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Old 01-10-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Weeden is totally down on my board...I can't get over the age thing. The Tannehill injury took some of the excitement out of the Senior Bowl QBs.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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It's not exactly a surprise, but I confirmed on the podcast that Missouri TE Michael Egnew will indeed be at the Senior Bowl. Here is a link to that show if anyone is interested:

Draft Countdown Podcast - January 10, 2012
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/draftco...raft-countdown
Note: Egnew Interview is Around the 30 Minute Mark
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Weeden is totally down on my board...I can't get over the age thing. The Tannehill injury took some of the excitement out of the Senior Bowl QBs.
Weeden's age is concerning but his maturity and intangibles are impressive; most coaches and general managers in the league operate on a short leash and the prospect of landing even a short-term fix at quarterback is attractive. Keep in mind that many draft prospects also move on from their teams upon fulfilling their rookie contracts.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:10 PM    (permalink
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In the interview with Egnew I asked about Weeden since they are doing pre-draft training together. I particularly asked how the age difference affects him. Some interesting stuff.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:12 PM    (permalink
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Does anyone know which QBs will be on the south team? I'm a Redskins fan and with Tannehill "injured", I'm hoping Shanahan gets to work with Foles.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:07 AM    (permalink
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The Oklahoman reporting Brandon Weeden will play in the Senior Bowl.

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Old 01-11-2012, 07:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Mitchell View Post
Does anyone know which QBs will be on the south team? I'm a Redskins fan and with Tannehill "injured", I'm hoping Shanahan gets to work with Foles.
My guess would be:

South:
Brandon Weeden
Nick Foles
Ryan Lindley

North:
Kirk Cousins
Russell Wilson
Kellen Moore

With Lindley replacing Tannehill and no other SDSU player, I imagine he'll be put on South. Boise has always been on the North squad, don't see that changing.

Don't think we have officially put Cousins on the list yet, but he was invited:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012010...sey=nav%7Chead
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
My guess would be:

South:
Brandon Weeden
Nick Foles
Ryan Lindley

North:
Kirk Cousins
Russell Wilson
Kellen Moore

With Lindley replacing Tannehill and no other SDSU player, I imagine he'll be put on South. Boise has always been on the North squad, don't see that changing.

Don't think we have officially put Cousins on the list yet, but he was invited:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012010...sey=nav%7Chead
Awesome, thank you.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
My guess would be:

South:
Brandon Weeden
Nick Foles
Ryan Lindley

North:
Kirk Cousins
Russell Wilson
Kellen Moore

With Lindley replacing Tannehill and no other SDSU player, I imagine he'll be put on South. Boise has always been on the North squad, don't see that changing.

Don't think we have officially put Cousins on the list yet, but he was invited:
http://www.freep.com/article/2012010...sey=nav%7Chead
You got all 6 of them right:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...acks-in-place/

I turn my nose up to everyone but Lindley. Moore isn't draftable to me, grossly undersized with a worse-than Ken Dorsey arm.

I also struggle getting passed Weeden's age. I'd consider him as a late rounder but I don't view him as a long term starter. He'll be past 30 before his 3rd year.

Wilson might be a slightly better Seneca Wallace at best. If Troy Smith and Tyrod Taylor found work as short, athletic backups, he probably can. Late-rounder to me.

Cousins, limited upside, meh. Late rounder.

Foles. No thanks. Another Blaine Gabbert if he's lucky. Comes from a simple offense where his completion percentage was inflated by screens and his receivers were called for him. He'll end up being overdrafted and hopefully not by a team that I like.

So that leaves me with Lindley who has plenty of flaws, but looks the part of an NFL QB more than any of those other guys.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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You got all 6 of them right:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...acks-in-place/

I turn my nose up to everyone but Lindley. Moore isn't draftable to me, grossly undersized with a worse-than Ken Dorsey arm.

I also struggle getting passed Weeden's age. I'd consider him as a late rounder but I don't view him as a long term starter. He'll be past 30 before his 3rd year.

Wilson might be a slightly better Seneca Wallace at best. If Troy Smith and Tyrod Taylor found work as short, athletic backups, he probably can. Late-rounder to me.

Cousins, limited upside, meh. Late rounder.

Foles. No thanks. Another Blaine Gabbert if he's lucky. Comes from a simple offense where his completion percentage was inflated by screens and his receivers were called for him. He'll end up being overdrafted and hopefully not by a team that I like.

