The Coaching Change Thread

[SuperPacker]

Chip Kelly needs to convince Marcus Mariota to come out next year.

[SickwithIt1010]

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

Chip Kelly needs to convince Marcus Mariota to come out next year.

I can see them going with a guy like Geno if he impresses at his workouts and is available at 4.

[fenikz]

Darrell Bevell interviewing right now

will hold a press conference at 2:15

[bearsfan_51]

Looks like all seven openings will be going to offensive guys. Welcome to the new NFL.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Looks like all seven openings will be going to offensive guys. Welcome to the new NFL.

I'll quote Michael Lombardi again

"When everyone is thinking the same, no one is thinking"

More than half of these hires will wash out. Then someone will hire a Ray Horton or other defensive coach who has success and we'll wonder what took so long.

I hate when teams follow trends instead of trying to set them. The teams with the edge are the ones who move in the opposite direction of the league.

[bearsfan_51]

I normally agree with that mentality, but in this league you almost have to score 30+ a game to win. The rules have changed everything.

The new norm is to look for a head coach that knows quarterbacks and delegate everything else.

[BeerBaron]

Ray Horton may get hired and have success, but as soon as that happens, someone will hire his offensive coordinator away and lead to disruption on that side of the ball where it can be least afforded.

When you have an offensive minded head coach, it's always going to be his system on that side of the ball. Another guy may call the plays and do the grunt work, but it's the head coach's system. If his OC gets hired away, simply promote a position coach and reassert some control until that guy is ready to handle things.

I think that is a big reason we are seeing more offensive coaches getting hired to head jobs.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

I normally agree with that mentality, but in this league you almost have to score 30+ a game to win. The rules have changed everything.

The new norm is to look for a head coach that knows quarterbacks and delegate everything else.

Depends. Russell Wilson is doing just fine with Pete Carroll at HC. Luck has a defensive HC (technically). Cam has a defensive head coach. So does Freeman who had a bounceback year.

Stafford has a defensive head coach.

Sometimes we give too much credit to the offensive coordinator. Sometimes, the qb is gonna suck bc he sucks, and sometimes he's gonna be good regardless of who his OC is bc he's good.

If I know I have a stud qb, I'd prefer to build my defense, and have my stud qb make the offensive pieces I give him look better than they are. Bc like Saints Tigers stated in the other thread, I think it's easier to be successful that way bc you need more resources on defense to be successful on that side of the field bc you don't have that 1 singular piece that can make everyone around them better like a qb can for offense.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Russell Wilson is doing just fine with Pete Carroll at HC.

Meh. Call me when Russell Wilson wins a Superbowl.

Luck has a defensive HC (technically).

And a guy who is up for head coaching jobs as his OC.

Cam has a defensive head coach. So does Freeman who had a bounceback year. Stafford has a defensive head coach.

I mean, I guess that's a thing.

Sometimes we give too much credit to the offensive coordinator. Sometimes, the qb is gonna suck bc he sucks, and sometimes he's gonna be good regardless of who his OC is bc he's good.

Of course, but you could say that about any position. Quarterback is the only position that will literally make or break a team, so it makes sense to get a guy who knows as much about them as you can.

If I know I have a stud qb

How do you get that?

[WCH]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

How do you get that?

A little bit of good scouting, a sprinkle of coaching, and a whole lot of luck?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by WCH

A little bit of good scouting, a sprinkle of coaching, and a whole lot of luck?

Right. It certainly helps to get a coach then that knows quarterbacks. Unless you're the Colts and you basically cripple yourself into getting an obvious franchise QB.

[bigbluedefense]

I can see where they're coming from. But a good coach is a good coach, regardless of where he came from or what his background is.

I have a feeling a lot of these hires were GMs trying to outsmart everyone and trying to manufacture good coaching with a lot of assumptions.

You'll see a lot of these coaches fizzle out.

