Who should play LSU in the title game now? - Page 6

Dagagad · 12-05-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHL6719

No, I've watched Bama win too many national championships with a power running game and a game manager at quarterback. I've watched them do it against the best offenses college football had to offer.

The last two national championships Bama has won (2009 and 1992) the quarterback didn't pass for over 50 yards in either. Dominant defense and dominant running game stole the show, and brought home the hardware.

LOL. You'd pick Alabama's 2011 offense over Oregon's. That is some fine homerism.

LSU and Alabama have multiple NFL dlinemen on their rosters. If I had to pick between that and their style of offenses....I think I pick the talent.

The best way to win in college football is by overwhelming talent, especially on Dline (the hardest to recruit) and oline. In the NFL where the talent dispersal is much much more equal, funnily enough, the best teams spread it out and pass. They aren't power running and game managing just because in some fantasy world that equals winning.

wogitalia · 12-05-2011, 07:49 PM

So the Okie St supporters are basically relying on the BCS rankings to try and argue that the team they think prove the BCS rankings don't work should be in the NC.

So you think the rankings are wrong yet they are the strongest support for Okie St in the NC?

No one else finds that to be a rather weak arguement? Just to be clear I wouldn't care if Okie St was in the NC, probably would rather watch them because it would give me someone I want to support in the NC, but really the only case that Okie St has is that they haven't got a chance to play LSU, nothing else really supports them being there or at least outweighs Alabama's case.

I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

Dagagad · 12-05-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia;

I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

I'd agree in general but last year was different. Both auburn and Oregon were offensive teams that stalled in the championship game. The long lay off hurt both of them. Auburn weren't the typical sec national champs.

soybean · 12-05-2011, 09:10 PM

Ok I didnt read this thread so I don't know if it has been said already but...

the reason this isn't fair is because... Alabama gets two chances to beat LSU to win the championship while LSU is only allowed 1?

yodapoop · 12-05-2011, 09:50 PM

ALL OF THIS IS ******* BULL ****! A. Oklahoma State should get their chance. Bama had their shot. They lost! B. BLOW THIS **** UP DOG! This is just another year where this system just does not work. I mean Saban has a vote, he put OK State at 4, Bama at 2. He helped his own damn team get in there. We had people in the Harris Poll put OK State at 6. NUMBER ******* 6 IN THE COUNTRY! Thats ******* ludacris. I know OK State had their chance and lost to Iowa State, but c'mon having a Bama-LSU Ship is like having a Bears-Packers Super Bowl. It just ain't right. Also, as soybean pointed out what if Bama wins? LSU won once already, then Bama wins? 1-1. A world series is not called after two games. Plus, finally, the BCS always ***** the little guy. Boise State never has a chance and thats not fair! I mean Virginia Tech in the BCS. THAT ******* REDICULOUS. **** THE BCS AND GOOD ******* DAY! And in honor of Oklahoma St......

TheRubberDuck45 · 12-05-2011, 10:08 PM

If you are going to complain about the BCS, for the love of God, don't use the BCS rankings in your argument on why OK State is better than Alabama.

JoeJoeBrown · 12-05-2011, 10:31 PM

Defense in the Big12 is absolutely terrible. Texas is the only school ranked in the top 50.

That means the Okie State offense has been playing against the sisters of the poor wrt

Okie State has a terrible defense at 107.

In all likelihood they would be torn up by LSU and Bama. They would score against them, but nowhere near as much as LSU and Bama would score against them.

Stanford will likely beat them soundly.

As a fan, I already saw Bama lose at home to LSU. I don't want to see them lose again. We know that they aren't as good as LSU. Give another team a shot.

This is not a real championship, it's an exhibition game. That is my reasoning behind wanting a non-Bama team. None of these 1 loss teams has earned it fully. There simply isn't enough of a matrix of games across conferences to make a rational decision on this. That's why a playoff is key if we are going to have a true number one team.

yodapoop · 12-05-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBrown

As a fan, I already saw Bama lose at home to LSU. I don't want to see them lose again. We know that they aren't as good as LSU. Give another team a shot.

And this is basically what I was saying. I just like to rant and curse cuz its more fun.

Complex · 12-05-2011, 11:05 PM

What is Ok. St. Strength of Schedule rank? I think someone posted on this site but can't find probably missed it. Anyways VT SOS is 17th so it better be like top 10 or something because their(VT) schedule was weak.

