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Old 09-18-2011, 09:56 PM    (permalink
TuckNole
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Default Michael Harris, CB, FSU

Someone who is going to fly up draft boards this year is Mike Harris. He is FSU's best CB (better than Xavier Rhodes and Greg Reid), and has played really really well so far this year, starting all 3 games.

Starting safety Lamarcus Joyner has been quoted as saying that Harris is FSU's best DB, period. If you watched the OU game last night, he was all over the field. And supposedly he ran in the 4.3 range in summer testing which was the fastest on the team.

He made a ton of plays last year which you can see on youtube.

As a little background on Harris, he was QB in South Florida coming out of high school but wasn't close on grades so wasn't recruited heavily. Went to JUCO were he shined, became a 4 star prospect, and was supposed to be one of Saban's prized recurits. Grade snags tripped him up and he couldn't enroll in the spring, which Saban requires for Jucos, so he fell in to FSU's lap.

His grades didn't get cleared up until like a week or two before the first game last year so he had very little time to learn the new defense and played nickel all last year. Still he led the team with 4 Ints.

Coming into the year, I had him as a 3-4 round guy, but I'm not so sure he isn't going to go a lot higher. He has been outshining the much more widely known CBs for FSU since the spring.

He is 5'11, 195, with supposed 4.3ish type speed. Good tackler, and unreal instincts.

Scott would do well to put him in the senior rankings.

Last edited by Scott Wright : 09-19-2011 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Misspelled name.
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Old 09-18-2011, 10:43 PM    (permalink
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I do not feel he is better than Xavier Rhodes, he tackles better than most corners though. Very impressive prospect, many will sleep on the kid but he is a stud and could be a fine pro, easily one of the best tackling corners in college right now.
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Old 09-18-2011, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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I don't know. Besides Joyner's quote, Jimbo also said that Harris was probably playing the best of the CBs in the preseason. But it's probably nit picking. Rhodes is more physical and is probably better in man, but Harris is more instinctive and is probably better at zone.

Highlights

And supposedly makes plays like this frequently in practice.

He had 9 tackles last night against OU and was blowing up their screens the whole time.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Your splitting hairs between him and Rhodes, he's been the best this season though. Rhodes has a little more pure shutdown ability due to his freakish size and length. But Mike Harris still has good size for a corner and is a hell of a football player. He'll rise up boards as FSU's defense is very good this year.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Greg Reid is the Seminole corner to watch. Future Top 100 pick.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:05 PM    (permalink
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Greg Reid is the Seminole corner to watch. Future Top 100 pick.
I doubt it, Greg Reid hasn't progressed at all from his freshman year. He gives up big plays routinely and is just way too short to play CB at the next level, see Kenny Stills's TD -- burned Reid on the route and then beat him on a jumpball on an underthrown ball. Reid gives you some special teams value, but even then, he isn't the best returner in the country.
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Old 09-19-2011, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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Greg Reid is the Seminole corner to watch. Future Top 100 pick.
See this leads me to believe Scott hasn't watched, just because he's the bigger name doesn't mean he's the bigger prospect. Reid is a huge risk taker and for every great play he will make a bad one. He got out jumped on the game winning TD vs OU (also after biting on a move and being out of position). Bottom line Reid is 5'8" with mid 4.5 speed who takes a few too many chances.

I think teams will be much more excited about a 6'2" Nmadi clone in Xavier Rhodes or Mike Harris who plays more like a current Charles Woodson with the way he moves around.
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Old 09-20-2011, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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The only reason Reid would even touch the Top 100 is because of his elite athletic ability and return ability. He isn't anywhere near the defensive player that Rhodes or Thomas are. Gives up way too many big plays too constantly.
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Old 09-20-2011, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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Big Bird The only reason Reid would even touch the Top 100 is because of his elite athletic ability and return ability. He isn't anywhere near the defensive player that Rhodes or Thomas are. Gives up way too many big plays too constantly.
I agree, he does give up way too many big plays, he brings a lot to the return game potentially but saying he is a top 100 pick is not saying much, that is what a 2nd or 3rd round pick? No clue how Reid is the one to watch over Xavier Rhodes who is an absolute stud prospect. Reid could improve his stock though just like anyone else with better play....
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Old 09-20-2011, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Harris is our most consistent corner, and our best corner. Xavier Rhodes has been inconsistent, as well as Greg Reid.

Harris could be a first round pick with a great year and good combine.
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Old 09-20-2011, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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I doubt it, Greg Reid hasn't progressed at all from his freshman year. He gives up big plays routinely and is just way too short to play CB at the next level, see Kenny Stills's TD -- burned Reid on the route and then beat him on a jumpball on an underthrown ball. Reid gives you some special teams value, but even then, he isn't the best returner in the country.
No this is incorrect, Reid is playing very very good so far this year. Until his suspension, it was Harris and Reid starting, meaning they had Rhodes coming off the bench. Until the suspension, Reid was the only corner that had his spot locked down.

