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Old 07-28-2014, 09:29 PM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Default Is John Abraham a HOF player?

He is 9th on the all time sack list. If he plays this season and gets 9 sacks he'll be 6th on that list. Add in 48 forced fumbles over 400 tackles from a DE, played a little OLB. Had 10 plus sacks 8 times in his 15 seasons.


What do you guys think?
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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Hall of very good?
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Gut reaction is no. He is a great passrusher but I'm not sure about his all around game. His numbers put him in the conversation but I wouldn't put him in.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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No, because he's not a media darling, he hasn't won a Super Bowl and he hasn't played for a media favorite franchise like the Patriots or Giants.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:03 PM    (permalink
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Hall of very good?
This.

Very good, very consistent. Never lead the league in sacks. 5 pro bowls and 2 time first team all pro in 14 years.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Good luck. Kevin Greene isn't even in.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Good luck. Kevin Greene isn't even in.
That's a great point! We could have a talk about Greene not being in. I feel that has to do with all the team moving he did. 4 Teams, 5 stops. Lets say he played for the Rams the whole time... He'd most likely be in.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:45 PM    (permalink
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No, I just don't think he ever was someone severely dominant and elite for much time if at all.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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He's really just a guy who accumulated numbers by being around forever. I can't remember even once thinking "ah, ****...John Abraham is going to wreck my team's QB this week." He's never been a dominant guy.

I'm not sure he's ever had a season in which I'd consider him a slam-dunk top 5 edge rusher...just a few where he had an argument for it.

For me, he's not even a borderline case. He's more the "hall of guys who were pretty good and who were lucky enough to stick around for a long time."

He's a more resilient Aaron Schobel.

If he were a receiver, he'd be Hines Ward or Muhsin Muhammad.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:45 AM    (permalink
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IMO John Abraham has been a top 5-10 pass rusher nearly every season of his NFL career. He may not have the automatic 'wow' factor when you think of his name because he didn't necessarily play on dominant championship, marquee teams, but I won't have a problem if he makes it to Canton.

Sort of like the Curtis Martin of pass rushers. Good their entire careers, but when you look back and realize how long they've been consistently outstanding players, they trip the switch for me over to great.

If Abraham had played for the Cowboys/Giants/Bears/Patriots, I think we'd be talking about him as a lock HOFer.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:11 AM    (permalink
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No, hes not. He was very good for a long time but the hall isnt for the good to very good, especially without extra credentials...records, rings, MVPs ect
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:29 AM    (permalink
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Others have said it. He is very good but Kevin Greene is better and not in yet. And that is ridiculous. I vividly remember his time with the Panthers. I was just getting into football at the time and he jumped off the screen. And was at the end of his career to.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:53 AM    (permalink
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I have to vote no. More of a longevity guy than someone who defined their era.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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No, but he gets in as a veteran's committee vote eventually.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Others have said it. He is very good but Kevin Greene is better and not in yet. And that is ridiculous. I vividly remember his time with the Panthers. I was just getting into football at the time and he jumped off the screen. And was at the end of his career to.
He was a beast in Pittsburgh before that as well. There are plenty of players in the HOF who have no business being there, that said look how long it took Derrick Thomas to get in, and he was ahead of Greene at the same time. I can't believe Greene has much eligibility left either. Maybe I'm drawing a blank at the moment, but I can't think of a single pass rusher who is HOF eligible who deserves to be in more than Greene.

Greene played a role in a defense that literally revolutionized the game. There are few, if any players who have actually had more impact on the sport the last 30 years, and really none on defense.

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Old 07-29-2014, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Kevin Greene is third on the official sacks list. Since the NFL began officially recording sacks, only Bruce Smith and Reggie White have topped him (although they both beat him by about 40 sacks...they really were beasts). I don't think I can get on board with any pass rushers getting in before Greene does. Once he's in, then we can start talking about guys like Jason Taylor, John Abraham, and Jared Allen.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Kevin Greene is third on the official sacks list. Since the NFL began officially recording sacks, only Bruce Smith and Reggie White have topped him (although they both beat him by about 40 sacks...they really were beasts). I don't think I can get on board with any pass rushers getting in before Greene does. Once he's in, then we can start talking about guys like Jason Taylor, John Abraham, and Jared Allen.
And he didn't have the off the field issues that say Lawrence Taylor had, and although I won't dispute LT was the better play, ultimately I believe Greene did more for the game than LT ever did. Without his unique skill set, the 3-4 may never catch on the way it did across both the NFL and College. That defines a HOF career to me, especially if the stats back it up.