JRTPlaya21 · 12-05-2011, 11:06 PM

I believe OSU had a SOS of 7.

Complex · 12-05-2011, 11:10 PM

Eighth, I just googled it, close enough though. College football was weak this year or I never paid attention to the SOS.

JoeJoeBrown · 12-05-2011, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Complex

Eighth, I just googled it, close enough though. College football was weak this year or I never paid attention to the SOS.

Just based on watching games, but CFB was the weakest it's been since the 2007 season.

JRTPlaya21 · 12-05-2011, 11:21 PM

I found it to be one of the more exciting seasons though. You can never script upsets and close games out of teams you wouldn't expect. It's a shame that the BCS continues to ruin a popular sport but one day they will have a system that nobody can argue about.....I hope.

JoeJoeBrown · 12-05-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

I found it to be one of the more exciting seasons though. You can never script upsets and close games out of teams you wouldn't expect. It's a shame that the BCS continues to ruin a popular sport but one day they will have a system that nobody can argue about.....I hope.

I didn't find it that exciting, because there wasn't a huge amount of drama for the number one or number two teams all season. As a Bama fan, there probably was plenty of excitment, as they were fretting up to the end, but for the rest of us, ESPN and CBS have been blatantly selling the rematch since the early part of the season. The hype saturation was achieved very early on.

Then, again, as an Ohio State fan, I am probably just jaded since the rest of CFB was enjoying a year of butt-raping of OSU over Tatgate and in addition the team sucked arse on the field.

With the OSU, Miami, and PSU scandals and now Syracuse basketball, I'm pretty much fed up with college sports until the whole shebang is cleaned up.

Pro football uses the players that went through this terrible system and the league is a hell of a lot cleaner than a sport full of kids that are in the early stages of becoming men.

It's sad that the pros are cleaner than college.

Have some sort of amateur/pro payment system (like the Olympics, players paid from sources outside of official school organizations, be they boosters, agents, or sports apparel companies, etc...), introduce a playoff, eliminate oversigning. Clean it up and professionalize it. Too many shady characters are involved in the sport now and the system encourages that shadiness.

JRTPlaya21 · 12-05-2011, 11:51 PM

Perfectly summed up my friend. ESPN has basically ruined sports when you think about it. I long for those days of the 90's where they just reported what was going on. Oh well at least I have the luxuries of college hoops to fall back on.

yodapoop · 12-06-2011, 01:20 AM

Yeah, I am right with u 2 on ESPN and CBS. Quickly with CBS, they are in cahoots with the SEC obviously, so 5 years ago when it was Ohio State the clear #1, then #2 was between Michigan and Florida. The second half of the SEC championship was turned into a put Florida in thing. I know they ended up right and all, but that was rediculous, What got me really furious was that the reason Danielson said was that Michigan didn't win its conference. But this year....it was two SEC schools and it was clear according to them it should be Bama and LSU even tho Bama didn't win their conference.

And yeah ESPN, they are driving this bull crap re-allignment that nearly had a team in Texas playing in the Big East and may have a team from Idaho in the Big East. But the BE and ACC are apparently inferior but everything is inferior next to the SEC.

Lastly, it prolly appears I hate the SEC and that I am one of these SEC haters out there. I am not, the SEC is my favorite conference outside of the Big Ten to watch. I don't deny that the SEC is the best conference. But I think another team should get a chance to prove their conference good in the NC. We've seen the SEC, LSU is the best they have. Lets see them against another team that won their conference, so yeah since Stanford didn't win, that would mean Oklahoma State.

JHL6719 · 12-06-2011, 07:39 AM

The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?

On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

Smooth Criminal · 12-06-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia

So the Okie St supporters are basically relying on the BCS rankings to try and argue that the team they think prove the BCS rankings don't work should be in the NC.

So you think the rankings are wrong yet they are the strongest support for Okie St in the NC?

No one else finds that to be a rather weak arguement? Just to be clear I wouldn't care if Okie St was in the NC, probably would rather watch them because it would give me someone I want to support in the NC, but really the only case that Okie St has is that they haven't got a chance to play LSU, nothing else really supports them being there or at least outweighs Alabama's case.

