing is a fad, and you have to "establish the run" to win football games. This flies in the face of a mountain of data showing that winning teams pass to establish a lead, and then run to burn minutes off the clock. The truth is that the 70's, not the 2000s, were the outlier. But today's coaches and GMs mostly grew up on 70's football.

So why don't more teams do the things that NE does with Welker? For the same reason that Miami wasn't smart enough to use Welker the way NE uses him: they're stupid.

That's not to say that anybody can do what Welker does. He's a good WR -- one of the best in the NFL. I think a guy like Greg Jennings could pretty clearly do what Welker does if that's how GB wanted to use him, but I'm not so sure that Welker could do what Jennings does. With that said, when you get into discussions of Welker vs. Jennings, you're obviously talking about elite WRs.

Last edited by WCH : 11-23-2011 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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That's easy. Wes Walker. With Jordan coming in second.
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Old 11-24-2011, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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Jordy Nelson is the most athletic white WR in the league by far. But the best, has to go Wes Welker (who I also think is overrated, almost anybody can look good in the Pats system).
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