As far as the play to Kenny Stills, come on. Kenny Stills is an elite WR, maybe top 10 in college football, and every CB bites on pumps every now an then, especially when the QB and WR had successfully run same out that Landry pumped on twice earlier in the game. Lets give credit where its due, Jones and Stills might be the best QB-WR combo other than Jones and Broyles. The rest of the game Greg played phenomenally, really the whole secondary did. Held OU under 200 yards passing and to their lowest play total in over 2 years.

Is Reid an elite prospect? No. His height is a liability. As was proven when got out leaped by Stills. And he doesn't have the freakeshly long arms of a guy like Lamarcus Joyner. But Reid is one of those rare athletes who can overcome his height to become a solid contributor.

Don't judge Reid by what you saw last year. Watch him this year; he is playing well.

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Old 09-20-2011, 10:37 PM    (permalink
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I doubt it, Greg Reid hasn't progressed at all from his freshman year. He gives up big plays routinely and is just way too short to play CB at the next level, see Kenny Stills's TD -- burned Reid on the route and then beat him on a jumpball on an underthrown ball. Reid gives you some special teams value, but even then, he isn't the best returner in the country.
Reid was caught looking at another receiver, Broyles I believe, running the out route underneath, and he was still in position to make a play. Stills just made the play.

And Reid is one of the best return men in the country, easily. Why do you think no one kicks to him at all?
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:12 AM    (permalink
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First and foremost, I'm an FSU fan. And this year as in what, two games against subpar teams and Oklahoma? He didn't look that good against Oklahoma -- certainly not terrible -- but not great. And yes, he is one of the better return men in the country, but not a Devin Hester/Leon Washington/Josh Cribbs type that is truly special in the return game. His height will definitely hinder him at the next level as well.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:33 PM    (permalink
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First and foremost, I'm an FSU fan. And this year as in what, two games against subpar teams and Oklahoma? He didn't look that good against Oklahoma -- certainly not terrible -- but not great. And yes, he is one of the better return men in the country, but not a Devin Hester/Leon Washington/Josh Cribbs type that is truly special in the return game. His height will definitely hinder him at the next level as well.
I think he played very well against OU. Check some of the FSU sites that have done play by play analysis. He was forcing things inside, playing smart, etc. Opposite of Greg Reid last year.
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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I've watched the FSU v OU game about three times now and can say that Greg Reid had one of the worst games of anyone in the entire secondary. I took notes on the game. I'll break down the pass plays against Reid. Everyone knows about the TD he gave up to Stills, and that was his worst play of the game, so I'll get to that first.

- It was a crucial play with 7 minutes left in the 4th QT of a tie game. Reid got caught cheating and anticipated an out pattern to OU WR #2. After Reid covered ground he was in perfect position to break up the late, under thrown pass by Landry Jones. He was right there. It's not like Stills made a great play on the ball either. He stood there and put his hands up. That's literally all he did. It wasn't a play where you just chalk it up to the offensive player for making a great play on the ball. It was a bad play by Reid, not that he was momentarily beat as he had his eyes in the backfield, but because he didn't make a play on the football. His height showed how it's a major factor when assessing his play for the next level. He showed no leaping ability or ball skills on the play at all. He had a good shot at picking it off. It was a 50/50 ball. And if you watch the play, with the way Reid played it, he never had a chance.

- He also gave up a quick screen to Broyles on the first possession of the game, which resulted in a 5 yard gain on 2nd and 7 (if you want to credit it against him). He was in off coverage (about 7 or 8 yards) and in zone. He made a quick tackle.

- Reid gave up a quick slant to Stills for 8 yards on 2nd and 7 where he was in off coverage and made a quick tackle; also on the first possession of the game.

- Reid forced an incomplete pass to Stills with about 1:40 in the 1st QT. He was playing zone and had help from Joyner over the top. Really didn't make a play on the ball or cover his man (he kinda just stood there). I wouldn't call this a positive play. It was a throw that could have been completed and Stills also fell down coming out of his route. It was Landry's first incomplete pass of the game.

- There was a check down throw that was altered by good pressure. Reid was in position to make a quick stop as he was playing zone (pretty much what he did all night long). The FB "heard footsteps" and dropped the pass.

- Reid had good coverage down in the goal line area on a 1st and goal play where OU attempted a play action fake and tried to hit the FB out of the backfield. He was in perfect position and Jones just thew it away. He also had good coverage on the third down play that also forced a throw away by Jones. Series resulted in a FG just before the half.

- Just before the end of the 3rd QT Reid gave up a quick slant to Kenny Stills. Reid missed the tackle and Stills got good YAC. It resulted in a 17 yard gain (on a 7 yard pass play). Reid was in off coverage and didn't show good burst or explosion on the play to come up and make a quick stop. It was a good route by Stills, but a very poor attempt at a tackle by Reid.

- On 2nd and 2 with seconds left in the 3rd QT Reid was aggressive on a quick bubble screen to a RB. He blew the play up and disrupted the blocking pattern of 2 WRs. He was about four yards deep into the backfield and the play resulted in no gain. He missed the tackle since he didn't have the angle, but did make a good play disrupting the design of the offense. Then there was the aforementioned TD reception.

