The Coaching Change Thread - Page 21

Bengalsrocket · 01-08-2012, 11:04 PM

Other Bengals fans will disagree with me I think, but Marvin isn't a bad coach. Yes, he had a bad game this weekend but that was hardly the issue. This team simply wasn't prepared to be in the play offs yet.

Over the course of his tenure here in Cincinnati, Lewis has had some rough luck with talent. We've had several guys drafted from the first 3 rounds get career ending injuries in their rookie years. We've also had way to many high risk / high reward players that never ended up rewarding us in the long run like Odell Thurman and Chris Henry.

He also had a pair of coordinators he didn't really want before Zimmer and Gruden came to town.

Lewis is really good at getting the most out his players. He unfortunately doesn't really have a "core" group of players to build around on this team because every time we get a talented player, Mike Brown lets them walk.

If Dalton & Green on the offensive side and Leon Hall and Carlos Dunlap on the defensive side could somehow turn into the cornerstones of which Lewis builds this team around (starting with the 2 first round picks we have next year) then I think Lewis will have some success in the near future.

Also, if we lose Gruden this quickly I'm going to be so mad. We drafted Dalton with Gruden's offense in mind. It would be absolute horseshit to change coordinators on Andy this quickly.

BeerBaron · 01-08-2012, 11:09 PM

Good offensive coordinators seem to be rare, and when a good one comes along, he's usually swiped to be a head coach somewhere else.

Like I said on the previous page, Lewis has been good for Cincinnati. Anywhere else, his overall record may not hold up, but he's the right man for the job in Cincy.

It's a cheap organization but you know that going in. You'll have to do your best to develop the talent you draft yourself and compliment it with some guys of the scrap heap from time to time.

He built up a good core once with Palmer/Ocho/Housh/Rudi Johnson but Carson's knee injury in the playoffs tanked that group and he never seemed to be the same afterward.

And like you said, he's lost a number of high draft picks to career ending injury. (Pollack, Irons come to mind.)

I don't think, given the current coaching market, you'll find anyone better.

Pat Sims 90 · 01-09-2012, 05:25 AM

At this point Lewis going to have to be let go if Mike Brown wants to make any money next year. The Bengals could not sell out a home game this year because of Lewis. They sold of last game of the year becuase they gave tickets away for free.

Lewis is a good talent evaulater but he can't coach for **** he would be better off in a management postion. With likely Gruden and Zimmer leaving for HC Jobs Lewis will not have any coordinators to make him look good.

Here is one fan pulling for a ****** season or Mike Brown steppin down as owner. So Marvin Lewis is not on the sidelines anymore.

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 07:05 AM

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...uskell-as-g-m/

Not official yet, but sounding likely.

I'd just like to point out I called this when JA was fired but Lovie was kept. Go BeerBaron!

bucfan12 · 01-09-2012, 07:36 AM

I think Bengals fans need to realize that their team wasn't supposed to be a playoff contender.

They're young and now have 2 1st rounders to expand and improve this offseason. They won't have a lockout looming over there heads and will get a full off-season to work.

asdf1223 · 01-09-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...uskell-as-g-m/

Not official yet, but sounding likely.

I'd just like to point out I called this when JA was fired but Lovie was kept. Go BeerBaron!

That might be one of the worst moves of the season. I usually defend Seahawks alumini(Hell even Aaron Curry)but Tim Ruskell is just terrible. Signing receivers to over priced contracts ( Deion Branch, TJ Housh), drafting horribly low ceiling players in the first round, there is very little good Tim Ruskell did in 5 years with Seattle.

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf1223

That might be one of the worst moves of the season. I usually defend Seahawks alumini(Hell even Aaron Curry)but Tim Ruskell is just terrible. Signing receivers to over priced contracts ( Deion Branch, TJ Housh), drafting horribly low ceiling players in the first round, there is very little good Tim Ruskell did in 5 years with Seattle.

It's really a lateral move at best. But no one who would actually make for a good GM would come in and accept Lovie being forced on them at head coach.

If the team fails to make the playoffs again next year, then Lovie, Ruskell and everyone from below the McCaskey's down to but not including Jay Cutler in the chain of command should be fired.

It's a one year "see what happens" move. I keep saying it because I really believe it, had Cutler not gotten hurt, we'd be in the playoffs. He left us at 7-3 and I have to think that with him starting, we would have won at least 3 of those final games to get into the playoffs.

So we'll try again next year, hopefully addressing the o-line, maybe finding a legit WR and getting younger on defense.