I also don't think it would be overly close. LSU are a better defensive team than Auburn last year and Oregon were a far better team than Okie St and that game really wasn't very close. The SEC is just a better conference that plays a higher standard of football and it's possibly my least favourite conference but if you can't see that they are better you are watching a different reality to me.

Ive tried saying that so many times, most people don't seem to get it though.

They use the rankings to argue that OkSt has played a stronger schedule, then argue that the rankings and system are broken and need fixed.

JHL6719 · 12-06-2011, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

Ive tried saying that so many times, most people don't seem to get it though.

They use the rankings to argue that OkSt has played a stronger schedule, then argue that the rankings and system are broken and need fixed.

Exactly. Listen, I understand the argument that some people would simply rather see the Okie St. vs. LSU matchup for the simple fact that it isn't a rematch. I get that. But it doesn't change the reality of who the two best teams in the country are.

I realize that we'd all love a perfect system that is above reproach and delivers a champion every year with not so much as a slither of daylight left for debate, and makes everyone happy. But the fact is, the system that's currently in place is designed to get the two best teams in the country matched up in the BCS championship game. It doesn't matter if they'd already played or not. It doesn't matter if they're both in the same conference.

Change the system. Change the process. Do whatever it takes.

But the fact is, it'll have to be changed after Bama and LSU have played each other again for all the marbles.

The SEC tried to avoid this very scenario by proposing a +1 playoff, the Big-12 wanted no part of it. These two teams are playing again because it's the system the Big-12 wanted to play by.

Oklahoma St. has almost no argument whatsover to be playing in the national championship game this year, and I'm not even sure which argument against them is even the best. There's several great one's to choose from. Pick one.

jth1331 · 12-06-2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHL6719

The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?

On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

Give me a freakin break, those are some decent OOC opponents.
Connecticut was in the Fiesta Bowl last year.
Arkansas, Florida State which was once ranked #5, Tulsa who's a solid school, TCU, Arizona/Arizona State usually have decent squads, Miami, Georgia Tech, BYU, Iowa.
Its not like they scheduled all cupcakes. Both conferences had solid OOC opponents. Its just difficult at times because one year a school could be great, for instance Utah, and a team schedules them for 3-4 years down the line, and then by that time they are a 6-6/8-4 unranked team. Heck OU had Alabama when they sucked, Texas had Arkansas when they sucked. I believe OU has Ohio State in the future, but who knows how they will be when they finally play.

Iamcanadian · 12-06-2011, 10:53 PM

What worries me more, is that the BCS will use this mess to separate itself from the other BCS Bowls excluding the National Championship game. They will let the Sugar, Orange, Fiesta and Rose Bowl pick their own teams which is defacto what they do today anyways except they are limited to 2 teams from 1 conference. This will allow the conferences to have 3 or more teams named to these Bowl games making a playoff system even further away and solve their problem, with expanded conferences needing more spots for their teams, otherwise why have super conferences if the total # of teams eligible still remains at 2.
The BCS is trying to sell this concept as a better solution for college football but all I see is a round about way to add more conference teams to the major Bowl games so that conference expansion can be justified.
I'm hoping this can of worms causes such an uproar that a real playoff system will be forthcoming and a real national championship will be decided on the field of play and not by an absurd vote.

wogitalia · 12-07-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Connecticut was in the Fiesta Bowl last year.

I'm not sure a playoff really helps, where do you draw the line without basically reducing the regular season to just being regular.

The best thing about college football is that every single game matters and a playoff only diminishes that.

Take this year, where would you draw the line? Top 8 teams? Top 16? I mean no matter where you draw the line you are going to have these problems. Take the Pac12(still sounds stupid) they have 3 top 16 teams but a large part of that is because the rest of the conference is just ridiculously bad so those 3 teams only lose to each other and with the cupcake OOC scheduling by most teams these days that means you have 3 teams that are basically going to be 1 or 2 loss teams.

Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

gpngc · 12-07-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia

I'm not sure a playoff really helps, where do you draw the line without basically reducing the regular season to just being regular.

The best thing about college football is that every single game matters and a playoff only diminishes that.