So that leaves me with Lindley who has plenty of flaws, but looks the part of an NFL QB more than any of those other guys.
100% Disagree. Blaine Gabbert was a bust that I could see coming from 10 miles away. I was actually dumbfounded that he got a 1st round draft grade. Nick Foles has a better arm, doesn't look awkward in the pocket. Had a much worse supporting cast, had two FRESHMAN tackles blocking for him, and completed 70% of his passes? Watch the film, it defends Nick Foles. He's Jay Cutler all over again.

EDIT: Ryan Lindley looks the part of an NFL QB more than the other guys? Um... oh

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Old 01-11-2012, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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I like Lindley quite a bit too. I really felt he played far better than the numbers indicated this year. They were breaking in some young receivers because of graduations....and then like three of the guys they were planning on playing a lot blew out their knees. So he was really throwing to the bottom of the barrel below the previous barrel. In the three occasions I saw him on the year, there were more than a few dropped passes.I don't thin he's accurate enough to play in the NFL right now either, but that completion percentage might be a little deceptive.


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100% Disagree. Blaine Gabbert was a bust that I could see coming from 10 miles away. I was actually dumbfounded that he got a 1st round draft grade. Nick Foles has a better arm, doesn't look awkward in the pocket. Had a much worse supporting cast, had two FRESHMAN tackles blocking for him, and completed 70% of his passes? Watch the film, it defends Nick Foles. He's Jay Cutler all over again.

EDIT: Ryan Lindley looks the part of an NFL QB more than the other guys? Um... oh
Foles film is actually pretty ugly if you ask me. His arm strength is greatly exaggerated. People assume that since he's 6'5 he automatically has a cannon, but that's not the case. His accuracy is greatly inflated by that Arizona spread attack too. Combine that with the fact his footwork is terrible and you've got a non-prospect who just happens to be big.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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100% Disagree. Blaine Gabbert was a bust that I could see coming from 10 miles away. I was actually dumbfounded that he got a 1st round draft grade. Nick Foles has a better arm, doesn't look awkward in the pocket. Had a much worse supporting cast, had two FRESHMAN tackles blocking for him, and completed 70% of his passes? Watch the film, it defends Nick Foles. He's Jay Cutler all over again.

EDIT: Ryan Lindley looks the part of an NFL QB more than the other guys? Um... oh
"Ha!" to that last part.

I see umpteen million quick screens inflating his completion percentage and when he does go further downfield, everything is called for him. Make one read, if not open, check down.

People are blinded by his size and perceived arm strength. If he makes a rise up draft boards, he'll basically be Gabbert 2.0. Pocket breakdowns will lead to bad throws and the fetal position for Foles.

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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
I like Lindley quite a bit too. I really felt he played far better than the numbers indicated this year. They were breaking in some young receivers because of graduations....and then like three of the guys they were planning on playing a lot blew out their knees. So he was really throwing to the bottom of the barrel below the previous barrel. In the three occasions I saw him on the year, there were more than a few dropped passes.I don't thin he's accurate enough to play in the NFL right now either, but that completion percentage might be a little deceptive.
Overall, I'm on the fence with Lindley but I really like him in comparison to the rest of this ugly group.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Foles film is actually pretty ugly if you ask me. His arm strength is greatly exaggerated. People assume that since he's 6'5 he automatically has a cannon, but that's not the case. His accuracy is greatly inflated by that Arizona spread attack too. Combine that with the fact his footwork is terrible and you've got a non-prospect who just happens to be big.
His arm strength is exaggerated? Not a chance, ElectricEye. I'm not "assuming" anything, I've seen enough film of all the guys just like you have (I'm assuming). The Arizona spread offense is a mirror image of what Baylor runs, people don't discredit RG3's accuracy and he actually has a running game. Foles accuracy is not one of his strong suits, but don't try to use it against him and say it's one of his flaws. His footwork isn't terrible, you're wrong. Please explain to me what's terrible about his footwork? Ryan Tannehill looks AWKWARD in the pocket, his footwork is everywhere, Foles won't run for a first down, but he'll make plays under pressure.
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"Ha!" to that last part.

I see umpteen million quick screens inflating his completion percentage and when he does go further downfield, everything is called for him. Make one read, if not open, check down.

