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Old 12-06-2011, 10:00 AM    (permalink
TheMatriculator
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Default The case for firing Haley

It seems strange to talk about firing a coach who took the team to the playoffs last year but let’s look at it from Scott Pioli’s perspective.
• 2009 – I hire Todd Haley as Head Coach and keep Chan Gailey as Offensive Coordinator. Todd runs Chan off and decides to call his own plays. The offense stinks.
• 2010 – I hire Charlie Weis as OC and pay him a lot of money. The offense prospers, Matt Cassel really looks better and the Chiefs go to the playoffs. Todd runs Charlie off (if you believe the BS about wanting to coach his son, I have a bridge to sell you).
• 2011 – I can’t find an OC who will work with Todd so we promote Bill Muir to OC. Bill has experience as an OC (under Gruden at Tampa) but no experience as a play-caller. Todd makes him the play-caller. The offense stinks.
• Still 2011 – This Palko kid that Todd wanted (they were together at Arizona) really stinks. I sign Kyle Orton. Todd uses him on a trick play and he gets hurt, back to Palko. You know Jared Gaither looked pretty good last night with the Chargers.
• I think I have found the problem with the Chiefs’ offense. Todd, would you come here, we need to talk.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I like Haley, a lot, but I really believe that it's time to clean house. Pioli should stay, but I'd get rid of every coach we have.

MAYBE keep RAC, maybe, but we've been blown out a lot this year and you can't put all the blame on the offense.

queue nepg saying that's exactly what you can do in 3.. 2..
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:54 PM    (permalink
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At any level of fandom, Haley is hated. The epic collapse in a mere off-season has to be grounds for dismissal.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
I like Haley, a lot, but I really believe that it's time to clean house. Pioli should stay, but I'd get rid of every coach we have.

MAYBE keep RAC, maybe, but we've been blown out a lot this year and you can't put all the blame on the offense.

queue nepg saying that's exactly what you can do in 3.. 2..
Lol. Actually I was expecting npeg to be the first response.

I could see Pioli promote RAC to head coach if he wants it (he's 64), but they must get an OC.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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At any level of fandom, Haley is hated. The epic collapse in a mere off-season has to be grounds for dismissal.
You know I think a lot of us had limited expectations this year just given the more difficult schedule. No one expected this.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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I love RAC but I would absolutely HATE IT if he were named HC of this club. Hate it hate it hate it.

They should all be let go and we should hire a coach who is a proven winner at this level. Brian Billick worked well with a GM for years, and he knows how to coach a program. The Chin too maybe? Jon Gruden, even though I don't like him? Hell, how about Jeff Fisher? He is awesome.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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You know I think a lot of us had limited expectations this year just given the more difficult schedule. No one expected this.
Yes, the schedule made it clear it would be a different season, but I agree. It's an indictment of Haley, for sure.


As for Fisher . . . I honestly don't understand why he is already fielding calls. The guy has a reputation far greater than his results warrant.


Please don't take Chucky. He's the only announcer I don't ******* curse the **** out of on a weekly basis.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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I can't stand Jon Gruden in the booth. I ******* hate him and Jaws. I watch most of those games muted because of them.

As for the season, yeah. I thought we'd go 7-9 at best and 4-12 at worst. We'll probably end up somewhere in between, and for the schedule and injuries we've had, I'll take it.

This draft is an absolute waste if we don't come out of it with a franchise signal caller though. I'd give whatever they wanted to move up to secure Luck, Barkley or RG3. I wouldn't even think twice about it either.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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There is no way in hell RAC should be let go, even in most of the blowouts the D played great they just get tired from being on the field after a million 3 and outs by the O.

That said I'm fine with everyone else being shown the door.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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If Haley is fired, RAC is gone. Very rarely do you see a HC let go but a DC stick around.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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If Haley is fired, RAC is gone. Very rarely do you see a HC let go but a DC stick around.
I'm not sure that will be case this time. Most DCs are tied to the HC but RAC is more closely tied to Pioli than Haley and Pioli isn't going anywhere. I'm not sure that RAC has any ties to Haley before he came to KC.

It should be interesting. Pioli, Haley, RAC & Weis all have one thing in common...Parcells. It looks like there will be a number of Parcells guys available.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Then not only are they going to have to find a coach that believes in what Pioli and Clark Hunt are selling, but they're going to have to find one who will take the job with a defensive coaching staff already in place.

It just gets harder and harder.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I want to give Haley another go.

2009: He rebuilt the mentality of the team with the players that were tough enough to make it. Yeah, he fired Chan and the offense was bad for most of the season, but it looked a lot better later in the season once Haley figured out the personnel. The main issue was the terrible interior OL, Chris Chambers as the #1 receiver, and flat-out zero talent in the front seven or playmaker positions until Jamaal Charles busted out. Good season for Haley.

2010: Massive strides. Easily could have gone 13-3 with a team that still had a lot of holes had 3rd down playcalling been even slightly better early in the season. Great season for Haley.

