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View Poll Results: Which QB do you take with the 2nd pick in Round 1?
Matt Barkley 51 59.30%
Robert Griffin III 35 40.70%
Another QB. Neither of the above is in my top 2. 0 0%
Voters: 86. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-13-2011, 08:58 PM    (permalink
SickwithIt1010
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Here I completely disagree. Barkley like all pro prospects have been working hard all their lives to achieve a goal of being a professional football player. If he goes #2 in the draft or #3, the salary difference under the rookie salary cap is relatively small and it puts him 1 year closer to being a very high paid pro.

If he returns to school and I've heard rumours, he likes the college lifestyle(USC has a reputation), and risks his career to a season ending injury, pro scouts and GM's will question his maturity, it was the main reason Leinert dropped in the draft after going back to school.

The way the scouts and GM's view the move is simple, 'what are your goals in life' 'how hard will you work to achieve those goals' and finally what are your priorities? Returning to school so you can possibly win a National Championship vs turning pro and getting on with the serious things in your life, is a no brainer. The mature athlete knows what needs to be done and any divergence from the main goal of life for some fluff, really doesn't impress scouts and GM's.

Not only does he risk serious injury in returning to school, he risks turning off a lot of teams who will question the move and he will be put under a fine microscope all next season where everything will be questioned.
Sure, if he completely can handle all that pressure, remain injury free and show scouts and GM's a sizable progression as a QB, all may turnout well. But if there is a slip anywhere along the line, he is going to pay dearly in his pocketbook on draft day.
He's nothing like Leinart so stop comparing the 2.
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
Jesus, really?

Get out of here with that ****.
Wilson > Barkley and RG3
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Wilson > Barkley and RG3
All of Petrino's QB's put up huge number, and look the part...


...whats different about Wilson?
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Originally Posted by 49erNation85 View Post
I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-13-2011, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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Barkley. I think he breaks the USC mold.
It's amazing how bad of a rep USC has gotten. What other school continuously turns out NFL QBs like they have? Sanchez, Cassel, Leinart, and Palmer are all either starters or backups. Most college teams don't have 4 backups on NFL teams, let alone 3 starters.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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If he returns to school ... and risks his career to a season ending injury
I laugh every time I see this.

There have not been 5 players to lose their ability to play football because they missed a season.

Semantically, you can't lose a career to a season ending injury. It would be called a career ending injury. But when you call it a career ending injury, you are left with the question "What is a career ending injury?" and the answer is something almost as likely to happen driving in town as playing football.

QBs don't lose their careers like that. Chad Pennington was made of glass and is a rare exception [and even he lost it in the pros].
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SickwithIt1010 View Post
All of Petrino's QB's put up huge number, and look the part...


...whats different about Wilson?
Are you making a point off what you've watched of Wilson and Arkansas this year or are you just making baseless assumptions? You don't see me sh*tting on Barkley just because he's a USC QB.

People call Petrino's offense QB friendly because it puts up yards but that's because it's the most aggressive downfield passing attack in college football. No offense in college football demands more from their QB from an arm-strength standpoint. Neither Barkley or Griffin have the skill set to operate that offense at the level Wilson did this year.
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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People call Petrino's offense QB friendly because it puts up yards but that's because it's the most aggressive downfield passing attack in college football. No offense in college football demands more from their QB from an arm-strength standpoint. Neither Barkley or Griffin have the skill set to operate that offense at the level Wilson did this year.
Not sure about that. Wilson and Mallet throw(and threw) to open spaces just as often as I've seen Griffin and Barkley do as such. Not using that as a knock, but I defiantly don't think that being successful in a Petrino offense says anything more than coming out of a USC-type one does. You can make the case that Wilson has better tools than Barkley, but I don't think it's quite that cut and dry about systems.



....and I'm not sure system even means anything anymore. Certainly not as much as it used to, it would seem.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:08 PM    (permalink
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Not sure about that. Wilson and Mallet throw(and threw) to open spaces just as often as I've seen Griffin and Barkley do as such. Not using that as a knock, but I defiantly don't think that being successful in a Petrino offense says anything more than coming out of a USC-type one does. You can make the case that Wilson has better tools than Barkley, but I don't think it's quite that cut and dry about systems.



....and I'm not sure system even means anything anymore. Certainly not as much as it used to, it would seem.
I agree that systems don't matter which is why I thought it was dumb to hold Petrino's offense against Wilson. It's all about evaluating skill sets and not college system/stats. If you're curious why I think so highly of him, click here.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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I've been following Barkley pretty intently since he was a freshman at Mater Dei. One of my friends played receiver at Mater Dei and was a year above him. He told me in his locker there was a list that said "1. God 2. Family 3. Team 4. Me". He does not have the same mentality that Leinart and Sanchez had. I have no idea where you guys got that he's a "USC quarterback so he loves to party".

