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Old 12-05-2011, 12:43 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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I think DeCastro is overrated. ...and taking a Guard that early is ridiculous.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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I think DeCastro is overrated. ...and taking a Guard that early is ridiculous.
In the 2010 draft Iupati was the 3rd OL taken (Pouncey was the 4th), they went a reasonably appropriate 17th (and 18th). Whether or not DeCastro is the second OL taken sort of depends on how people view the rest of the OL prospects other than Kalil, not on how high he's taken.

For all we know, DeCastro could be the 2nd OL taken... and he goes 25th overall.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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In the 2010 draft Iupati was the 3rd OL taken (Pouncey was the 4th), they went a reasonably appropriate 17th (and 18th). Whether or not DeCastro is the second OL taken sort of depends on how people view the rest of the OL prospects other than Kalil, not on how high he's taken.

For all we know, DeCastro could be the 2nd OL taken... and he goes 25th overall.
I'm talking about those putting him in the Top 10-15.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:06 PM    (permalink
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I think DeCastro is overrated. ...and taking a Guard that early is ridiculous.
With previous drafts having no rookie wage scale it would have been obvious that OGs wouldn't get chosen highly because no team would want to make a rookie OG the highest paid at his position without having played a game. However with that gone I definitely think more OGs will be drafted higher in the first few rounds. Sure, if there are legitimate prospects above them then they won't but this year is not a draft that I see multiple sure fire, elite type prospects.

As for DeCastro as a player;

He is unbelievable at blocking in space and on the second level. His ability to pull in the run game and hit people on the move is phenomenal. He also has the ability to stone DTs in the passing game. He absolutely handled Ta'amu of Washington one on one multiple times.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm talking about those putting him in the Top 10-15.
Oh, I definitely agree that he shouldn't go that high, but as to the premise of the thread (will DeCastro be the 2nd OL taken?) it's entirely possible. You never know who's going to fail a drug test at the combine, test poorly, interview poorly, suffer a significant injury in a bowl game (inc. Senior), have the combine physical reveal a degenerative joint condition/cancer, etc.

This isn't an especially strong OL class as far as high firsts are concerned, IMO, and I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Adams and Martin fall behind DeCastro in the pre-draft process.

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Old 12-05-2011, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm talking about those putting him in the Top 10-15.
when it comes to ranking the prospects without factoring "positional value" DeCastro is easily one of the top 10 players in this draft
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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when it comes to ranking the prospects without factoring "positional value" DeCastro is easily one of the top 10 players in this draft
I'm not sure how you entirely divorce "prospect quality" from "positional value."

Shouldn't you view prospects from the position of "how much can they improve your football team, in terms of concrete metrics (like wins, points)" and in light of that more valuable positions should be ranked higher?
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure how you entirely divorce "prospect quality" from "positional value."

Shouldn't you view prospects from the position of "how much can they improve your football team, in terms of concrete metrics (like wins, points)" and in light of that more valuable positions should be ranked higher?
I agree that positions like quarterback and pass rusher hold more weight and that should be taken into consideration but after those two positions I view them moreso on talent because of the variety of schemes/fits.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure how you entirely divorce "prospect quality" from "positional value."

Shouldn't you view prospects from the position of "how much can they improve your football team, in terms of concrete metrics (like wins, points)" and in light of that more valuable positions should be ranked higher?
Say though you're a team picking in the 8-12 range and you have needs at WR and CB. In the top 7 you have Luck, Barkley, Kalil, Claiborne, Kirkpatrick, Blackmon, Floyd and Griffin in no particular order.

You explored trade up possibilities but none suited.

If your next need is at OG do you not take DeCastro because of positional value?

Going by my own board the next best would include DeCastro, Richardson, Burfict, Keuchly, Te'o etc but LB offers a similar positional value to OG and if anything RB offers less.

You could of course opt for someone like Janoris Jenkins or Alshon Jeffrey to fill your biggest need. However both players come with far more risk in the top ten than DeCastro.

Otherwise you are left with players like Martin, Reiff etc. But if you are set at LT is RT more valuable than OG?

The X Factor I suppose would be Trent Richardson as he would be clearly BPA. But if I had no need at RB then I would probably take DeCastro that high but that's just my opinion
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I'm not sure how you entirely divorce "prospect quality" from "positional value."

Shouldn't you view prospects from the position of "how much can they improve your football team, in terms of concrete metrics (like wins, points)" and in light of that more valuable positions should be ranked higher?
When you can figure this metric out, let me know. Like princfielder said, after you get past QB and pass rusher have a clear-cut higher value than other positions. But after that?

If I have Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca on my team, I'm pretty sure it makes my team a lot better. And I don't really care where I got him at.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Just wondering if you ever saw John Hannah play, I did in college and as a pro and he was the most dominating inside player I ever saw. He consistently, in college, drove DT's back 5 or 6 steps and I never saw any college DT get the best of him. As a pro, most DT's were completely dominated by him although not quite as obvious as in college.
I closely watched DeCastro's play against Oregon and I must have missed his total dominance of the Oregon DT's, it looked more like he barely held his own.
I'm not saying he isn't a great prospect for an OG but I just don't see the Hannah comparison at all. I guess we'll know on draft day just how much the pro scouts and GM' think of him as a prospect, but I don't expect to hear his name called before the 11-20 group.
I guess we have to compare our AARP cards because my guess is i'm older than you are. I was a season ticket holder from 1970-1977 for the Pats so i guess that would answer the initial question.

I think DeCastro's strength besides great leadership and work ethic would be his ability to pull for the run game, probably a throwback to the Fuzzy Thurston days. (while we're tripping down memory lane)

I think what made Hannah unique is he was coming out of college at around 270 when tackles in the NFL were weighing 260. DeCastro isnt going to have that physical advantage at the next level but i like him as well as anyone since Steve Hutchinson.

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Old 12-05-2011, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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when it comes to ranking the prospects without factoring "positional value" DeCastro is easily one of the top 10 players in this draft
If you're picking in the Top 10 your team sucks for a reason... and has no business drafting a Guard.
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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When you can figure this metric out, let me know. Like princfielder said, after you get past QB and pass rusher have a clear-cut higher value than other positions. But after that?

If I have Steve Hutchinson or Alan Faneca on my team, I'm pretty sure it makes my team a lot better. And I don't really care where I got him at.
Drafting is always a matter of guesswork, but I'm pretty sure that teams think more in terms of "we want to improve our passing offense, so we need to protect better" rather than "I want to acquire one of the best guards in the league."
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I guess we have to compare our AARP cards because my guess is i'm older than you are. I was a season ticket holder from 1970-1977 for the Pats so i guess that would answer the initial question.

I think DeCastro's strength besides great leadership and work ethic would be his ability to pull for the run game, probably a throwback to the Fuzzy Thurston days. (while we're tripping down memory lane)

I think what made Hannah unique is he was coming out of college at around 270 when tackles in the NFL were weighing 260. DeCastro isnt going to have that physical advantage at the next level but i like him as well as anyone since Steve Hutchinson.
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