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Old 01-25-2015, 08:09 PM    (permalink
thetedginnshow
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Default PFF determines how far each team is away from a SB

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/stor...-bowl-was-team

Don't know how accurate that actually is, but kind of cool. Could be either demoralizing or encouraging depending on your team lol.
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Old 01-25-2015, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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holy crap jags lol
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:00 PM    (permalink
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What's terrible about that is that when you click on the team for the analysis, like half of it is written by ESPN guys...like those stupid QB letter grades.

Andy Dalton gets a grade of C? No. A C is average. Andy Dalton's season was a dumpster fire. The ESPN guy saying he was "good enough to have helped Cincy to the postseason" is so dumb.

On the Bears page, one ESPN guy writes in the main part that Jay Cutler was average (I wish). Then later, the ESPN guy who gave Dalton a C gives Cutler an F and says his season was "disastrous."

Yeah, Cutler sucked this season...but Andy Dalton was an entirely different level of bad.

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Old 01-25-2015, 09:17 PM    (permalink
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What does it even mean to be an "average" QB?
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
What's terrible about that is that when you click on the team for the analysis, like half of it is written by ESPN guys...like those stupid QB letter grades.

Andy Dalton gets a grade of C? No. A C is average. Andy Dalton's season was a dumpster fire. The ESPN guy saying he was "good enough to have helped Cincy to the postseason" is so dumb.

On the Bears page, one ESPN guy writes in the main part that Jay Cutler was average (I wish). Then later, the ESPN guy who gave Dalton a C gives Cutler an F and says his season was "disastrous."

Yeah, Cutler sucked this season...but Andy Dalton was an entirely different level of bad.
Andy Dalton has the best group of skill players in the NFL. He is terrible. It is painful to watch him consistently fail to run one of the most talented offenses in the league.
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Old 01-25-2015, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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They put so much into the web design for that, but the content is ****.
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Old 01-25-2015, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Andy Dalton has the best group of skill players in the NFL. He is terrible. It is painful to watch him consistently fail to run one of the most talented offenses in the league.
Man if Bengals set of skill players in the NFL then the rest of the NFL must be awful because the Bengals receiving core was garbage this year. They had to go out and sign Greg Little if that tells you anything.
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Old 01-25-2015, 11:48 PM    (permalink
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Man if Bengals set of skill players in the NFL then the rest of the NFL must be awful because the Bengals receiving core was garbage this year. They had to go out and sign Greg Little if that tells you anything.
I'm thinking of AJ Green/Marvin Jones/Mohammad Sanu, Gresham/Eifert, and Jeremy Hill/Giovani Bernard. I don't watch the Bengals with any regularity, so I could be misinformed (or did they have big injury issues?) but my impression is that that's a really talented group of weapons, all of whom are factors catching passes.

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Old 01-26-2015, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Question, do folks here still take PFF's grading seriously? I appreciate the work they do and all but I've pretty much taken their stuff with a grain of salt for the past few years now
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Question, do folks here still take PFF's grading seriously? I appreciate the work they do and all but I've pretty much taken their stuff with a grain of salt for the past few years now
I think the site has its uses but people who blindly belive everything in it are the frustrating ones.

I really don't agree with a lot of their grading for a few reasons. Difficulty of assignment, quality of opposition etc isn't taken into consideration (probably for obvious reasons, ie who determines whether picking off Aaron Rodgers is a better play than picking off another QB etc) and for me this gives a watered down version of what you are seeing. However, it should be used more for the in depth statistical points it provides.

It is much more relevant to know that Marshawn Lynch picked up 80 yards after contact in one game rather than being graded as +2.9 based on an arbitrary scale.
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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It's nice to see the Cowboys are considered being right there (which I thought anyway)... it's been a struggle for the last few years up to this point having to always here about how bad your team is.
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Old 01-26-2015, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I think the site has its uses but people who blindly belive everything in it are the frustrating ones.