WCH · 01-09-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

It's a one year "see what happens" move. I keep saying it because I really believe it, had Cutler not gotten hurt, we'd be in the playoffs. He left us at 7-3 and I have to think that with him starting, we would have won at least 3 of those final games to get into the playoffs.

So we'll try again next year, hopefully addressing the o-line, maybe finding a legit WR and getting younger on defense.

I think you guys were looking like legitimate contenders before Cutler went down. I also think that Lovie doesn't get enough credit. He's taken the Bears to two NFCCGs and a Super Bowl. If Cutler had stayed in the Conference Championship last season, who knows what would have happened.

A lot of teams go decades without that kind of success.

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

I think you guys were looking like legitimate contenders before Cutler went down. I also think that Lovie doesn't get enough credit. He's taken the Bears to two NFCCGs and a Super Bowl. Some teams go decades without that kind of success.

I don't disagree. The players play hard for Lovie and he has the team prepared more often than not. But his biggest flaws have killed this team at times too.

You've almost certainly seen this:

Because Lovie has to be one of the least sensible challengers in the league. The man has literally taken a timeout, thought about challenging, challenged, and lost. That cost us two timeouts and a challenge.

He seems to have two modes of operation in this regard:

1.) "Losing? Just challenge the next play!"

2.) "Questionable game changing play? Better hang onto the flag...just in case...."

Beyond that, he doesn't seem good at making in game adjustments. This was at the absolute worst during the year he called the defenses in addition to being head coach. ('09 I think? Before we promoted Marinelli)

We'd either start off really good and stay strong the whole game, or get toasted repeatedly. It was usually slants and 3rd downs that absolutely killed us that year.

Since Marinelli took over, it's been slightly better. In seemingly every Packer game anymore, they roll right down the field for an early score then we stifle them for a few drives.

But his asinine challenging and inability/unwillingness to make in game adjustments has hurt us a few too many times.

So while he's had more success than most other head coaches can boast in recent years, he's also held the team back at times.

asdf1223 · 01-09-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

It's really a lateral move at best. But no one who would actually make for a good GM would come in and accept Lovie being forced on them at head coach.

If the team fails to make the playoffs again next year, then Lovie, Ruskell and everyone from below the McCaskey's down to but not including Jay Cutler in the chain of command should be fired.

It's a one year "see what happens" move. I keep saying it because I really believe it, had Cutler not gotten hurt, we'd be in the playoffs. He left us at 7-3 and I have to think that with him starting, we would have won at least 3 of those final games to get into the playoffs.

So we'll try again next year, hopefully addressing the o-line, maybe finding a legit WR and getting younger on defense.

I don't agree with that. Jeff Fisher and John Harbaugh are open to being coaches with Jeff Ireland as the GM. The team's going to be a contender as long as Jay Cutler's the QB. Its not a long rebuilding job like so many other teams. Its almost as if they want a lame duck season next year and then reload without Ruskell, Lovie and the entire crew.

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdf1223

I don't agree with that. Jeff Fisher and John Harbaugh are open to being coaches with Jeff Ireland as the GM. The team's going to be a contender as long as Jay Cutler's the QB. Its not a long rebuilding job like so many other teams. Its almost as if they want a lame duck season next year and then reload without Ruskell, Lovie and the entire crew.

Jeff Fisher and Jim Harbaugh also wouldn't/weren't be cheap. And while they don't draw the same cheapness ire as someone like Mike Brown or Bill Bidwell, the McCaskeys are in that next group of owner-cheapness. Someone said before (and I don't have time to confirm it at this moment) but the Bears have never hired a head coach with previous head coaching experiencing. Always promoting younger (cheaper) coordinators to the job.

Additionally, they would be head coaches being hired by the GM, as is normally the situation. Few GMs accept jobs with a head coach already in place. They want to pick their own head coach in the same way that most coaches want to pick their own QB. No one wants to be saddled with someone.

So while I agree that it wouldn't be a bad job, the cheapness/status quo of the current situation is preferred by ownership apparently.

We'll see how the offseason goes. Franchising Forte is a must, and we'll see what happens from there. I'd love to make a run at a big bodied receiver for Cutler and we need more help on the o-line. The core pieces of the defense are also aging (Urlacher, Peppers, Briggs and Tillman are all 30+) so youth is needed there.

H.O.O.D · 01-09-2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010

Mike Nolan set up the foundation for that 9ers team...not Singletary.