Take this year, where would you draw the line? Top 8 teams? Top 16? I mean no matter where you draw the line you are going to have these problems. Take the Pac12(still sounds stupid) they have 3 top 16 teams but a large part of that is because the rest of the conference is just ridiculously bad so those 3 teams only lose to each other and with the cupcake OOC scheduling by most teams these days that means you have 3 teams that are basically going to be 1 or 2 loss teams.

Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

If the 49ers beat the Ravens in the Super Bowl, they are the Super Bowl Champs.

JoeJoeBrown · 12-07-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wogitalia

Then you look at the SEC where you probably have 4-5 teams each year that could win the Pac12 but the 4-5th best of those are probably 4 or 5 loss teams with no real chance of making a playoff even though they may be better teams.

Don't get me wrong, I think a playoff would be better, mostly because I don't believe that teams with 3 losses really deserve to argue like 1 loss teams, but no matter what point you cut it off someone with a chance misses the cut.

There just isn't a perfect system unfortunately.

**** is really going to hit the fan when Bama wins the rematch though, that is going to be fun even the SEC will turn on itself probably.

You are smoking some serious crack if you think 4-5 sec teams could win the Pac12 every year. It's hard to take you seriously after reading that ridiculous statement. The SEC East champ lost to freaking Boise State at home this season.

You need to recalibrate your fitbawl meter.

At the national level, I am not a fan of no defense football, so I understand the lack of Pac-12 respect, but that is just silly.

Statements like yours are why there needs to be a playoff, maybe or maybe not one that takes winners of conferences, but one that is at least 8 strong, preferably 16.

Every other division of college football does this, so I don't see why it's a big deal wrt a time commitment. D3 has a 32 team playoff. D2 is 24. FCS is 20.

Those schools play a few less regular season games, but you just have to go back to an 11 game schedule and all is good.

descendency · 12-07-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHL6719

The False Perception of Big 12 greatness:

OSU OOC Opponents:
Unranked La-Lafayette (8-4 Sun Belt, losses include Arizona - see below - , West Ky, Arky State)
Unranked Arizona (4-8 PAC-12)
Unranked Tulsa (8-4 CUSA, losses to ranked teams only, no wins over ranked teams)

KSU OOC Opponents:
FCS Eastern Ky (7-5, KSU won by 3)
Unranked Kent State (5-7 MAC)
Unranked Miami (6-6 ACC)

Baylor OOC Opponents:
#16 TCU (10-2, MWC - won conf)
FCS Stephen F Austin (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)

Oklahoma OOC Opponents:
Unranked Tulsa (See above)
#25 FSU (8-4 ACC)
Unranked Ball State (6-6 MAC)

Missouri OOC Opponents:
Unranked Miami, OH (4-8 MAC)
LOST - Unranked Arizona State (6-6 PAC-12)
FCS Western Illinois (2-9 MVC)

Texas OOC Opponents:
Unranked Rice (4-8 CUSA)
Unranked BYU (9-3 Ind, 1 win over a team with a winning record)
Unranked UCLA (6-7 PAC-12)

Texas A&M OOC Opponents:
Unranked Southern Methodist (7-5 CUSA)
Unranked Idaho (2-10 WAC)
LOSS - #7 Arkansas (10-2 SEC)

Iowa State OOC Opponents:
FCS Northern Iowa (10-2, MVC)
Unranked Iowa (7-5, Big 10)
Unranked Connecticut (6-7 Big East)

Texas Tech OOC Opponents:
FCS Texas State (6-6 1AA Ind)
Unranked New Mexico (1-11 MWC)
Unranked Nevasa (7-5 WAC)

Kansas OOC Opponents:
FCS McNeese State (6-5 Southland)
Unranked Northern Illinois (10-3 MAC, 3 wins over teams with a winning record)
LOSS - Unranked Georgia Tech (8-4 ACC)

That's 2 wins over ranked teams, and only 1 win over a BCS school with a winning record.

How exactly is it decided that the Big 12 is *great* this year when they didn't play anybody?

On a side note, the SEC played 7 ranked opponents this year, going 4-3 against them. LSU beat as many ranked OOC opponents as the entire Big 12.

Alabama played as many or more ranked OOC opponents than any school in the Big 12 - they played more than OSU.

On another side note - All of OSU's wins over ranked foes came at home. They have no decent road victory. Alabama traveled to Happy Valley.

If you think that's bad, look at the Big 10 2 years ago (or was it 3?)