Michael Strahan never should have made the HOF before Greene.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I get the love for Kevin Greene and agree he should have been in the HOF years ago, but the question is about John Abraham.

Just because Greene hasn't gotten into Canton yet doesn't mean Abraham is or isn't HOF worthy.

There are tiers in Canton. Not everyone in the HOF revolutionized or redefined the game of football.

Many of them are players who were simply among the best of their generation to play at their position, which is a HUGE accolade and accomplishment in the NFL.

Many on this board have a very restrictive criteria for Canton that's a little too harsh IMO.

Abraham is by no means a lock for the HOF, but there's a place in Canton for a guy with his production.

An aside, how did Howie Long get into the HOF with 84 sacks?? Was he really that good against the run too??

I think Long was first ballot also.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Abraham really is a unique case in my opinion. First off, no I don't see him getting into the HOF but it is not a ridiculous question at all. He has been consistent and a very good player for a long time, but he doesn't fit the typical profile of the players that usually have that kind of career. The guy was a very high pick and a freak athlete. I really feel like with his talent and ability to stay on the field, he is a guy who could have done even more than he has. He really improved as his career went on, too.

Honestly his career numbers are very similar to Julius Peppers'. Maybe not the household name or not as many splash plays, but the numbers are very similar outside of tackles and interceptions.

He just got accused of a DUI too apparently, don't know if that was mentioned.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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I get the love for Kevin Greene and agree he should have been in the HOF years ago, but the question is about John Abraham.

Just because Greene hasn't gotten into Canton yet doesn't mean Abraham is or isn't HOF worthy.

There are tiers in Canton. Not everyone in the HOF revolutionized or redefined the game of football.

Many of them are players who were simply among the best of their generation to play at their position, which is a HUGE accolade and accomplishment in the NFL.

Many on this board have a very restrictive criteria for Canton that's a little too harsh IMO.

Abraham is by no means a lock for the HOF, but there's a place in Canton for a guy with his production.

An aside, how did Howie Long get into the HOF with 84 sacks?? Was he really that good against the run too??

I think Long was first ballot also.
This is because football isn't baseball with magical numbers that guarantee enshrinement, it is more often than not an eyeball test. Remembering how a player dominated a game even if stats didn't show that. Some players get in for being famous more than their playing career (Joe Namath and Michael Strahan).

Unfortunately this leads to some mind bottling results, like Kevin Greene and Cris Carter not being first our second ballot selections. I honestly have no idea how to predict who becomes a HOF WR other than Randy Moss and Megatron from recent years.

However I don't think you can discuss a players HOF credentials without comparing him to players who have and haven't been enshrined.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Abraham really is a unique case in my opinion. First off, no I don't see him getting into the HOF but it is not a ridiculous question at all. He has been consistent and a very good player for a long time, but he doesn't fit the typical profile of the players that usually have that kind of career. The guy was a very high pick and a freak athlete. I really feel like with his talent and ability to stay on the field, he is a guy who could have done even more than he has. He really improved as his career went on, too.

Honestly his career numbers are very similar to Julius Peppers'. Maybe not the household name or not as many splash plays, but the numbers are very similar outside of tackles and interceptions.

He just got accused of a DUI too apparently, don't know if that was mentioned.
He is the embodiment of a veteran's committee selection. The type of player who went unappreciated by the media, but whom later gets remembered as being damned good.
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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If this board is around in 15-20 years, I'd love to revisit this thread and compare who was the better South Carolina Gamecock pass rusher in the NFL; Clowney or Abraham???
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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The standard for nonQBs is so much higher. It may not be fair, but he's not even the best DE on the waiting list.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:15 AM    (permalink
FUNBUNCHER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descendency View Post
The standard for nonQBs is so much higher. It may not be fair, but he's not even the best DE on the waiting list.
True.

You look at the guys on the alltime career sack list and it's like OMG.
And most of them aren't in the HOF.


If Abraham can remain in the top 10 for another decade, eventually he's going to get in, I'd bet.
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Old 07-30-2014, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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definitely not, get real.
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