People are blinded by his size and perceived arm strength. If he makes a rise up draft boards, he'll basically be Gabbert 2.0. Pocket breakdowns will lead to bad throws and the fetal position for Foles.


Overall, I'm on the fence with Lindley but I really like him in comparison to the rest of this ugly group.
Nick Foles is Jay Cutler at Vandy. Watch the tape, I'm comparing college quarterbacks, not giving him an NFL ceiling.

You just defined Ryan Tannehill, this guy can't read the defense. You're just pulling out the classic "spread offense" arguments. Foles could work on looking at his 3rd options, but he is not locked into one receiver like Ryan Tannehill.

I'm not blinded by his size, I see an ELITE college arm. He's the second best deep thrower in this draft and it's going to translate to the NFL. Blaine Gabbert ran a spread offense, threw for 60% of Foles yards and completed 10%+ less of his passes. Not to mention Gabbert was the one who people were blinded by his "perceived arm strength".

Pocket breakdowns? Andrew Luck will face pocket breakdowns and end up in the fetal position, it's part of being an NFL quarterback, but you absolutely cannot teach Foles' arm. You can try to teach him how to work the middle ranged throws that he's lacking.

I stand by my comparison 100%, he is Jay Cutler at Vandy. Watch the tape and feel free to use it.

You'll see him skyrocket into a top 20 pick when it's all said and done, and Ryan Lindley will be begging to play in the CFL in two years.
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Marvin McNutt and Mike Daniels in.

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Old 01-11-2012, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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His arm strength is exaggerated? Not a chance, ElectricEye. I'm not "assuming" anything, I've seen enough film of all the guys just like you have (I'm assuming). The Arizona spread offense is a mirror image of what Baylor runs, people don't discredit RG3's accuracy and he actually has a running game. Foles accuracy is not one of his strong suits, but don't try to use it against him and say it's one of his flaws. His footwork isn't terrible, you're wrong. Please explain to me what's terrible about his footwork? Ryan Tannehill looks AWKWARD in the pocket, his footwork is everywhere, Foles won't run for a first down, but he'll make plays under pressure.
Well, I certainly don't see it. I think the velocity on his ball has gotten a little bit better this year compared to years past, but I just don't see anything more than an average type arm. He throws an inconsistent, wobbly football that takes way too long to get where it needs to be down the field. Not sure how you can say his accuracy can't be used to knock him either; I see inconsistent ball placement on the mid-range throws and a lack of a feel for the deep ball. People don't have the same questions about Griffin because he routinely hits out routes and receivers running the post in stride. He can hit the bubble screens all day long, but you can find guys who can do that off the street.

There's a lot wrong with his footwork. You try to look for guys who can get away from sacks, even if it's within the pocket. Foles' slow feet creates sacks. You make him move and adjust whatsoever and his accuracy and velocity leaves him. On top of that, he doesn't step into his throws the way he should either.

I've said it before, but he reminds me a ton of Tony Pike from a few years ago. Great height and statistics, but there's not a whole lot more to go on for me.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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Well, I certainly don't see it. I think the velocity on his ball has gotten a little bit better this year compared to years past, but I just don't see anything more than an average type arm. He throws an inconsistent, wobbly football that takes way too long to get where it needs to be down the field. Not sure how you can say his accuracy can't be used to knock him either; I see inconsistent ball placement on the mid-range throws and a lack of a feel for the deep ball. People don't have the same questions about Griffin because he routinely hits out routes and receivers running the post in stride. He can hit the bubble screens all day long, but you can find guys who can do that off the street.

There's a lot wrong with his footwork. You try to look for guys who can get away from sacks, even if it's within the pocket. Foles' slow feet creates sacks. You make him move and adjust whatsoever and his accuracy and velocity leaves him. On top of that, he doesn't step into his throws the way he should either.

I've said it before, but he reminds me a ton of Tony Pike from a few years ago. Great height and statistics, but there's not a whole lot more to go on for me.
Agree to disagree.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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I think Alfonzo Dennard and Lavonte David will be playing in this Game.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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If you asked me to compare QBs to Jay Cutler, Nick Foles would be one of the last names that came to my mind.

I mean, I guess if you're looking for the complete antithesis of him as a prospect you'd get Kellen Moore. But as far as the most random name that I would never guess - Foles would be it

His arm strength is mediocre. It's not a pea shooter that will limit him in the NFL but it's certainly no rocket worthy of comparison to Cutler. I do think he has some technical and delivery issues that could be fixed and improve it, though.