I really don't agree with a lot of their grading for a few reasons. Difficulty of assignment, quality of opposition etc isn't taken into consideration (probably for obvious reasons, ie who determines whether picking off Aaron Rodgers is a better play than picking off another QB etc) and for me this gives a watered down version of what you are seeing. However, it should be used more for the in depth statistical points it provides.

It is much more relevant to know that Marshawn Lynch picked up 80 yards after contact in one game rather than being graded as +2.9 based on an arbitrary scale.
Not to mention that they don't use coaches tape, rush through their grades in like 8 hours, and I don't really think their analysts have a deep enough understanding of football to do what they do.
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Not to mention that they don't use coaches tape, rush through their grades in like 8 hours, and I don't really think their analysts have a deep enough understanding of football to do what they do.
Yeah I think the article the mmqb.com put up about them the other day was good for highlighting both the strengths and weaknesses of the site. It states that 40% of teams employ them in some fashion for their data but I would guess that the vast majority of them want stuff such as how often a certain WR lines up in the slot, how often teams pass out of heavy sets and the average depth of drop on 3rd and long for a Qb etc

When it comes to looking at specific schematic tendancies such as passing concepts, DB techniques, blocking schemes etc I would hedge my bets that teams use their own pro scouts and coaches for that.

What PFF offers is a quick resource of mundane data which would require teams to pay their own staff to collate. This allows them to use their resources in other ways. But if anyone thinks they are using it as a scouting service then they are kidding themselves.
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I dont get how teams like the browns, eagles, and panthers are "closer" than the steelers, i dont disagree with the steelers ranking but the teams around them are kind of confusing.

Especially considering how similar the steelers and cowboys rosters are
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Old 01-26-2015, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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I dont get how teams like the browns, eagles, and panthers are "closer" than the steelers, i dont disagree with the steelers ranking but the teams around them are kind of confusing.

Especially considering how similar the steelers and cowboys rosters are
I can maybe understand the Panthers and Eagles.

Panthers - good, young QB and an offense which should improve with better depth. On defense they have some young guys who are franchise building blocks like Keuchly, Star and Shortt. They also play in an historically crappy division.

Eagles - offensive mastermind at HC and great skill players. Ability to turn it over on defense. Held back by QB. This one is close with the Steelers but i can understand it.

The Browns I don't get though. Average run game, terrible skill players and no QB. Defensively they have a bit of talent with Haden, Mingo etc but a few guys who are more name than anything (Kruger, Whitner etc) and a culutre of not giving a **** - see Manziel, Gordon, Gilbert

As for the Steelers, they have a great QB, great RB and great Wr with some depth. It isn't their offense though that is worrisome. Their defense is really lacking any kind of top notch talent. A severe infusion of youth and talent is needed on the side and they play in a pretty tough division
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I can maybe understand the Panthers and Eagles.

Panthers - good, young QB and an offense which should improve with better depth. On defense they have some young guys who are franchise building blocks like Keuchly, Star and Shortt. They also play in an historically crappy division.

Eagles - offensive mastermind at HC and great skill players. Ability to turn it over on defense. Held back by QB. This one is close with the Steelers but i can understand it.

The Browns I don't get though. Average run game, terrible skill players and no QB. Defensively they have a bit of talent with Haden, Mingo etc but a few guys who are more name than anything (Kruger, Whitner etc) and a culutre of not giving a **** - see Manziel, Gordon, Gilbert

As for the Steelers, they have a great QB, great RB and great Wr with some depth. It isn't their offense though that is worrisome. Their defense is really lacking any kind of top notch talent. A severe infusion of youth and talent is needed on the side and they play in a pretty tough division
The cowboys defensive talent is questionable at best too though, the steelers being old on defense is a cliche at this point....with troy and ike likely out im pretty sure every single starter will be in their mid 20s. Tuitt and heyward look legit on the dline, shazier and jones are still question marks though which i suppose hurts them. I imagine a pass rusher and CB are going to be high on the list for the draft this year, but they came into last season with horrible expectations and played admirably for Brice Mccain and Antwon Blake being the starters at CB and Jarvis disloating his wrist and Shazier getting rolled up on from friendly fire twice

I dont get why chip kelly is universally referred to as an offensive mastermind....just because its fast paced? Its far from perfect and far from unstoppable and hasnt really gotten them very far to this point.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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I get a very Colts-esque vibe from the Steelers. I feel like all the pieces are there for them to be a very good regular season team, and statistically they seem like a challenge, but when it actually comes to winning 3-4 playoff games that it would take to win the SB they seem like they're a long ways off.