Overall, I was unimpressed with Reid. It was rather obvious he was the worst CB on that day.



- Lamarcus Joyner had the best game of any FSU defensive back. He had all the impact plays for the defense. He made a good hit on Landry Jones after a delayed blitz where he was playing nickel. He jammed Broyles off the LOS and then hit Jones, causing the ball to float up in the air where it was intercepted.

- Joyner also put the big hit on Stills in the 2nd QT that knocked him out of the game for a short period of time. Rhodes was beat on a double move and he came over the top and put an elbow on his helmet. Stills made a great catch between the closing Joyner and Rhodes. It looked like he came from the middle of the field (or maybe even the other side of the field) and read Landry Jones' eyes (who stared Stills down the entire time -- something he did all game long).

- Joyner's biggest play of the game came with about 4:20 in the 3rd QT. He got an INT off Landry Jones. He was safety help for Rhodes. Stills ran an out and up, which wasn't a very good route (probably because it was covered so well and wasn't expecting a throw from Jones ... Broyles also ran a horrible route underneath where he pretty much walked), and Joyner read it all the way. He ended up running the route better than Stills and made an easy INT. It was an atrocious throw into double coverage. He showed good speed for a CB and looked faster than Rhodes on the play.

- Had man coverage against Broyles while playing over 10 yards off the LOS. Gave up an out pattern, but closed well and read the route well. Almost broke up a poorly thrown ball by Landry Jones (behind the receiver, forcing Broyles to reach behind him to catch the ball). Joyner made an immeidate tackle and nearly broke up the pass with just over 8 minutes left in the 4th QT. It was an 11 yard completion on 1st and 10.


Joyner looked really good. Has CB skills, long arms and made the biggest plays of the game. From this game alone, I would think he was the second best prospect on FSU's secondary.


Michael Harris did look like the best NFL prospect. He was not on the field nearly enough as Reid or Rhodes, but he was usually in press man coverage and blanketing whoever it was that he was covering. He broke up a pass on a quick slant to Stills and made a great TFL on a bubble screen to Ryan Broyles where he showed great anticipation, recognition skills and a terrific burst. Harris simply has the best physical skills of any of the CBs on the team. He's the most fluid athlete with the best footwork.
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Old 09-23-2011, 11:12 PM    (permalink
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Lamarcus Joyner as the best prospect? He is 5'9 and 190lbs (his listed weight isn't close to being true).

He is a phenomenal college safety at this point, but he will have some serious physical limitations to overcome.

Rhodes is clearly the #1 prospect due to his athletic gifts with Mike Harris close behind.
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Old 09-24-2011, 02:03 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TuckNole View Post
Lamarcus Joyner as the best prospect? He is 5'9 and 190lbs (his listed weight isn't close to being true).

He is a phenomenal college safety at this point, but he will have some serious physical limitations to overcome.

Rhodes is clearly the #1 prospect due to his athletic gifts with Mike Harris close behind.
No, I said Mike Harris is the best prospect from that defense ... from the very little I have seen of all the players included. The closest thing I said about Joyner as a prospect was:

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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
From this game alone, I would think he was the second best prospect on FSU's secondary.
Which is a very isolated situation. Having no idea about height, weight speed, other games, ect.

I'd say Harris is the best with Rhodes right behind him. I think Rhodes' speed is a major question mark and he's a little tight in the hips and doesn't have great quickness. His jam and physicality at the LOS may allow him to overcome that, but quickness is something that can get a CB exposed, moreso than speed. On two deep passes Rhodes was trailing quite a bit and not looking very fast. There's very few players that I really ever care about their 40 times, but Rhodes would be one of them. I didn't care about Brandon Flowers 40 or Joe Haden's ... their college tape was too good and they didn't ever get beat deep due to speed.


I said Joyner had the best game. That's it. I don't know what kind of prospect he is. I also think the NFL will be changing to smaller safeties with better coverage skills since it has become so pass heavy, which is why I had no problem keeping Earl Thomas in my Top 10 overall a few years ago.
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Last edited by BigBanger : 09-24-2011 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 09-24-2011, 01:35 PM    (permalink
BuddyCHRIST
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Originally Posted by TuckNole View Post
Lamarcus Joyner as the best prospect? He is 5'9 and 190lbs (his listed weight isn't close to being true).

He is a phenomenal college safety at this point, but he will have some serious physical limitations to overcome.

Rhodes is clearly the #1 prospect due to his athletic gifts with Mike Harris close behind.
Joyner is definitely a solid 200lbs, he lives in my apartment complex and doesn't even look like the same person from HS. He is thick as sht now.

And I don't know what the other guy is talking about Rhodes getting beat deep, he never gets beat deep. I don't know about his speed just because its hard to tell because no one ever gets behind him. His tape is better than Haden's or Flower's as sophomores. He ran in the 4.3's at FSU so he's probably fast enough even if that time doesn't hold.
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:22 AM    (permalink
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Mike Harris will be a damn steal for anybody. so fundamentally sound and smart.....Nobody talks about him, but they should

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