Actually it was a combination of Scot McCloughan, Mike Nolan and Trent Baalke who built the foundation. Nolan had GM power through the 07 season, Scot ran the 08/09 offseasons and Baalke since then.

Nolan brought us (though McCloughan had a hand in this) :

Alex Smith
Gore
V.Davis
Walker
Staley
RayMac
Goldson
Justin Smith (via the infamous helicopter ride)
*Clements (and his ridiculous contract)
*Franklin
*A.Bryant
*L.Allen

McCloughan brought us :

Willis
Brown
RJF
Grant
Morgan

Baalke has brought :

Aldon Smith
A.Davis
Iupati
Williams
Bowman
Culliver
Miller
Hunter
Ginn
Rodgers
Whitner
Goodwin
Akers

Da-Phins · 01-09-2012, 10:02 AM

Mike Zimmer will be getting an interview with the Dolphins later this week. If Fishers goes to the Rams, Zimmer would be a good #2 option. Zimmer is ready to be a HC and I think when he eventually becomes one, he will be a pretty damn good one.

bearsfan_51 · 01-09-2012, 10:03 AM

Martyball!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/74...er-sources-say

T-RICH49 · 01-09-2012, 10:06 AM

It's official Chiefs name Romeo Crennel as new HC.Press conferance at 1

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Martyball!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/74...er-sources-say

We were talking about this yesterday. I eagerly await the return of the excessively conservative brand of football Martyball represents.

Splat · 01-09-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T-RICH49

It's official Chiefs name Romeo Crennel as new HC.Press conferance at 1

Do like...

Bengals78 · 01-09-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splat

Do like...

3 year deal too wasnt it?

Splat · 01-09-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bengals78

3 year deal too wasnt it?

Yep.

Romeo Crennel agrees to three-year deal as Chiefs’ head coach

DraftSavant · 01-09-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

We were talking about this yesterday. I eagerly await the return of the excessively conservative brand of football Martyball represents.

Meh, there's a difference between physical, run-based offense and trying to get a 3 point lead and sit on it forever.

ElectricEye · 01-09-2012, 11:03 AM

You know what? Marty wouldn't be a bad hire for the Bucs. It's pretty clear that Martyball isn't going to win them(or anyone else) a Super Bowl, but for a team as out of sorts and lacking discipline as the Buccaneers are, a coach like Marty might be decent for them to be around for a few years while they build up the roster and those guys mature as players. It's not like they'll be going anywhere until that happens anyway.

It's nice to see Romeo get another chance as a head coach. He's a real good defensive coach. Cleveland has proved a tough place for just about anyone to win in, so I can't really fault him for that...even though I'm still not sure he has the chops to cut it as a head guy all the same. Still, for a team like the Chiefs that play in division where the separation between the first place team and the last place team is all of two wins, it might be a good idea to keep some continuity going, especially with impact players like Jamaal Charles and Eric Berry coming back.

BeerBaron · 01-09-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElectricEye

You know what? Marty wouldn't be a bad hire for the Bucs. It's pretty clear that Martyball isn't going to win them(or anyone else) a Super Bowl, but for a team as out of sorts and lacking discipline as the Buccaneers are, a coach like Marty might be decent for them to be around for a few years while they build up the roster and those guys mature as players. It's not like they'll be going anywhere until that happens anyway.

Yeah, that's about the best I think they could hope for. Marty is honestly a guy I've been waiting for a team to hire in a Parcells-with-the-Dolphins kind of role. Or maybe just as a straight up GM.

He is good at building up a respectable team and has done it plenty of times, but it's not a team build for postseason success.

"Sit on a 3 point lead" won't get it done in any era of football, much less this current one with offenses who can put up 40 points like clockwork. But for the Bucs right now, just getting back to the postseason would be a good starting point.

I just can't pass up an opportunity to make fun of Martyball.

DraftSavant · 01-09-2012, 11:15 AM

He's like the Larry Brown of football. He's a great guy to build and develop your roster for the next coach.

As long as that next coach isn't Norv Turner.

Splat · 01-09-2012, 11:15 AM

I have no idea what the Chiefs are going to do at OC. They really need to nail that hire.

A Perfect Score · 01-09-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DraftSavant

He's like the Larry Brown of football. He's a great guy to build and develop your roster for the next coach.

As long as that next coach isn't Norv Turner. And that's happened to him twice now.

How pissed is Marty that he keeps developing extremely talented player cores only to watch them waste away through Norv's idiotic personnel management and complete inability to motivate his team?