One thing that he had both freshman years (Mater Dei and USC) was a good running game. At Mater Dei he had Ahmed Mokhtar who was All-County when Barkley was a freshman and Carroll was very run heavy when Barkley was a freshman. But also going for Barkley is that he's been in a pro style offense for the past 7+ years (possibly including junior all-american football).

I honestly was very doubtful of him when he put up average numbers his senior year but he has done nothing but impress me in his development from his freshman year at USC to this year. His accuracy has gotten way better and his poise in the pocket is very good. He's unstoppable on play action and play action rollouts.
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Old 12-14-2011, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Robert Griffin, quite easily too. I like Barkley quite a bit too, but Griffin really sets himself a part as a player with his unique combination of athleticism, accuracy(particuarly on the deep ball and ball placement on the out route), pocket pressence, and intagibles. Griffin is as good of a pure passer is in the country with a great natural feel for the passing game. That's usually limited to guys who are statue-esque in the pocket. You could throw out his athleticism and mobility and still have a top flight prospect. Griffin's ability to be a legitimate quarterback in addition to being a top flight athlete translates very well to where the NFL is headed, where the ability to extend the play just takes another thing away from passing defenses who have enough to worry about already. Griffin still has a ton of room for improvement as well....even though he's not a landslide that some think he is right now either. His floor is a lot higher than some people seem to think, and with his top flight intaginbles and work ethic, you've got to think he's a pretty safe bet to continue to improve.

It seems RGIII is making his way through a slight backlack peroid though. A lot of that has to do with the perception that he's a new commodity, when in reality he's been on the radar since his freshmen year. Between injuries and a Baylor program that has historically(and presently, something Griffin doesn't seem to be getting recongition for anywhere but with Heismen voters) I can see how he's flown under the radar until recently, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been doing the kinds of things that you want to see from a first round pick. Some of the stuff I've seen people saying to discredit Griffin I just flat out haven't seen having watched every game I could of his for four years(although one was quite short).

None of this is to say that Barkley isn't a quality pro prospect. Quite the opposite, even. In some drafts, I could even see him being a top five type player. The board just doesn't break that way this year though, between Luck's iron-clad grip on the top spot and Griffin's ability. In the end, the fact that Sanchez and Leinart hurt Barkley a little bit. Is that fair? We'll have to see when he gets to the NFL. I personally think he's a pretty good bet to be better than those two, but when you write the scouting report, they all sound very similar. Barkley seems to have a much better work ethic than Leinart did...and when you watch him it's hard to see him being as bad as Mark Sanchez has been at times in the NFL. He's certainly proved a lot more at the college level than Sanchez ever did.
My exact thoughts.
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Old 12-14-2011, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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I agree that systems don't matter which is why I thought it was dumb to hold Petrino's offense against Wilson. It's all about evaluating skill sets and not college system/stats. If you're curious why I think so highly of him, click here.
You know we usually see eye to eye Tack. I'm not knocking Wilson, In fact he would probably be in the top of round one if he came out this year. HOwever so would Barkley. Can Wilson overtake Barkley if both came back next year? Yes, but as of right now I have to put Barkley over him
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Old 12-14-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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Not sure about that. Wilson and Mallet throw(and threw) to open spaces just as often as I've seen Griffin and Barkley do as such. Not using that as a knock, but I defiantly don't think that being successful in a Petrino offense says anything more than coming out of a USC-type one does. You can make the case that Wilson has better tools than Barkley, but I don't think it's quite that cut and dry about systems.



....and I'm not sure system even means anything anymore. Certainly not as much as it used to, it would seem.
It really doesn't. I'd be willing to bet a sizeable amount of money that, if someone charted it, you'd find that Barkley had as many WR screen calls and two-man/either-or reads than any QB in college football this year. Even the "spreadzzzz" guys like RG3. It's a very simple passing offense.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Not sure about that. Wilson and Mallet throw(and threw) to open spaces just as often as I've seen Griffin and Barkley do as such. Not using that as a knock, but I defiantly don't think that being successful in a Petrino offense says anything more than coming out of a USC-type one does. You can make the case that Wilson has better tools than Barkley, but I don't think it's quite that cut and dry about systems.



....and I'm not sure system even means anything anymore. Certainly not as much as it used to, it would seem.

Sure, it means a lot to pro scouts just not the part most people want to give it.
Montee Ball will have to convince pro scouts that he has skills necessary to be a pro RB. In his system in college, he has an OL that puts him at the second level routinely without having to use any speed or quickness to get there. They will want to see him away from that system before they will give him much of a grade for the upcoming draft.

Ditto, for Wilson, first they will want to see an above average arm, then they will want to see his intangibles and determine if he is mentally tough. He will have to demonstrate away from Petrino's system that he has all the qualities you look for in a QB. His college stats will not count a whole lot in his favour, only what he does in the post season.

Once he establishes his level in each of these areas, then pro scouts will go back over his film to see how he utilized them.