I don't know what exactly that means, but I was pretty much certain that they were going to lose to the Ravens.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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I get a very Colts-esque vibe from the Steelers. I feel like all the pieces are there for them to be a very good regular season team, and statistically they seem like a challenge, but when it actually comes to winning 3-4 playoff games that it would take to win the SB they seem like they're a long ways off.

I don't know what exactly that means, but I was pretty much certain that they were going to lose to the Ravens.
I had a bad feeling, but they missed bell in a big way.

I guess bells injury was worse than they let on and he still wouldnt have been cleared, but if they pulled it out against the ravens i think they could have beaten denver.

I think they need a couple impact pieces on defense, but getting butler claling the shots is an exciting/scary time for the defense because i do think it was time for a change
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I had a bad feeling, but they missed bell in a big way.

I guess bells injury was worse than they let on and he still wouldnt have been cleared, but if they pulled it out against the ravens i think they could have beaten denver.

I think they need a couple impact pieces on defense, but getting butler claling the shots is an exciting/scary time for the defense because i do think it was time for a change
There in lies the problem with the Steelers right now. Their team is too dependent on 2 guys. The Seahawks have such an amazing defense that it would take multiple big injuries to tangibly make an impact. The Pats are functionally good in most areas on top of having that elite high level talent. Injuries are going to happen, so the Steelers need some more things to lean upon besides Brown and Bell, because even if those 2 are healthy good teams can find a way to shut both of then down enough to win.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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There in lies the problem with the Steelers right now. Their team is too dependent on 2 guys. The Seahawks have such an amazing defense that it would take multiple big injuries to tangibly make an impact. The Pats are functionally good in most areas on top of having that elite high level talent. Injuries are going to happen, so the Steelers need some more things to lean upon besides Brown and Bell, because even if those 2 are healthy good teams can find a way to shut both of then down enough to win.
Maybe, but they missed bell for his threat out of the backfield and his prowess as a blocker...we havent had a RB run on the ravens in a decade, but he was clearly missed.

Brown is another animal though, guy was always open all season long. Really adding a corner and an OLB will be a huge boost for the defense, a major problem with the steelers is ben hasnt played big in a big game in a few years now and that used to be his M-O. Team will go as far as he can take them and he is the one vying for a $22 million/year contract. Pieces are there on offense, including a very underrated offensive line that has been completely revamped with talent and had munchak sprinkle munchak oline fairy dust on them.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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According to that, there are 19 teams more SB-ready than the Colts. Seriously? I realize we got our asses kicked in the AFC CG but come on, 19? PFF has some uses but it goes off the rails fast if you try to conclude too much from it.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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As soon as I saw that Laron Landry and Trent Richardson were ranked higher than Greg Toler I was essentially out on the Colts analysis.

I also would have bumped Luck up to elite, but I can understand why they didn't.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Robert Quinn isn't elite? lol ok.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Robert Quinn isn't elite? lol ok.
Robert Quinn sucked this year.
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Old 01-26-2015, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
According to that, there are 19 teams more SB-ready than the Colts. Seriously? I realize we got our asses kicked in the AFC CG but come on, 19? PFF has some uses but it goes off the rails fast if you try to conclude too much from it.
PFF's rankings are akin to WAR/Advanced stats in baseball. Once people realize and accept this, they will realize that its a tool that has merit and pretty accurately reflects on-field play but not a be-all-end-all.

On that note, I find it hilarious that the very same people that cling to baseball's advanced stats like they are golden tickets are so quick to dismiss and bash PFF.
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