[fenikz]

well would you rather have Arians as HC with Horton as DC or Horton as HC with Kirby Smart as OC

it's kind of a no brainer

[bigbluedefense]

That's not a fair comparison. What if I had Horton as HC with Norv Turner at OC?

We're starting to attribute too much into good qb play correlating with successful OCs. It's really the opposite. Good qbs make OCs look good. Not the other way around.


And I love Bruce Arians don't get me wrong. But how much credit should we give a guy for having Ben Roethlisberger who will be a HOF qb, and then Andrew Luck who probably will wind up becoming one? Like really? It wasn't that hard.

Remember when Ken Whistenhunt looked like an offensive genius with Roethlisberger and Warner as his qbs, then looked like a full blown ****** when he didn't have them?

We're giving OCs too much credit for qb success here. Qbs make the OC, not the other way around.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You'll see a lot of these coaches fizzle out.

Of course you will. The vast majority of coaches fizzle out.

The only question is if this is the beginning of a longterm trend, and I think it is.

[fenikz]

Horton lacks the connections/respect to bring in someone like Turner he has to settle for the Kirby Wilson's and Lou Spanos' of the world

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Of course you will. The vast majority of coaches fizzle out.

The only question is if this is the beginning of a longterm trend, and I think it is.

It is the beginning of a long term trend. Absolutely. I just don't necessarily agree with it. I understand it. But I don't agree with it because you're limiting yourself too much with this way of thinking, and missing out on some great candidates just bc they don't come from an offensive background.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by fenikz

Horton lacks the connections/respect to bring in someone like Turner he has to settle for the Kirby Wilson's and Lou Spanos' of the world

And how do you know this? How do you know he doesn't have connections dating back to his pittsburgh days that he can scoop up who would do a great job at OC?

That's pure speculation with no evidence.

[fenikz]

it's what he told Bidwill and Keim why would he lie[/Manti T'eo]

[asdf1223]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

And how do you know this? How do you know he doesn't have connections dating back to his pittsburgh days that he can scoop up who would do a great job at OC?

That's pure speculation with no evidence.

It may not be true but at the same time Fenikz has a point. Two years ago he was just a DB coach for the Steelers. He wasn't even the Cards first choice for D-Coordinator. Last thing you want is Mike Singeltary/Raheem Morris situation where a guy has been a non-coordinator lifer on one side of the ball and you make him run an entire team. You'll end up outsourcing the other side of the ball to people like Jimmy Raye and it ends up being a total disaster.

[SickwithIt1010]

Originally Posted by fenikz

well would you rather have Arians as HC with Horton as DC or Horton as HC with Kirby Smart as OC

it's kind of a no brainer

Kirby Smart would be a horrible NFL OC, hes only been a Defensive Coordinator in college for cryin out loud...askin a lot out of this guy. :-P

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by asdf1223

It may not be true but at the same time Fenikz has a point. Two years ago he was just a DB coach for the Steelers. He wasn't even the Cards first choice for D-Coordinator. Last thing you want is Mike Singeltary/Raheem Morris situation where a guy has been a non-coordinator lifer on one side of the ball and you make him run an entire team. You'll end up outsourcing the other side of the ball to people like Jimmy Raye and it ends up being a total disaster.

I mean...look at some of these hires though. They aren't exactly the pinnacle of offensive innovation themselves.

For every Mike McCarthy theres about 9 Pat Shurmurs.

[asdf1223]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I mean...look at some of these hires though. They aren't exactly the pinnacle of offensive innovation themselves.

For every Mike McCarthy theres about 9 Pat Shurmurs.

I agree and I feel like Mike Zimmer is a good choice for HC and more defensive guys need to get jobs but Horton's way too green. If you interview him and ask him for his offensive philosophy I'm not sure what reply you are going to get. Let him fine tune his D, take a deeper look at his offense, build connections and figure out what he wants as an offensive philosophy.

[Monomach]

Kind of funny how no one wants Lovie.

[SickwithIt1010]

He can come be our DC :)