Petrino has demonstrated over and over that he can get stats out of mediocre talent. Mallett was the exception now Wilson must prove once again that he has Mallett type talent and isn't the usual QB who plays for Petrino.

If a prospect comes from a system type HC, it won't count against him or for him as long as he can demontrate pro abilities and intangibles away from that system in the post season. once a prospect desplays real skill away from his college system, no scout or GM will care what system he played in.
There always comes a point in the draft process where the only thing scouts and GM's care about is how you use or have used your talent now that the post season has clearly defined that talent level away from your team's system.
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Old 12-15-2011, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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There's something really, really off putting for me about RG3. I think it's his funky throwing motion and the fact that he looks uncoordinated when he runs. He just looks like an awkward athlete to me. He also looks really frail.
I was on board with all this coming into the season. I just couldn't buy what everyone was selling with him because it didn't look right. But when you put up a year like that backed by a still pretty good resume before that, you just have to admit that he's getting it done. This is where that one guy who always posts the picture of Philip Rivers' throwing motion in college chimes in (although maybe he's taking this year off given what's gone on in San Diego)

And, as far as Iamcandian's thing about RG3 standing out in interviews - I think he actually has the most natural charisma in the class, including Luck.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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And, as far as Iamcandian's thing about RG3 standing out in interviews - I think he actually has the most natural charisma in the class, including Luck.
Very much so - the guy carries himself SO well.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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I was on board with all this coming into the season. I just couldn't buy what everyone was selling with him because it didn't look right. But when you put up a year like that backed by a still pretty good resume before that, you just have to admit that he's getting it done. This is where that one guy who always posts the picture of Philip Rivers' throwing motion in college chimes in (although maybe he's taking this year off given what's gone on in San Diego)

And, as far as Iamcandian's thing about RG3 standing out in interviews - I think he actually has the most natural charisma in the class, including Luck.
I forgot who said it, somebody on NFL Network, but he said when you meet Luck, you go away thinking that he is super special just as I have gotten that feeling from RG111. They describe Luck as a man among boys even as a junior in college. I don't think Luck comes out second best in any interview, tied with RG111 maybe but hardly second best.
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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I voted Barkley for now but it's really close. I'm a huge HUGE RGIII fan. In the end guys like Barkley have succeeded more often than guys like Griffin in the NFL. I love his release and his intangeables. Seems like the type who can become an elite passer in the NFL despite not being a great athlete and not being really mobile or having a cannon arm. I really keep flip flopping back and forth over which one I would take first.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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28 people are wayyyy off base. Barkley is the truth, there is no element of 'project' whatsoever here.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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This is where that one guy who always posts the picture of Philip Rivers' throwing motion in college chimes in (although maybe he's taking this year off given what's gone on in San Diego)
Random fun fact, Rivers is about to become just the 3rd player in NFL history to pass for 4,000+ yards in 4 consecutive seasons.
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Old 12-15-2011, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I am not sure if it is polite to vote in your own poll but I chose Matt Barkley. I think his game adjusts better to the NFL than RG III.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Wilson > Barkley and RG3
Wilson who? That 5'11" guy in Wisconsin? He won't even be a starter in the NFL. There are no starters in the NFL that small and Brees being the clsoest is simply a freak when it comes to QB'ing at the NFL level.

It's Barkley over RG3. Wilson is a non-factor.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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Wilson who? That 5'11" guy in Wisconsin? He won't even be a starter in the NFL. There are no starters in the NFL that small and Brees being the clsoest is simply a freak when it comes to QB'ing at the NFL level.

It's Barkley over RG3. Wilson is a non-factor.
Tyler from Arkansas.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Tyler from Arkansas.
Ok. That makes more sense.
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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We can close this now, and open another next year, if needed. Barkley may well be the #1 pick in 2013.

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Old 12-24-2011, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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I think Barkely is just as good Luck... Therefore, I like Barkley over Griffin. Yes, Barkley is going back to school, but I still don't see why we can't debate him with the other QBs.

I know the Luck bandwagon has been at an all-time high for the past year, but I wouldn't bat an eye if I'm sitting at #2 and Barkley is available (obviously can't now, but still). Griffin should volt into a top 4-7 pick given my calculations, up from the 7-12 range imo.

If Barkley stayed, this draft class would be the best in a decade imo. I think it could have been a little similar to the 04 draft (think it was 04) with Eli, Rivers, and Big Ben as 3 franchise QBs.

I'm not real high on the other QBs as much, although I haven't watched or read a whole lot on them.

I love Griffin's mobility obviously, but it will be interesting to see if he is able to slide around in an NFL pocket and find WRs downfield instead of just using his speed to get away from defenders (can always use a bit of this as well, but will be a lot tougher as he doesn't have Vick's speed or Cams power running the ball). I think he is a bit overrated at this point, but I could certainly be wrong as he has a lot of quality skills for the position.
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