Cutler has decent mobility. Dude isn't taking off anywhere but he can scramble and throw on the run. Foles belongs to the dying breed of statue QBs.

Then you have the size - Cutler has a thick build at 6'3. Foles is a thin 6'5 with the body structure more reminiscent of Brady.

Pretty much the only thing they have in common is losing a lot in college
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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If you asked me to compare QBs to Jay Cutler, Nick Foles would be one of the last names that came to my mind.

I mean, I guess if you're looking for the complete antithesis of him as a prospect you'd get Kellen Moore. But as far as the most random name that I would never guess - Foles would be it

His arm strength is mediocre. It's not a pea shooter that will limit him in the NFL but it's certainly no rocket worthy of comparison to Cutler. I do think he has some technical and delivery issues that could be fixed and improve it, though.

Cutler has decent mobility. Dude isn't taking off anywhere but he can scramble and throw on the run. Foles belongs to the dying breed of statue QBs.

Then you have the size - Cutler has a thick build at 6'3. Foles is a thin 6'5 with the body structure more reminiscent of Brady.

Pretty much the only thing they have in common is losing a lot in college
You sum it up quite well, though I'd say that Cutler is probably above average as a QB when he decides to take off. That was one of his biggest strengths in Denver was bootlegs and throwing on the run, things that Martz allowed him to do very little. So the last few years, the only running we saw out of him was when he was running for his life.

So while he's no Vick, I don't think he's far behind someone like Rodgers as a runner, and he's definitely ahead of guys like Brady or Brees when it comes to just taking off and running.
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Old 01-12-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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If you asked me to compare QBs to Jay Cutler, Nick Foles would be one of the last names that came to my mind.

I mean, I guess if you're looking for the complete antithesis of him as a prospect you'd get Kellen Moore. But as far as the most random name that I would never guess - Foles would be it

His arm strength is mediocre. It's not a pea shooter that will limit him in the NFL but it's certainly no rocket worthy of comparison to Cutler. I do think he has some technical and delivery issues that could be fixed and improve it, though.

Cutler has decent mobility. Dude isn't taking off anywhere but he can scramble and throw on the run. Foles belongs to the dying breed of statue QBs.

Then you have the size - Cutler has a thick build at 6'3. Foles is a thin 6'5 with the body structure more reminiscent of Brady.

Pretty much the only thing they have in common is losing a lot in college
Foles doesn't have mediocre arm strength, it's the second best in this draft.

Foles is a statue QB? Wrong, Ryan Mallett was a statue QB, not Foles.

Brady build or not, he plays like Jay Cutler.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I can think about ten guys off the top of my head who have stronger arms in the class than Foles, and that's not even digging into the small school(such as BJ Coleman) and prospects at the bottom of the draft.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Nick Foles does not have a playing style remotely similar to Jay Cutler's and certainly not one of the strongest arms in the draft; Foles' arm strength is average at best. His strengths are his short and intermediate accuracy and ability to operate a short passing game.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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I really can't defend him anymore than I already have. I just know that based off of what I have seen from him, and what I have seen from guys in recent drafts that he's going to sky rocket post Senior Bowl and post Pro Day. The combine won't show off any of his strengths.

Maybe I'm totally off base, nothings for sure.. But I will say that Ryan Tannehill is nothing in my eyes if you take the bootleg out of his game, and I'm an MSU fan who has little faith in Cousins at the next level. I'm usually critical, but with Foles.. There's something he has.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Nick Foles does not have a playing style remotely similar to Jay Cutler's and certainly not one of the strongest arms in the draft; Foles' arm strength is average at best. His strengths are his short and intermediate accuracy and ability to operate a short passing game.
See, I find his biggest weakness is the intermediate passing game. The Wildcats offense essentially recreates the running game with short passes (we see this a lot), and it opens up a lot of deep throws that Foles excelled in this year. Last year, I only watched him once or twice.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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Nick Foles does not have a playing style remotely similar to Jay Cutler's and certainly not one of the strongest arms in the draft; Foles' arm strength is average at best. His strengths are his short and intermediate accuracy and ability to operate a short passing game.
That's the polite way of saying he threw a LOT of screens. LOT.

And like I said before, when he wasn't throwing a screen, it was a read that was called for him and if that guy wasn't open, check down.

I think he's going to be Blaine Gabbert all over again.
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