2011: No off-season hit the team HARD. Unconventional focus in the short preseason doomed the team early and the injuries caught up to them later on (injuries had nothing to do with the first two games). This is the only season where things didn't go well for Haley. He made some bad calls with the playcaller situation, the way he ran his off-season, and the personnel choices he's made throughout the season.

They're not going to clean house. That's not Pioli's style. They've built a strong base and have a lot of talent. It's tough to imagine the team dumping Haley. If they do, they'll bring in someone who can pick up right where he left off without a huge transition period.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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Stop using no off-season as an excuse. NO TEAM had an off-season. Sorry, you don't get a pass when you don't prepare your team correctly. Yeah, he tried something different and it bit him in the ass.. well, he should be held accountable for it.

And to be honest, this whole playcalling situation is utter ******** and that is all on Haley too. If you want to call your own plays, ******* DO IT, and stop this **** with a new OC every year. Don't let Muir call plays, don't let Zorn call plays, do it your ******* self or clean house and get a group who can do it.

I'm tired of these god damn excuses. We shouldn't have lost the first Charger game, or the Miami game, or the Dolphins game.

He's the HC. It's all on him as far as I'm concerned. And you have this fantastic way of making things seem to be anyone elses fault except the person you should blame. It isn't Cassel, it's the playcalling! It isn't Haley, it's the playcalling!

Sooner or later it'll have to be someones fault.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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This is crazy talk. That is all there is. We should have had a 6-10, 7-9 kind of season, and that is where we are headed. This in spite of a vastly tougher schedule, and a raft of serious injuries. Haley has done a fine job this season.

J
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Injuries are to blame for the constant playcalling issues during games, where we can't get a play in? Or being completely unprepared for the first few weeks of the season?

Come on. There are a ton of issues here and it all starts at the top. And this is coming from someone who REALLY likes Haley.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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They're not going to clean house. That's not Pioli's style. They've built a strong base and have a lot of talent. It's tough to imagine the team dumping Haley. If they do, they'll bring in someone who can pick up right where he left off without a huge transition period.
Huh!!!??? You might want to ask someone in the Chiefs scouting department about that. Pioli cleaned house, fired everyone from the previous regime. Or for that matter, anyone in the Chiefs front office although you'll have to do some looking to find someone who was there before Pioli. New president, new CFO, etc. The purge just keeps going. In January there were reports that at least 11 employees were known to be fired by the club. That included the 29-year employee Brenda Sniezek who was the director of community relations. Also released was director of logistics Ken Blume, who has been with the organization for 25+ years. Joining them on the waiver wire was associate director of public relations Pete Moris, an employee since 1994.

Others who found themselves unemployed were: Evelyn Bray, accounting manager; Heather Coleman, stadium operations personnel director, Pam Johnson, administrative assistant-finance; Lisa Siebern, player development assistant; Tom Stephens, creative services manager and three members of the team’s sales department.

Whether good or bad, cleaning house does appear to be part of the Pioli Style.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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I do not believe in the firing of Todd Haley. Clean house again, start over again, start from scratch again, no thank you.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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I guess it would be better to have one of the worst offenses in the NFL and not score a TD in how many possessions?

I'm sorry, but for an "offensive genius" his offense is pretty ******.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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They have every right to do so though, but as a fan and someone who for the most part understands what it takes to build a team I don't think it is a logical step in the process.
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:14 PM    (permalink
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Why not fire Pioli too then? Get rid of RAC, get rid of Pleasant, get rid of Zorn, Thomas, Carthon, etc. Hire Cowher and get Keith Butler as DC and bring in someone like Tom Clements as OC.
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Originally Posted by Hermstheman83 View Post
What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I like Todd Haley a lot but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was fired.
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Old 12-06-2011, 10:16 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bored of education View Post
Why not fire Pioli too then? Get rid of RAC, get rid of Pleasant, get rid of Zorn, Thomas, Carthon, etc. Hire Cowher and get Keith Butler as DC and bring in someone like Tom Clements as OC.
Sign me up for this, though I don't really think Pioli deserves to be fired.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:04 PM    (permalink
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You guys are nuts. Haley isn't getting fired and I'll guarantee it. The guy has done something every season since he got here..do more with less. Most Chiefs fans expected 7-9 to 8-8 this season. We're at 5 wins and could possibly be 6-10 without our core players.

It's ridiculous to fire him after this season. The guy has a 3rd string QB and RB.

Pioli isn't a knee-jerk reaction person and he's said that countless times.
Haley has molded DJ, Bowe, Charles and Albert into the players they are today.He makes players better and that's why he's a great coach.

The reason the team can't do well on offense is because of the QB. Well who brought in Cassel? There ya go.

Not even Sean Payton could make this offense work right now. I think Pioli gives Haley another year to work through it.
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Pioli gives Haley another year to "work through it" but won't draft a QB, so Haley won't get to start "his guy" at QB and the offense will suck dick again. It's a vicious cycle. What is the point?

I really had no problem with Haley as a head coach, but he has done some really stupid and questionable things this year. He better learn from it fast or there is seriously no point to any of this.
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Last edited by vidae : 12-06-2011 at 11:31 PM.
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